| [_strat_] Monday, June 08, 2009 5:03:25 AM | |
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Hmm... Well, as I said, I am against capital punishment. Heres why: justice is justice and revenge is revenge. Capital punishment is about revenge, not justice. Sorry, but I dont see how or why should we support the "eye for an eye" logic, and think of ourselves as a modern and at least a remotely tolerant society.
The thing about killing a convict is first of all that it only serves to appease the public. He killed = he was killed. But thats all. Besides that, death penalty doesnt serve anything at all. If you keep him/her in prison for life, and get him to work, then we have something. Maybe put a part of his earnings to the family of the victim? All that fails if you simply strap him on an electric chair, to the amusement of sadistic cop thugs.
That, and I already feel uncomfortable enough knowing that the only armed force in the country is under state control. To have state decide who lives and who dies, hell to have anybody decide that, would be too much.
And there is the issue of certainty. I guess in certain cases it is clear beyond a shadow of a doubt who was the murderer. But in many cases it isnt. A couple of years ago we had a case, where a man was released from prison. He was charged with murder, and already served of some 20 years (I think), when new evidence came to light, and shown that he was innocent. Sure, he lost 20 years in prison, and that is terrible. But, if he was sentenced to death, what then? |
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| [ron h] Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:21:21 PM | |
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See HB, thwere's the cost of the pilot, fuel, co-pilot and a couple of ppl to push 'em out of the plain...too much trouble...a little rope and one good push and ta da no more murderer...
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:44:55 PM)| |  | Head banger wrote: | | yep. something could be learned from Iraq. I forget who said it, but the idea "give them flying lessons, take them up in a plane, toss them out without a parachute, and if they learn to fly on the way down, good for them!
| | | ronhartsell wrote: | | Capital Punishment in the States is a joke...Texas by far is the leader in executions each year...as comedian Ron White explains "Texas put in a speed lane for executions...if two or more see the murder happen and there is absolutely no doubt...")...they go straight to the front of the line...or something to that effect...otherwise they sit on death row for 15-20 years on our dime...wtf is that??? Hell, throw 'em off a cliff for all I care...especially convicted gangbangers who use fear and then murder...let 'em live a little as they're falling to their death's!!!
| | | Head banger wrote: | | I agree. the death penalty is highly underused. of course here its non existant.
| | | ronhartsell wrote: | | My 2 cents...Killing another Human Being under any circumstance other than in defense (of Country, self, of another person...)...basically cold blooded murder (pre-meditated or not) is the worst act one can perform against another and should be met with the same fate. There is no rehabilitating an individual who has freely done it at least once already. They may choose to not do it again and be a model citizen for the reat of their life, if given the chance...but as far as I'm concerened when it comes to human life, you only get one chance...no mulligans in my book...and it should come within 30 days of conviction, period!!
| | | ~ MG_Metalgoddess~ wrote: | | That I can agree on to re-pre-pare people for Society, when they are fit to be re-released in it... I know you have people in jail for stupid pety things... stealing, ect.. drugs are a huge problem, esp Crack,, but if those people can prove and be rehabilitated to be able to be productive in Society then I agee,,,
But some of them.... OMG.. It scares the hell out of me to think this Vince Lee guy could be released in as little as a year,, WTF??????
Violent repeat offenders, I have a small prob with.. LOL.... They are usually building themselves up to do a much bigger crime such as assault, ect... if they are showm a bigger way to reform themselves and really try too,, them they may be helped. But most of the people who commit the most hidious of the crimes, have been in and out of the jail system most of their lives...
| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Absolutely. The decapitation freak and Fritzl are two exapmles of people who, in my opinion, should stay behind bars for life. Working or not, just stay there.
I remember seeing a very interesting TV report from Iceland (I think it was Iceland), where they have a prison where they actualy let inmates out to go to work, and see their families. Of course, if they behave, and its only for the light cases, but it was said that it works surprisingly well. And they ahve to pay for their "stay" in the prison themselves.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | Exactly, make them feel usefull, make them used to working, and lessen their cost to society. They are not slaves, they are paying their debt. Work keeps them in condition to work, keeps the idea in their head, busy hands dont have as much time to get into trouble so less crime in prison. in this manner some sentances could be reduced, for minor things, and some basic skills can be learned. in time, the cost of law enforcement to society can be reduced, lowering taxes, benefiting the economy for all, so there is less poverty, which helps reduce crime. win win.
sure there are the ocasional ones who are too dangerous to let out anywhere for any reason, but at least 80% of prisoners are capable of working under supervision.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | If those whom are incarcerated were to prove their productivity to society, would it not be feasible, then, to somehow utilize their strengths by setting up work and labor camps to generate a pseudo penitentiary economy? By paying off their debt to society by being involved in much needed but costly programs such as infrastructure projects, housing and commercial development, snow removal, trash pick up, road repair, etc? All jurisdictions are lashing at out at the high price of wages, union dues, labor shortages, and work projects that never seem to have the necessary funding or manpower to take the architects blueprint past the developmental stages. But when you have a relatively young labor force sitting in a priosn cell for X amount of years, would it not be prudent, and cost effective, to use their time, skills, and ability to serve the populice by contributing to society in a productive manner? I'm certainly not insinuating slave labor. However, instead of locking them up, throwing away the key, and letting them sit, rot, and decay, then why not use their best years either physiclaly or mentally to effectually better the economy around them by invloving them directly in work. Not study, not weight training programs, and certainly not useless psychological imprisonment. Recall Shawshank Redemption? Any work that was available to the inmates was highly coveted. A man feels like a man when he is productive with either his hands or his mind. In this manner, the inmate can begin to pay his debt to society in a productive and impactful fashion. Any thoughts on this? a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Saturday, June 06, 2009 12:40:32 AM |
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| [ron h] Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:18:48 PM | |
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Hi Soy...my argument is strictly based on doing to them what they did to others vs. having to spend tax payer money supporting them 'til they die a natural death...I'm all for the Island you envision so long as they are on their own, can't get off and we send no support...if they can plant gardens and be self-sustaining, I'd go for that, if given the choice...but until that option comes along, I'd have to regress to my previous post...
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Soylentgreen4u a.k.a. theWOLFMAN from Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:52:30 PM)| | | Soylentgreen4u a.k.a. theWOLFMAN wrote: | | HOW ABOUT FOR THE FOLKS WHO DON'T SUPPORT EXECUTION,YOU SENTENCE THE MURDERERS,SERIAL KILLERS AND SUCH TO EXILE ON AN ISLAND,SIMILAR TO THE 'ESCAPE FROM NY' THINGY...YOU PUT 'EM IN THERE WITH THE SMOKERS,AND VOILA!....PROBLEM SOLVED,PLUS THEY GIVE SOMETHING BACK TO SOCIETY...
| | | ronhartsell wrote: | | My 2 cents...Killing another Human Being under any circumstance other than in defense (of Country, self, of another person...)...basically cold blooded murder (pre-meditated or not) is the worst act one can perform against another and should be met with the same fate. There is no rehabilitating an individual who has freely done it at least once already. They may choose to not do it again and be a model citizen for the reat of their life, if given the chance...but as far as I'm concerened when it comes to human life, you only get one chance...no mulligans in my book...and it should come within 30 days of conviction, period!!
| | | ~ MG_Metalgoddess~ wrote: | | That I can agree on to re-pre-pare people for Society, when they are fit to be re-released in it... I know you have people in jail for stupid pety things... stealing, ect.. drugs are a huge problem, esp Crack,, but if those people can prove and be rehabilitated to be able to be productive in Society then I agee,,,
But some of them.... OMG.. It scares the hell out of me to think this Vince Lee guy could be released in as little as a year,, WTF??????
Violent repeat offenders, I have a small prob with.. LOL.... They are usually building themselves up to do a much bigger crime such as assault, ect... if they are showm a bigger way to reform themselves and really try too,, them they may be helped. But most of the people who commit the most hidious of the crimes, have been in and out of the jail system most of their lives...
| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Absolutely. The decapitation freak and Fritzl are two exapmles of people who, in my opinion, should stay behind bars for life. Working or not, just stay there.
I remember seeing a very interesting TV report from Iceland (I think it was Iceland), where they have a prison where they actualy let inmates out to go to work, and see their families. Of course, if they behave, and its only for the light cases, but it was said that it works surprisingly well. And they ahve to pay for their "stay" in the prison themselves.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | Exactly, make them feel usefull, make them used to working, and lessen their cost to society. They are not slaves, they are paying their debt. Work keeps them in condition to work, keeps the idea in their head, busy hands dont have as much time to get into trouble so less crime in prison. in this manner some sentances could be reduced, for minor things, and some basic skills can be learned. in time, the cost of law enforcement to society can be reduced, lowering taxes, benefiting the economy for all, so there is less poverty, which helps reduce crime. win win.
sure there are the ocasional ones who are too dangerous to let out anywhere for any reason, but at least 80% of prisoners are capable of working under supervision.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | If those whom are incarcerated were to prove their productivity to society, would it not be feasible, then, to somehow utilize their strengths by setting up work and labor camps to generate a pseudo penitentiary economy? By paying off their debt to society by being involved in much needed but costly programs such as infrastructure projects, housing and commercial development, snow removal, trash pick up, road repair, etc? All jurisdictions are lashing at out at the high price of wages, union dues, labor shortages, and work projects that never seem to have the necessary funding or manpower to take the architects blueprint past the developmental stages. But when you have a relatively young labor force sitting in a priosn cell for X amount of years, would it not be prudent, and cost effective, to use their time, skills, and ability to serve the populice by contributing to society in a productive manner? I'm certainly not insinuating slave labor. However, instead of locking them up, throwing away the key, and letting them sit, rot, and decay, then why not use their best years either physiclaly or mentally to effectually better the economy around them by invloving them directly in work. Not study, not weight training programs, and certainly not useless psychological imprisonment. Recall Shawshank Redemption? Any work that was available to the inmates was highly coveted. A man feels like a man when he is productive with either his hands or his mind. In this manner, the inmate can begin to pay his debt to society in a productive and impactful fashion. Any thoughts on this? a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Saturday, June 06, 2009 12:40:32 AM |
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| [Soylentgreen4u] Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:52:30 PM | |
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HOW ABOUT FOR THE FOLKS WHO DON'T SUPPORT EXECUTION,YOU SENTENCE THE MURDERERS,SERIAL KILLERS AND SUCH TO EXILE ON AN ISLAND,SIMILAR TO THE 'ESCAPE FROM NY' THINGY...YOU PUT 'EM IN THERE WITH THE SMOKERS,AND VOILA!....PROBLEM SOLVED,PLUS THEY GIVE SOMETHING BACK TO SOCIETY...
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by ronhartsell from Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:17:47 PM)| | | ronhartsell wrote: | | My 2 cents...Killing another Human Being under any circumstance other than in defense (of Country, self, of another person...)...basically cold blooded murder (pre-meditated or not) is the worst act one can perform against another and should be met with the same fate. There is no rehabilitating an individual who has freely done it at least once already. They may choose to not do it again and be a model citizen for the reat of their life, if given the chance...but as far as I'm concerened when it comes to human life, you only get one chance...no mulligans in my book...and it should come within 30 days of conviction, period!!
| | | ~ MG_Metalgoddess~ wrote: | | That I can agree on to re-pre-pare people for Society, when they are fit to be re-released in it... I know you have people in jail for stupid pety things... stealing, ect.. drugs are a huge problem, esp Crack,, but if those people can prove and be rehabilitated to be able to be productive in Society then I agee,,,
But some of them.... OMG.. It scares the hell out of me to think this Vince Lee guy could be released in as little as a year,, WTF??????
Violent repeat offenders, I have a small prob with.. LOL.... They are usually building themselves up to do a much bigger crime such as assault, ect... if they are showm a bigger way to reform themselves and really try too,, them they may be helped. But most of the people who commit the most hidious of the crimes, have been in and out of the jail system most of their lives...
| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Absolutely. The decapitation freak and Fritzl are two exapmles of people who, in my opinion, should stay behind bars for life. Working or not, just stay there.
I remember seeing a very interesting TV report from Iceland (I think it was Iceland), where they have a prison where they actualy let inmates out to go to work, and see their families. Of course, if they behave, and its only for the light cases, but it was said that it works surprisingly well. And they ahve to pay for their "stay" in the prison themselves.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | Exactly, make them feel usefull, make them used to working, and lessen their cost to society. They are not slaves, they are paying their debt. Work keeps them in condition to work, keeps the idea in their head, busy hands dont have as much time to get into trouble so less crime in prison. in this manner some sentances could be reduced, for minor things, and some basic skills can be learned. in time, the cost of law enforcement to society can be reduced, lowering taxes, benefiting the economy for all, so there is less poverty, which helps reduce crime. win win.
sure there are the ocasional ones who are too dangerous to let out anywhere for any reason, but at least 80% of prisoners are capable of working under supervision.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | If those whom are incarcerated were to prove their productivity to society, would it not be feasible, then, to somehow utilize their strengths by setting up work and labor camps to generate a pseudo penitentiary economy? By paying off their debt to society by being involved in much needed but costly programs such as infrastructure projects, housing and commercial development, snow removal, trash pick up, road repair, etc? All jurisdictions are lashing at out at the high price of wages, union dues, labor shortages, and work projects that never seem to have the necessary funding or manpower to take the architects blueprint past the developmental stages. But when you have a relatively young labor force sitting in a priosn cell for X amount of years, would it not be prudent, and cost effective, to use their time, skills, and ability to serve the populice by contributing to society in a productive manner? I'm certainly not insinuating slave labor. However, instead of locking them up, throwing away the key, and letting them sit, rot, and decay, then why not use their best years either physiclaly or mentally to effectually better the economy around them by invloving them directly in work. Not study, not weight training programs, and certainly not useless psychological imprisonment. Recall Shawshank Redemption? Any work that was available to the inmates was highly coveted. A man feels like a man when he is productive with either his hands or his mind. In this manner, the inmate can begin to pay his debt to society in a productive and impactful fashion. Any thoughts on this? a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Saturday, June 06, 2009 12:40:32 AM |
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| [Head banger] Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:44:55 PM | |
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yep. something could be learned from Iraq. I forget who said it, but the idea "give them flying lessons, take them up in a plane, toss them out without a parachute, and if they learn to fly on the way down, good for them!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by ronhartsell from Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:32:58 PM)| | | ronhartsell wrote: | | Capital Punishment in the States is a joke...Texas by far is the leader in executions each year...as comedian Ron White explains "Texas put in a speed lane for executions...if two or more see the murder happen and there is absolutely no doubt...")...they go straight to the front of the line...or something to that effect...otherwise they sit on death row for 15-20 years on our dime...wtf is that??? Hell, throw 'em off a cliff for all I care...especially convicted gangbangers who use fear and then murder...let 'em live a little as they're falling to their death's!!!
| | | Head banger wrote: | | I agree. the death penalty is highly underused. of course here its non existant.
| | | ronhartsell wrote: | | My 2 cents...Killing another Human Being under any circumstance other than in defense (of Country, self, of another person...)...basically cold blooded murder (pre-meditated or not) is the worst act one can perform against another and should be met with the same fate. There is no rehabilitating an individual who has freely done it at least once already. They may choose to not do it again and be a model citizen for the reat of their life, if given the chance...but as far as I'm concerened when it comes to human life, you only get one chance...no mulligans in my book...and it should come within 30 days of conviction, period!!
| | | ~ MG_Metalgoddess~ wrote: | | That I can agree on to re-pre-pare people for Society, when they are fit to be re-released in it... I know you have people in jail for stupid pety things... stealing, ect.. drugs are a huge problem, esp Crack,, but if those people can prove and be rehabilitated to be able to be productive in Society then I agee,,,
But some of them.... OMG.. It scares the hell out of me to think this Vince Lee guy could be released in as little as a year,, WTF??????
Violent repeat offenders, I have a small prob with.. LOL.... They are usually building themselves up to do a much bigger crime such as assault, ect... if they are showm a bigger way to reform themselves and really try too,, them they may be helped. But most of the people who commit the most hidious of the crimes, have been in and out of the jail system most of their lives...
| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Absolutely. The decapitation freak and Fritzl are two exapmles of people who, in my opinion, should stay behind bars for life. Working or not, just stay there.
I remember seeing a very interesting TV report from Iceland (I think it was Iceland), where they have a prison where they actualy let inmates out to go to work, and see their families. Of course, if they behave, and its only for the light cases, but it was said that it works surprisingly well. And they ahve to pay for their "stay" in the prison themselves.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | Exactly, make them feel usefull, make them used to working, and lessen their cost to society. They are not slaves, they are paying their debt. Work keeps them in condition to work, keeps the idea in their head, busy hands dont have as much time to get into trouble so less crime in prison. in this manner some sentances could be reduced, for minor things, and some basic skills can be learned. in time, the cost of law enforcement to society can be reduced, lowering taxes, benefiting the economy for all, so there is less poverty, which helps reduce crime. win win.
sure there are the ocasional ones who are too dangerous to let out anywhere for any reason, but at least 80% of prisoners are capable of working under supervision.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | If those whom are incarcerated were to prove their productivity to society, would it not be feasible, then, to somehow utilize their strengths by setting up work and labor camps to generate a pseudo penitentiary economy? By paying off their debt to society by being involved in much needed but costly programs such as infrastructure projects, housing and commercial development, snow removal, trash pick up, road repair, etc? All jurisdictions are lashing at out at the high price of wages, union dues, labor shortages, and work projects that never seem to have the necessary funding or manpower to take the architects blueprint past the developmental stages. But when you have a relatively young labor force sitting in a priosn cell for X amount of years, would it not be prudent, and cost effective, to use their time, skills, and ability to serve the populice by contributing to society in a productive manner? I'm certainly not insinuating slave labor. However, instead of locking them up, throwing away the key, and letting them sit, rot, and decay, then why not use their best years either physiclaly or mentally to effectually better the economy around them by invloving them directly in work. Not study, not weight training programs, and certainly not useless psychological imprisonment. Recall Shawshank Redemption? Any work that was available to the inmates was highly coveted. A man feels like a man when he is productive with either his hands or his mind. In this manner, the inmate can begin to pay his debt to society in a productive and impactful fashion. Any thoughts on this? a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Saturday, June 06, 2009 12:40:32 AM |
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| [ron h] Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:32:58 PM | |
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Capital Punishment in the States is a joke...Texas by far is the leader in executions each year...as comedian Ron White explains "Texas put in a speed lane for executions...if two or more see the murder happen and there is absolutely no doubt...")...they go straight to the front of the line...or something to that effect...otherwise they sit on death row for 15-20 years on our dime...wtf is that??? Hell, throw 'em off a cliff for all I care...especially convicted gangbangers who use fear and then murder...let 'em live a little as they're falling to their death's!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:55:58 PM)| | | Head banger wrote: | | I agree. the death penalty is highly underused. of course here its non existant.
| | | ronhartsell wrote: | | My 2 cents...Killing another Human Being under any circumstance other than in defense (of Country, self, of another person...)...basically cold blooded murder (pre-meditated or not) is the worst act one can perform against another and should be met with the same fate. There is no rehabilitating an individual who has freely done it at least once already. They may choose to not do it again and be a model citizen for the reat of their life, if given the chance...but as far as I'm concerened when it comes to human life, you only get one chance...no mulligans in my book...and it should come within 30 days of conviction, period!!
| | | ~ MG_Metalgoddess~ wrote: | | That I can agree on to re-pre-pare people for Society, when they are fit to be re-released in it... I know you have people in jail for stupid pety things... stealing, ect.. drugs are a huge problem, esp Crack,, but if those people can prove and be rehabilitated to be able to be productive in Society then I agee,,,
But some of them.... OMG.. It scares the hell out of me to think this Vince Lee guy could be released in as little as a year,, WTF??????
Violent repeat offenders, I have a small prob with.. LOL.... They are usually building themselves up to do a much bigger crime such as assault, ect... if they are showm a bigger way to reform themselves and really try too,, them they may be helped. But most of the people who commit the most hidious of the crimes, have been in and out of the jail system most of their lives...
| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Absolutely. The decapitation freak and Fritzl are two exapmles of people who, in my opinion, should stay behind bars for life. Working or not, just stay there.
I remember seeing a very interesting TV report from Iceland (I think it was Iceland), where they have a prison where they actualy let inmates out to go to work, and see their families. Of course, if they behave, and its only for the light cases, but it was said that it works surprisingly well. And they ahve to pay for their "stay" in the prison themselves.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | Exactly, make them feel usefull, make them used to working, and lessen their cost to society. They are not slaves, they are paying their debt. Work keeps them in condition to work, keeps the idea in their head, busy hands dont have as much time to get into trouble so less crime in prison. in this manner some sentances could be reduced, for minor things, and some basic skills can be learned. in time, the cost of law enforcement to society can be reduced, lowering taxes, benefiting the economy for all, so there is less poverty, which helps reduce crime. win win.
sure there are the ocasional ones who are too dangerous to let out anywhere for any reason, but at least 80% of prisoners are capable of working under supervision.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | If those whom are incarcerated were to prove their productivity to society, would it not be feasible, then, to somehow utilize their strengths by setting up work and labor camps to generate a pseudo penitentiary economy? By paying off their debt to society by being involved in much needed but costly programs such as infrastructure projects, housing and commercial development, snow removal, trash pick up, road repair, etc? All jurisdictions are lashing at out at the high price of wages, union dues, labor shortages, and work projects that never seem to have the necessary funding or manpower to take the architects blueprint past the developmental stages. But when you have a relatively young labor force sitting in a priosn cell for X amount of years, would it not be prudent, and cost effective, to use their time, skills, and ability to serve the populice by contributing to society in a productive manner? I'm certainly not insinuating slave labor. However, instead of locking them up, throwing away the key, and letting them sit, rot, and decay, then why not use their best years either physiclaly or mentally to effectually better the economy around them by invloving them directly in work. Not study, not weight training programs, and certainly not useless psychological imprisonment. Recall Shawshank Redemption? Any work that was available to the inmates was highly coveted. A man feels like a man when he is productive with either his hands or his mind. In this manner, the inmate can begin to pay his debt to society in a productive and impactful fashion. Any thoughts on this? a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Saturday, June 06, 2009 12:40:32 AM |
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| [ron h] Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:27:07 PM | |
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I'm sorry Spapad, I didn't mean to say you did...it's just a question to anyone...how can convicted felons think they have morals and who really cares?? I know they look down on rapists and child molesters the way law abiding ppl do, and what they do to them in the system...but that doesn't make me feel any better or safer...if anything it shows the fine line between controling ones anger and not being able to that separates us from the murderers...we control ours and they didn't...I don't thank them for what they do to the one's not in their 'class' because I wish someone would do it to them as well instead of wasting more and more tax payer money by keeping them all alive...it is money better spent on kid's and school's and medicine for those that have a chance and obey the law...
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by spapad from Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:37:50 PM)| | | spapad wrote: | | Never said they were right Ron, it's just even killers have a code, and they weed out the ones they feel unnecessary to be in their "class" Sick to it's core, but they do have a code.
| | | ronhartsell wrote: | | I've often wondered about that Spapad...morality among felon's...wtf is that??...I know you can tell me all about it, and I'm sure I know what you do about it...but wtf??
| | | spapad wrote: | | Believe it or not most stone cold killers dispise child molesters which J. Dahmer was, hence the end of his life. (Quoting Message by ~ MG_Metalgoddess~ from Saturday, June 06, 2009 3:49:31 PM)
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~ MG_Metalgoddess~ wrote: |
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I couldnt agree with more!!!!!! Some-one will prob take care of him in time,,,, just like jeffrey dahmer...
Dahmer was cleaning a bathroom in a prison and one of the prisoners, that allready had a life sentence,, unscrewed a pipe from the sink and smashed his head in. I Call it KARMA.....
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vince lee is a perfect candidate for the death penalty. what good is keeping him around, never mind letting him out?
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~ MG_Metalgoddess~ wrote: |
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That I can agree on to re-pre-pare people for Society, when they are fit to be re-released in it... I know you have people in jail for stupid pety things... stealing, ect.. drugs are a huge problem, esp Crack,, but if those people can prove and be rehabilitated to be able to be productive in Society then I agee,,,
But some of them.... OMG.. It scares the hell out of me to think this Vince Lee guy could be released in as little as a year,, WTF??????
Violent repeat offenders, I have a small prob with.. LOL.... They are usually building themselves up to do a much bigger crime such as assault, ect... if they are showm a bigger way to reform themselves and really try too,, them they may be helped. But most of the people who commit the most hidious of the crimes, have been in and out of the jail system most of their lives...
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_strat_ wrote: |
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Absolutely. The decapitation freak and Fritzl are two exapmles of people who, in my opinion, should stay behind bars for life. Working or not, just stay there.
I remember seeing a very interesting TV report from Iceland (I think it was Iceland), where they have a prison where they actualy let inmates out to go to work, and see their families. Of course, if they behave, and its only for the light cases, but it was said that it works surprisingly well. And they ahve to pay for their "stay" in the prison themselves.
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Head banger wrote: |
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Exactly, make them feel usefull, make them used to working, and lessen their cost to society. They are not slaves, they are paying their debt. Work keeps them in condition to work, keeps the idea in their head, busy hands dont have as much time to get into trouble so less crime in prison. in this manner some sentances could be reduced, for minor things, and some basic skills can be learned. in time, the cost of law enforcement to society can be reduced, lowering taxes, benefiting the economy for all, so there is less poverty, which helps reduce crime. win win.
sure there are the ocasional ones who are too dangerous to let out anywhere for any reason, but at least 80% of prisoners are capable of working under supervision.
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BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: |
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| If those whom are incarcerated were to prove their productivity to society, would it not be feasible, then, to somehow utilize their strengths by setting up work and labor camps to generate a pseudo penitentiary economy? By paying off their debt to society by being involved in much needed but costly programs such as infrastructure projects, housing and commercial development, snow removal, trash pick up, road repair, etc? All jurisdictions are lashing at out at the high price of wages, union dues, labor shortages, and work projects that never seem to have the necessary funding or manpower to take the architects blueprint past the developmental stages. But when you have a relatively young labor force sitting in a priosn cell for X amount of years, would it not be prudent, and cost effective, to use their time, skills, and ability to serve the populice by contributing to society in a productive manner? I'm certainly not insinuating slave labor. However, instead of locking them up, throwing away the key, and letting them sit, rot, and decay, then why not use their best years either physiclaly or mentally to effectually better the economy around them by invloving them directly in work. Not study, not weight training programs, and certainly not useless psychological imprisonment. Recall Shawshank Redemption? Any work that was available to the inmates was highly coveted. A man feels like a man when he is productive with either his hands or his mind. In this manner, the inmate can begin to pay his debt to society in a productive and impactful fashion. Any thoughts on this? a. Hammerstein Edited at: Saturday, June 06, 2009 12:40:32 AM |
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Edited at: Sunday, June 07, 2009 7:28:05 PM |
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| [Head banger] Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:55:58 PM | |
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I agree. the death penalty is highly underused. of course here its non existant.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by ronhartsell from Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:17:47 PM)| | | ronhartsell wrote: | | My 2 cents...Killing another Human Being under any circumstance other than in defense (of Country, self, of another person...)...basically cold blooded murder (pre-meditated or not) is the worst act one can perform against another and should be met with the same fate. There is no rehabilitating an individual who has freely done it at least once already. They may choose to not do it again and be a model citizen for the reat of their life, if given the chance...but as far as I'm concerened when it comes to human life, you only get one chance...no mulligans in my book...and it should come within 30 days of conviction, period!!
| | | ~ MG_Metalgoddess~ wrote: | | That I can agree on to re-pre-pare people for Society, when they are fit to be re-released in it... I know you have people in jail for stupid pety things... stealing, ect.. drugs are a huge problem, esp Crack,, but if those people can prove and be rehabilitated to be able to be productive in Society then I agee,,,
But some of them.... OMG.. It scares the hell out of me to think this Vince Lee guy could be released in as little as a year,, WTF??????
Violent repeat offenders, I have a small prob with.. LOL.... They are usually building themselves up to do a much bigger crime such as assault, ect... if they are showm a bigger way to reform themselves and really try too,, them they may be helped. But most of the people who commit the most hidious of the crimes, have been in and out of the jail system most of their lives...
| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Absolutely. The decapitation freak and Fritzl are two exapmles of people who, in my opinion, should stay behind bars for life. Working or not, just stay there.
I remember seeing a very interesting TV report from Iceland (I think it was Iceland), where they have a prison where they actualy let inmates out to go to work, and see their families. Of course, if they behave, and its only for the light cases, but it was said that it works surprisingly well. And they ahve to pay for their "stay" in the prison themselves.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | Exactly, make them feel usefull, make them used to working, and lessen their cost to society. They are not slaves, they are paying their debt. Work keeps them in condition to work, keeps the idea in their head, busy hands dont have as much time to get into trouble so less crime in prison. in this manner some sentances could be reduced, for minor things, and some basic skills can be learned. in time, the cost of law enforcement to society can be reduced, lowering taxes, benefiting the economy for all, so there is less poverty, which helps reduce crime. win win.
sure there are the ocasional ones who are too dangerous to let out anywhere for any reason, but at least 80% of prisoners are capable of working under supervision.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | If those whom are incarcerated were to prove their productivity to society, would it not be feasible, then, to somehow utilize their strengths by setting up work and labor camps to generate a pseudo penitentiary economy? By paying off their debt to society by being involved in much needed but costly programs such as infrastructure projects, housing and commercial development, snow removal, trash pick up, road repair, etc? All jurisdictions are lashing at out at the high price of wages, union dues, labor shortages, and work projects that never seem to have the necessary funding or manpower to take the architects blueprint past the developmental stages. But when you have a relatively young labor force sitting in a priosn cell for X amount of years, would it not be prudent, and cost effective, to use their time, skills, and ability to serve the populice by contributing to society in a productive manner? I'm certainly not insinuating slave labor. However, instead of locking them up, throwing away the key, and letting them sit, rot, and decay, then why not use their best years either physiclaly or mentally to effectually better the economy around them by invloving them directly in work. Not study, not weight training programs, and certainly not useless psychological imprisonment. Recall Shawshank Redemption? Any work that was available to the inmates was highly coveted. A man feels like a man when he is productive with either his hands or his mind. In this manner, the inmate can begin to pay his debt to society in a productive and impactful fashion. Any thoughts on this? a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Saturday, June 06, 2009 12:40:32 AM |
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| [Head banger] Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:55:08 PM | |
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hey, if they kill off child molesters, good on them
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by spapad from Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:37:50 PM)| | | spapad wrote: | | Never said they were right Ron, it's just even killers have a code, and they weed out the ones they feel unnecessary to be in their "class" Sick to it's core, but they do have a code.
| | | ronhartsell wrote: | | I've often wondered about that Spapad...morality among felon's...wtf is that??...I know you can tell me all about it, and I'm sure I know what you do about it...but wtf??
| | | spapad wrote: | | Believe it or not most stone cold killers dispise child molesters which J. Dahmer was, hence the end of his life. (Quoting Message by ~ MG_Metalgoddess~ from Saturday, June 06, 2009 3:49:31 PM)
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~ MG_Metalgoddess~ wrote: |
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I couldnt agree with more!!!!!! Some-one will prob take care of him in time,,,, just like jeffrey dahmer...
Dahmer was cleaning a bathroom in a prison and one of the prisoners, that allready had a life sentence,, unscrewed a pipe from the sink and smashed his head in. I Call it KARMA.....
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Head banger wrote: |
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vince lee is a perfect candidate for the death penalty. what good is keeping him around, never mind letting him out?
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~ MG_Metalgoddess~ wrote: |
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That I can agree on to re-pre-pare people for Society, when they are fit to be re-released in it... I know you have people in jail for stupid pety things... stealing, ect.. drugs are a huge problem, esp Crack,, but if those people can prove and be rehabilitated to be able to be productive in Society then I agee,,,
But some of them.... OMG.. It scares the hell out of me to think this Vince Lee guy could be released in as little as a year,, WTF??????
Violent repeat offenders, I have a small prob with.. LOL.... They are usually building themselves up to do a much bigger crime such as assault, ect... if they are showm a bigger way to reform themselves and really try too,, them they may be helped. But most of the people who commit the most hidious of the crimes, have been in and out of the jail system most of their lives...
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_strat_ wrote: |
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Absolutely. The decapitation freak and Fritzl are two exapmles of people who, in my opinion, should stay behind bars for life. Working or not, just stay there.
I remember seeing a very interesting TV report from Iceland (I think it was Iceland), where they have a prison where they actualy let inmates out to go to work, and see their families. Of course, if they behave, and its only for the light cases, but it was said that it works surprisingly well. And they ahve to pay for their "stay" in the prison themselves.
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Head banger wrote: |
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Exactly, make them feel usefull, make them used to working, and lessen their cost to society. They are not slaves, they are paying their debt. Work keeps them in condition to work, keeps the idea in their head, busy hands dont have as much time to get into trouble so less crime in prison. in this manner some sentances could be reduced, for minor things, and some basic skills can be learned. in time, the cost of law enforcement to society can be reduced, lowering taxes, benefiting the economy for all, so there is less poverty, which helps reduce crime. win win.
sure there are the ocasional ones who are too dangerous to let out anywhere for any reason, but at least 80% of prisoners are capable of working under supervision.
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BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: |
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| If those whom are incarcerated were to prove their productivity to society, would it not be feasible, then, to somehow utilize their strengths by setting up work and labor camps to generate a pseudo penitentiary economy? By paying off their debt to society by being involved in much needed but costly programs such as infrastructure projects, housing and commercial development, snow removal, trash pick up, road repair, etc? All jurisdictions are lashing at out at the high price of wages, union dues, labor shortages, and work projects that never seem to have the necessary funding or manpower to take the architects blueprint past the developmental stages. But when you have a relatively young labor force sitting in a priosn cell for X amount of years, would it not be prudent, and cost effective, to use their time, skills, and ability to serve the populice by contributing to society in a productive manner? I'm certainly not insinuating slave labor. However, instead of locking them up, throwing away the key, and letting them sit, rot, and decay, then why not use their best years either physiclaly or mentally to effectually better the economy around them by invloving them directly in work. Not study, not weight training programs, and certainly not useless psychological imprisonment. Recall Shawshank Redemption? Any work that was available to the inmates was highly coveted. A man feels like a man when he is productive with either his hands or his mind. In this manner, the inmate can begin to pay his debt to society in a productive and impactful fashion. Any thoughts on this? a. Hammerstein Edited at: Saturday, June 06, 2009 12:40:32 AM |
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Edited at: Sunday, June 07, 2009 7:28:05 PM |
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| [spapad] Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:37:50 PM | |
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Never said they were right Ron, it's just even killers have a code, and they weed out the ones they feel unnecessary to be in their "class" Sick to it's core, but they do have a code.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by ronhartsell from Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:06:09 PM)| | | ronhartsell wrote: | | I've often wondered about that Spapad...morality among felon's...wtf is that??...I know you can tell me all about it, and I'm sure I know what you do about it...but wtf??
| | | spapad wrote: | | Believe it or not most stone cold killers dispise child molesters which J. Dahmer was, hence the end of his life. (Quoting Message by ~ MG_Metalgoddess~ from Saturday, June 06, 2009 3:49:31 PM)
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~ MG_Metalgoddess~ wrote: |
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I couldnt agree with more!!!!!! Some-one will prob take care of him in time,,,, just like jeffrey dahmer...
Dahmer was cleaning a bathroom in a prison and one of the prisoners, that allready had a life sentence,, unscrewed a pipe from the sink and smashed his head in. I Call it KARMA.....
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Head banger wrote: |
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vince lee is a perfect candidate for the death penalty. what good is keeping him around, never mind letting him out?
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~ MG_Metalgoddess~ wrote: |
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That I can agree on to re-pre-pare people for Society, when they are fit to be re-released in it... I know you have people in jail for stupid pety things... stealing, ect.. drugs are a huge problem, esp Crack,, but if those people can prove and be rehabilitated to be able to be productive in Society then I agee,,,
But some of them.... OMG.. It scares the hell out of me to think this Vince Lee guy could be released in as little as a year,, WTF??????
Violent repeat offenders, I have a small prob with.. LOL.... They are usually building themselves up to do a much bigger crime such as assault, ect... if they are showm a bigger way to reform themselves and really try too,, them they may be helped. But most of the people who commit the most hidious of the crimes, have been in and out of the jail system most of their lives...
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_strat_ wrote: |
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Absolutely. The decapitation freak and Fritzl are two exapmles of people who, in my opinion, should stay behind bars for life. Working or not, just stay there.
I remember seeing a very interesting TV report from Iceland (I think it was Iceland), where they have a prison where they actualy let inmates out to go to work, and see their families. Of course, if they behave, and its only for the light cases, but it was said that it works surprisingly well. And they ahve to pay for their "stay" in the prison themselves.
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Head banger wrote: |
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Exactly, make them feel usefull, make them used to working, and lessen their cost to society. They are not slaves, they are paying their debt. Work keeps them in condition to work, keeps the idea in their head, busy hands dont have as much time to get into trouble so less crime in prison. in this manner some sentances could be reduced, for minor things, and some basic skills can be learned. in time, the cost of law enforcement to society can be reduced, lowering taxes, benefiting the economy for all, so there is less poverty, which helps reduce crime. win win.
sure there are the ocasional ones who are too dangerous to let out anywhere for any reason, but at least 80% of prisoners are capable of working under supervision.
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BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: |
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| If those whom are incarcerated were to prove their productivity to society, would it not be feasible, then, to somehow utilize their strengths by setting up work and labor camps to generate a pseudo penitentiary economy? By paying off their debt to society by being involved in much needed but costly programs such as infrastructure projects, housing and commercial development, snow removal, trash pick up, road repair, etc? All jurisdictions are lashing at out at the high price of wages, union dues, labor shortages, and work projects that never seem to have the necessary funding or manpower to take the architects blueprint past the developmental stages. But when you have a relatively young labor force sitting in a priosn cell for X amount of years, would it not be prudent, and cost effective, to use their time, skills, and ability to serve the populice by contributing to society in a productive manner? I'm certainly not insinuating slave labor. However, instead of locking them up, throwing away the key, and letting them sit, rot, and decay, then why not use their best years either physiclaly or mentally to effectually better the economy around them by invloving them directly in work. Not study, not weight training programs, and certainly not useless psychological imprisonment. Recall Shawshank Redemption? Any work that was available to the inmates was highly coveted. A man feels like a man when he is productive with either his hands or his mind. In this manner, the inmate can begin to pay his debt to society in a productive and impactful fashion. Any thoughts on this? a. Hammerstein Edited at: Saturday, June 06, 2009 12:40:32 AM |
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Edited at: Sunday, June 07, 2009 7:28:05 PM |
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| [ron h] Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:17:47 PM | |
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My 2 cents...Killing another Human Being under any circumstance other than in defense (of Country, self, of another person...)...basically cold blooded murder (pre-meditated or not) is the worst act one can perform against another and should be met with the same fate. There is no rehabilitating an individual who has freely done it at least once already. They may choose to not do it again and be a model citizen for the reat of their life, if given the chance...but as far as I'm concerened when it comes to human life, you only get one chance...no mulligans in my book...and it should come within 30 days of conviction, period!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by ~ MG_Metalgoddess~ from Saturday, June 06, 2009 9:20:58 AM)| | | ~ MG_Metalgoddess~ wrote: | | That I can agree on to re-pre-pare people for Society, when they are fit to be re-released in it... I know you have people in jail for stupid pety things... stealing, ect.. drugs are a huge problem, esp Crack,, but if those people can prove and be rehabilitated to be able to be productive in Society then I agee,,,
But some of them.... OMG.. It scares the hell out of me to think this Vince Lee guy could be released in as little as a year,, WTF??????
Violent repeat offenders, I have a small prob with.. LOL.... They are usually building themselves up to do a much bigger crime such as assault, ect... if they are showm a bigger way to reform themselves and really try too,, them they may be helped. But most of the people who commit the most hidious of the crimes, have been in and out of the jail system most of their lives...
| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Absolutely. The decapitation freak and Fritzl are two exapmles of people who, in my opinion, should stay behind bars for life. Working or not, just stay there.
I remember seeing a very interesting TV report from Iceland (I think it was Iceland), where they have a prison where they actualy let inmates out to go to work, and see their families. Of course, if they behave, and its only for the light cases, but it was said that it works surprisingly well. And they ahve to pay for their "stay" in the prison themselves.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | Exactly, make them feel usefull, make them used to working, and lessen their cost to society. They are not slaves, they are paying their debt. Work keeps them in condition to work, keeps the idea in their head, busy hands dont have as much time to get into trouble so less crime in prison. in this manner some sentances could be reduced, for minor things, and some basic skills can be learned. in time, the cost of law enforcement to society can be reduced, lowering taxes, benefiting the economy for all, so there is less poverty, which helps reduce crime. win win.
sure there are the ocasional ones who are too dangerous to let out anywhere for any reason, but at least 80% of prisoners are capable of working under supervision.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | If those whom are incarcerated were to prove their productivity to society, would it not be feasible, then, to somehow utilize their strengths by setting up work and labor camps to generate a pseudo penitentiary economy? By paying off their debt to society by being involved in much needed but costly programs such as infrastructure projects, housing and commercial development, snow removal, trash pick up, road repair, etc? All jurisdictions are lashing at out at the high price of wages, union dues, labor shortages, and work projects that never seem to have the necessary funding or manpower to take the architects blueprint past the developmental stages. But when you have a relatively young labor force sitting in a priosn cell for X amount of years, would it not be prudent, and cost effective, to use their time, skills, and ability to serve the populice by contributing to society in a productive manner? I'm certainly not insinuating slave labor. However, instead of locking them up, throwing away the key, and letting them sit, rot, and decay, then why not use their best years either physiclaly or mentally to effectually better the economy around them by invloving them directly in work. Not study, not weight training programs, and certainly not useless psychological imprisonment. Recall Shawshank Redemption? Any work that was available to the inmates was highly coveted. A man feels like a man when he is productive with either his hands or his mind. In this manner, the inmate can begin to pay his debt to society in a productive and impactful fashion. Any thoughts on this? a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Saturday, June 06, 2009 12:40:32 AM |
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| [ron h] Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:06:09 PM | |
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I've often wondered about that Spapad...morality among felon's...wtf is that??...I know you can tell me all about it, and I'm sure I know what you do about it...but wtf??
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by spapad from Sunday, June 07, 2009 7:24:34 PM)| | | spapad wrote: | | Believe it or not most stone cold killers dispise child molesters which J. Dahmer was, hence the end of his life. (Quoting Message by ~ MG_Metalgoddess~ from Saturday, June 06, 2009 3:49:31 PM)
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~ MG_Metalgoddess~ wrote: |
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I couldnt agree with more!!!!!! Some-one will prob take care of him in time,,,, just like jeffrey dahmer...
Dahmer was cleaning a bathroom in a prison and one of the prisoners, that allready had a life sentence,, unscrewed a pipe from the sink and smashed his head in. I Call it KARMA.....
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Head banger wrote: |
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vince lee is a perfect candidate for the death penalty. what good is keeping him around, never mind letting him out?
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~ MG_Metalgoddess~ wrote: |
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That I can agree on to re-pre-pare people for Society, when they are fit to be re-released in it... I know you have people in jail for stupid pety things... stealing, ect.. drugs are a huge problem, esp Crack,, but if those people can prove and be rehabilitated to be able to be productive in Society then I agee,,,
But some of them.... OMG.. It scares the hell out of me to think this Vince Lee guy could be released in as little as a year,, WTF??????
Violent repeat offenders, I have a small prob with.. LOL.... They are usually building themselves up to do a much bigger crime such as assault, ect... if they are showm a bigger way to reform themselves and really try too,, them they may be helped. But most of the people who commit the most hidious of the crimes, have been in and out of the jail system most of their lives...
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_strat_ wrote: |
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Absolutely. The decapitation freak and Fritzl are two exapmles of people who, in my opinion, should stay behind bars for life. Working or not, just stay there.
I remember seeing a very interesting TV report from Iceland (I think it was Iceland), where they have a prison where they actualy let inmates out to go to work, and see their families. Of course, if they behave, and its only for the light cases, but it was said that it works surprisingly well. And they ahve to pay for their "stay" in the prison themselves.
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Head banger wrote: |
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Exactly, make them feel usefull, make them used to working, and lessen their cost to society. They are not slaves, they are paying their debt. Work keeps them in condition to work, keeps the idea in their head, busy hands dont have as much time to get into trouble so less crime in prison. in this manner some sentances could be reduced, for minor things, and some basic skills can be learned. in time, the cost of law enforcement to society can be reduced, lowering taxes, benefiting the economy for all, so there is less poverty, which helps reduce crime. win win.
sure there are the ocasional ones who are too dangerous to let out anywhere for any reason, but at least 80% of prisoners are capable of working under supervision.
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BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: |
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| If those whom are incarcerated were to prove their productivity to society, would it not be feasible, then, to somehow utilize their strengths by setting up work and labor camps to generate a pseudo penitentiary economy? By paying off their debt to society by being involved in much needed but costly programs such as infrastructure projects, housing and commercial development, snow removal, trash pick up, road repair, etc? All jurisdictions are lashing at out at the high price of wages, union dues, labor shortages, and work projects that never seem to have the necessary funding or manpower to take the architects blueprint past the developmental stages. But when you have a relatively young labor force sitting in a priosn cell for X amount of years, would it not be prudent, and cost effective, to use their time, skills, and ability to serve the populice by contributing to society in a productive manner? I'm certainly not insinuating slave labor. However, instead of locking them up, throwing away the key, and letting them sit, rot, and decay, then why not use their best years either physiclaly or mentally to effectually better the economy around them by invloving them directly in work. Not study, not weight training programs, and certainly not useless psychological imprisonment. Recall Shawshank Redemption? Any work that was available to the inmates was highly coveted. A man feels like a man when he is productive with either his hands or his mind. In this manner, the inmate can begin to pay his debt to society in a productive and impactful fashion. Any thoughts on this? a. Hammerstein Edited at: Saturday, June 06, 2009 12:40:32 AM |
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Edited at: Sunday, June 07, 2009 7:28:05 PM |
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| [spapad] Sunday, June 07, 2009 7:24:34 PM | |
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Believe it or not most stone cold killers dispise child molesters which J. Dahmer was, hence the end of his life. [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by ~ MG_Metalgoddess~ from Saturday, June 06, 2009 3:49:31 PM)
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~ MG_Metalgoddess~ wrote: |
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I couldnt agree with more!!!!!! Some-one will prob take care of him in time,,,, just like jeffrey dahmer...
Dahmer was cleaning a bathroom in a prison and one of the prisoners, that allready had a life sentence,, unscrewed a pipe from the sink and smashed his head in. I Call it KARMA.....
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Head banger wrote: |
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vince lee is a perfect candidate for the death penalty. what good is keeping him around, never mind letting him out?
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~ MG_Metalgoddess~ wrote: |
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That I can agree on to re-pre-pare people for Society, when they are fit to be re-released in it... I know you have people in jail for stupid pety things... stealing, ect.. drugs are a huge problem, esp Crack,, but if those people can prove and be rehabilitated to be able to be productive in Society then I agee,,,
But some of them.... OMG.. It scares the hell out of me to think this Vince Lee guy could be released in as little as a year,, WTF??????
Violent repeat offenders, I have a small prob with.. LOL.... They are usually building themselves up to do a much bigger crime such as assault, ect... if they are showm a bigger way to reform themselves and really try too,, them they may be helped. But most of the people who commit the most hidious of the crimes, have been in and out of the jail system most of their lives...
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_strat_ wrote: |
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Absolutely. The decapitation freak and Fritzl are two exapmles of people who, in my opinion, should stay behind bars for life. Working or not, just stay there.
I remember seeing a very interesting TV report from Iceland (I think it was Iceland), where they have a prison where they actualy let inmates out to go to work, and see their families. Of course, if they behave, and its only for the light cases, but it was said that it works surprisingly well. And they ahve to pay for their "stay" in the prison themselves.
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Head banger wrote: |
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Exactly, make them feel usefull, make them used to working, and lessen their cost to society. They are not slaves, they are paying their debt. Work keeps them in condition to work, keeps the idea in their head, busy hands dont have as much time to get into trouble so less crime in prison. in this manner some sentances could be reduced, for minor things, and some basic skills can be learned. in time, the cost of law enforcement to society can be reduced, lowering taxes, benefiting the economy for all, so there is less poverty, which helps reduce crime. win win.
sure there are the ocasional ones who are too dangerous to let out anywhere for any reason, but at least 80% of prisoners are capable of working under supervision.
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BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: |
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| If those whom are incarcerated were to prove their productivity to society, would it not be feasible, then, to somehow utilize their strengths by setting up work and labor camps to generate a pseudo penitentiary economy? By paying off their debt to society by being involved in much needed but costly programs such as infrastructure projects, housing and commercial development, snow removal, trash pick up, road repair, etc? All jurisdictions are lashing at out at the high price of wages, union dues, labor shortages, and work projects that never seem to have the necessary funding or manpower to take the architects blueprint past the developmental stages. But when you have a relatively young labor force sitting in a priosn cell for X amount of years, would it not be prudent, and cost effective, to use their time, skills, and ability to serve the populice by contributing to society in a productive manner? I'm certainly not insinuating slave labor. However, instead of locking them up, throwing away the key, and letting them sit, rot, and decay, then why not use their best years either physiclaly or mentally to effectually better the economy around them by invloving them directly in work. Not study, not weight training programs, and certainly not useless psychological imprisonment. Recall Shawshank Redemption? Any work that was available to the inmates was highly coveted. A man feels like a man when he is productive with either his hands or his mind. In this manner, the inmate can begin to pay his debt to society in a productive and impactful fashion. Any thoughts on this? a. Hammerstein Edited at: Saturday, June 06, 2009 12:40:32 AM |
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Edited at: Sunday, June 07, 2009 7:28:05 PM |
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| [_strat_] Sunday, June 07, 2009 5:03:03 PM | |
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| Ok, topic for Euros... European elections closed today. Anyone voted? I didnt, but I was still a bit disapointed when the conservatives won... Oh, well, not that the Euro parliament matters all that much. |
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| [~ MG_Metalgoddess~] Saturday, June 06, 2009 3:49:31 PM | |
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I couldnt agree with more!!!!!! Some-one will prob take care of him in time,,,, just like jeffrey dahmer...
Dahmer was cleaning a bathroom in a prison and one of the prisoners, that allready had a life sentence,, unscrewed a pipe from the sink and smashed his head in. I Call it KARMA.....
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Saturday, June 06, 2009 11:22:33 AM)| | | Head banger wrote: | | vince lee is a perfect candidate for the death penalty. what good is keeping him around, never mind letting him out?
| | | ~ MG_Metalgoddess~ wrote: | | That I can agree on to re-pre-pare people for Society, when they are fit to be re-released in it... I know you have people in jail for stupid pety things... stealing, ect.. drugs are a huge problem, esp Crack,, but if those people can prove and be rehabilitated to be able to be productive in Society then I agee,,,
But some of them.... OMG.. It scares the hell out of me to think this Vince Lee guy could be released in as little as a year,, WTF??????
Violent repeat offenders, I have a small prob with.. LOL.... They are usually building themselves up to do a much bigger crime such as assault, ect... if they are showm a bigger way to reform themselves and really try too,, them they may be helped. But most of the people who commit the most hidious of the crimes, have been in and out of the jail system most of their lives...
| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Absolutely. The decapitation freak and Fritzl are two exapmles of people who, in my opinion, should stay behind bars for life. Working or not, just stay there.
I remember seeing a very interesting TV report from Iceland (I think it was Iceland), where they have a prison where they actualy let inmates out to go to work, and see their families. Of course, if they behave, and its only for the light cases, but it was said that it works surprisingly well. And they ahve to pay for their "stay" in the prison themselves.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | Exactly, make them feel usefull, make them used to working, and lessen their cost to society. They are not slaves, they are paying their debt. Work keeps them in condition to work, keeps the idea in their head, busy hands dont have as much time to get into trouble so less crime in prison. in this manner some sentances could be reduced, for minor things, and some basic skills can be learned. in time, the cost of law enforcement to society can be reduced, lowering taxes, benefiting the economy for all, so there is less poverty, which helps reduce crime. win win.
sure there are the ocasional ones who are too dangerous to let out anywhere for any reason, but at least 80% of prisoners are capable of working under supervision.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | If those whom are incarcerated were to prove their productivity to society, would it not be feasible, then, to somehow utilize their strengths by setting up work and labor camps to generate a pseudo penitentiary economy? By paying off their debt to society by being involved in much needed but costly programs such as infrastructure projects, housing and commercial development, snow removal, trash pick up, road repair, etc? All jurisdictions are lashing at out at the high price of wages, union dues, labor shortages, and work projects that never seem to have the necessary funding or manpower to take the architects blueprint past the developmental stages. But when you have a relatively young labor force sitting in a priosn cell for X amount of years, would it not be prudent, and cost effective, to use their time, skills, and ability to serve the populice by contributing to society in a productive manner? I'm certainly not insinuating slave labor. However, instead of locking them up, throwing away the key, and letting them sit, rot, and decay, then why not use their best years either physiclaly or mentally to effectually better the economy around them by invloving them directly in work. Not study, not weight training programs, and certainly not useless psychological imprisonment. Recall Shawshank Redemption? Any work that was available to the inmates was highly coveted. A man feels like a man when he is productive with either his hands or his mind. In this manner, the inmate can begin to pay his debt to society in a productive and impactful fashion. Any thoughts on this? a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Saturday, June 06, 2009 12:40:32 AM |
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| [Head banger] Saturday, June 06, 2009 12:12:19 PM | |
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ah, yes. keep the dangerous ones apart, forget money. I supose if they have it make them pay. I was refering to the ones who could be rehabed
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by _strat_ from Saturday, June 06, 2009 11:44:18 AM)| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Well, yeah, but the point I was trying to make is that in their case, rehabilitation is not a priority. just keeping them apart from the rest of society is.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | they should pay, some treat it as a free hotel.
| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Absolutely. The decapitation freak and Fritzl are two exapmles of people who, in my opinion, should stay behind bars for life. Working or not, just stay there.
I remember seeing a very interesting TV report from Iceland (I think it was Iceland), where they have a prison where they actualy let inmates out to go to work, and see their families. Of course, if they behave, and its only for the light cases, but it was said that it works surprisingly well. And they ahve to pay for their "stay" in the prison themselves.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | Exactly, make them feel usefull, make them used to working, and lessen their cost to society. They are not slaves, they are paying their debt. Work keeps them in condition to work, keeps the idea in their head, busy hands dont have as much time to get into trouble so less crime in prison. in this manner some sentances could be reduced, for minor things, and some basic skills can be learned. in time, the cost of law enforcement to society can be reduced, lowering taxes, benefiting the economy for all, so there is less poverty, which helps reduce crime. win win.
sure there are the ocasional ones who are too dangerous to let out anywhere for any reason, but at least 80% of prisoners are capable of working under supervision.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | If those whom are incarcerated were to prove their productivity to society, would it not be feasible, then, to somehow utilize their strengths by setting up work and labor camps to generate a pseudo penitentiary economy? By paying off their debt to society by being involved in much needed but costly programs such as infrastructure projects, housing and commercial development, snow removal, trash pick up, road repair, etc? All jurisdictions are lashing at out at the high price of wages, union dues, labor shortages, and work projects that never seem to have the necessary funding or manpower to take the architects blueprint past the developmental stages. But when you have a relatively young labor force sitting in a priosn cell for X amount of years, would it not be prudent, and cost effective, to use their time, skills, and ability to serve the populice by contributing to society in a productive manner? I'm certainly not insinuating slave labor. However, instead of locking them up, throwing away the key, and letting them sit, rot, and decay, then why not use their best years either physiclaly or mentally to effectually better the economy around them by invloving them directly in work. Not study, not weight training programs, and certainly not useless psychological imprisonment. Recall Shawshank Redemption? Any work that was available to the inmates was highly coveted. A man feels like a man when he is productive with either his hands or his mind. In this manner, the inmate can begin to pay his debt to society in a productive and impactful fashion. Any thoughts on this? a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Saturday, June 06, 2009 12:40:32 AM |
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| [_strat_] Saturday, June 06, 2009 11:44:18 AM | |
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Well, yeah, but the point I was trying to make is that in their case, rehabilitation is not a priority. just keeping them apart from the rest of society is.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Saturday, June 06, 2009 11:22:52 AM)| | | Head banger wrote: | | they should pay, some treat it as a free hotel.
| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Absolutely. The decapitation freak and Fritzl are two exapmles of people who, in my opinion, should stay behind bars for life. Working or not, just stay there.
I remember seeing a very interesting TV report from Iceland (I think it was Iceland), where they have a prison where they actualy let inmates out to go to work, and see their families. Of course, if they behave, and its only for the light cases, but it was said that it works surprisingly well. And they ahve to pay for their "stay" in the prison themselves.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | Exactly, make them feel usefull, make them used to working, and lessen their cost to society. They are not slaves, they are paying their debt. Work keeps them in condition to work, keeps the idea in their head, busy hands dont have as much time to get into trouble so less crime in prison. in this manner some sentances could be reduced, for minor things, and some basic skills can be learned. in time, the cost of law enforcement to society can be reduced, lowering taxes, benefiting the economy for all, so there is less poverty, which helps reduce crime. win win.
sure there are the ocasional ones who are too dangerous to let out anywhere for any reason, but at least 80% of prisoners are capable of working under supervision.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | If those whom are incarcerated were to prove their productivity to society, would it not be feasible, then, to somehow utilize their strengths by setting up work and labor camps to generate a pseudo penitentiary economy? By paying off their debt to society by being involved in much needed but costly programs such as infrastructure projects, housing and commercial development, snow removal, trash pick up, road repair, etc? All jurisdictions are lashing at out at the high price of wages, union dues, labor shortages, and work projects that never seem to have the necessary funding or manpower to take the architects blueprint past the developmental stages. But when you have a relatively young labor force sitting in a priosn cell for X amount of years, would it not be prudent, and cost effective, to use their time, skills, and ability to serve the populice by contributing to society in a productive manner? I'm certainly not insinuating slave labor. However, instead of locking them up, throwing away the key, and letting them sit, rot, and decay, then why not use their best years either physiclaly or mentally to effectually better the economy around them by invloving them directly in work. Not study, not weight training programs, and certainly not useless psychological imprisonment. Recall Shawshank Redemption? Any work that was available to the inmates was highly coveted. A man feels like a man when he is productive with either his hands or his mind. In this manner, the inmate can begin to pay his debt to society in a productive and impactful fashion. Any thoughts on this? a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Saturday, June 06, 2009 12:40:32 AM |
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| [Head banger] Saturday, June 06, 2009 11:23:05 AM | |
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me too, given that it snowed overnight here.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by _strat_ from Saturday, June 06, 2009 9:04:41 AM)| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Pity. I was hoping Id go someplace warm after I die.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | hell has frozen over, we agree.
| | | _strat_ wrote: | | I agree, actually. I am against both capital punishment and slave labour, but putting them to work like everyone else is a great idea. Not just that they would actualy serve their debt to the society, I think that it would help to turn prisons from criminal academies (which they are now) into real rehabilitation institutions, where people would actualy learn how to live like a normal member of a society. Benefits all around, I think.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | If those whom are incarcerated were to prove their productivity to society, would it not be feasible, then, to somehow utilize their strengths by setting up work and labor camps to generate a pseudo penitentiary economy? By paying off their debt to society by being involved in much needed but costly programs such as infrastructure projects, housing and commercial development, snow removal, trash pick up, road repair, etc? All jurisdictions are lashing at out at the high price of wages, union dues, labor shortages, and work projects that never seem to have the necessary funding or manpower to take the architects blueprint past the developmental stages. But when you have a relatively young labor force sitting in a priosn cell for X amount of years, would it not be prudent, and cost effective, to use their time, skills, and ability to serve the populice by contributing to society in a productive manner? I'm certainly not insinuating slave labor. However, instead of locking them up, throwing away the key, and letting them sit, rot, and decay, then why not use their best years either physiclaly or mentally to effectually better the economy around them by invloving them directly in work. Not study, not weight training programs, and certainly not useless psychological imprisonment. Recall Shawshank Redemption? Any work that was available to the inmates was highly coveted. A man feels like a man when he is productive with either his hands or his mind. In this manner, the inmate can begin to pay his debt to society in a productive and impactful fashion. Any thoughts on this? a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Saturday, June 06, 2009 12:40:32 AM |
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| [Head banger] Saturday, June 06, 2009 11:22:52 AM | |
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they should pay, some treat it as a free hotel.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by _strat_ from Saturday, June 06, 2009 9:08:30 AM)| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Absolutely. The decapitation freak and Fritzl are two exapmles of people who, in my opinion, should stay behind bars for life. Working or not, just stay there.
I remember seeing a very interesting TV report from Iceland (I think it was Iceland), where they have a prison where they actualy let inmates out to go to work, and see their families. Of course, if they behave, and its only for the light cases, but it was said that it works surprisingly well. And they ahve to pay for their "stay" in the prison themselves.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | Exactly, make them feel usefull, make them used to working, and lessen their cost to society. They are not slaves, they are paying their debt. Work keeps them in condition to work, keeps the idea in their head, busy hands dont have as much time to get into trouble so less crime in prison. in this manner some sentances could be reduced, for minor things, and some basic skills can be learned. in time, the cost of law enforcement to society can be reduced, lowering taxes, benefiting the economy for all, so there is less poverty, which helps reduce crime. win win.
sure there are the ocasional ones who are too dangerous to let out anywhere for any reason, but at least 80% of prisoners are capable of working under supervision.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | If those whom are incarcerated were to prove their productivity to society, would it not be feasible, then, to somehow utilize their strengths by setting up work and labor camps to generate a pseudo penitentiary economy? By paying off their debt to society by being involved in much needed but costly programs such as infrastructure projects, housing and commercial development, snow removal, trash pick up, road repair, etc? All jurisdictions are lashing at out at the high price of wages, union dues, labor shortages, and work projects that never seem to have the necessary funding or manpower to take the architects blueprint past the developmental stages. But when you have a relatively young labor force sitting in a priosn cell for X amount of years, would it not be prudent, and cost effective, to use their time, skills, and ability to serve the populice by contributing to society in a productive manner? I'm certainly not insinuating slave labor. However, instead of locking them up, throwing away the key, and letting them sit, rot, and decay, then why not use their best years either physiclaly or mentally to effectually better the economy around them by invloving them directly in work. Not study, not weight training programs, and certainly not useless psychological imprisonment. Recall Shawshank Redemption? Any work that was available to the inmates was highly coveted. A man feels like a man when he is productive with either his hands or his mind. In this manner, the inmate can begin to pay his debt to society in a productive and impactful fashion. Any thoughts on this? a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Saturday, June 06, 2009 12:40:32 AM |
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| [Head banger] Saturday, June 06, 2009 11:22:33 AM | |
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vince lee is a perfect candidate for the death penalty. what good is keeping him around, never mind letting him out?
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by ~ MG_Metalgoddess~ from Saturday, June 06, 2009 9:20:58 AM)| | | ~ MG_Metalgoddess~ wrote: | | That I can agree on to re-pre-pare people for Society, when they are fit to be re-released in it... I know you have people in jail for stupid pety things... stealing, ect.. drugs are a huge problem, esp Crack,, but if those people can prove and be rehabilitated to be able to be productive in Society then I agee,,,
But some of them.... OMG.. It scares the hell out of me to think this Vince Lee guy could be released in as little as a year,, WTF??????
Violent repeat offenders, I have a small prob with.. LOL.... They are usually building themselves up to do a much bigger crime such as assault, ect... if they are showm a bigger way to reform themselves and really try too,, them they may be helped. But most of the people who commit the most hidious of the crimes, have been in and out of the jail system most of their lives...
| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Absolutely. The decapitation freak and Fritzl are two exapmles of people who, in my opinion, should stay behind bars for life. Working or not, just stay there.
I remember seeing a very interesting TV report from Iceland (I think it was Iceland), where they have a prison where they actualy let inmates out to go to work, and see their families. Of course, if they behave, and its only for the light cases, but it was said that it works surprisingly well. And they ahve to pay for their "stay" in the prison themselves.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | Exactly, make them feel usefull, make them used to working, and lessen their cost to society. They are not slaves, they are paying their debt. Work keeps them in condition to work, keeps the idea in their head, busy hands dont have as much time to get into trouble so less crime in prison. in this manner some sentances could be reduced, for minor things, and some basic skills can be learned. in time, the cost of law enforcement to society can be reduced, lowering taxes, benefiting the economy for all, so there is less poverty, which helps reduce crime. win win.
sure there are the ocasional ones who are too dangerous to let out anywhere for any reason, but at least 80% of prisoners are capable of working under supervision.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | If those whom are incarcerated were to prove their productivity to society, would it not be feasible, then, to somehow utilize their strengths by setting up work and labor camps to generate a pseudo penitentiary economy? By paying off their debt to society by being involved in much needed but costly programs such as infrastructure projects, housing and commercial development, snow removal, trash pick up, road repair, etc? All jurisdictions are lashing at out at the high price of wages, union dues, labor shortages, and work projects that never seem to have the necessary funding or manpower to take the architects blueprint past the developmental stages. But when you have a relatively young labor force sitting in a priosn cell for X amount of years, would it not be prudent, and cost effective, to use their time, skills, and ability to serve the populice by contributing to society in a productive manner? I'm certainly not insinuating slave labor. However, instead of locking them up, throwing away the key, and letting them sit, rot, and decay, then why not use their best years either physiclaly or mentally to effectually better the economy around them by invloving them directly in work. Not study, not weight training programs, and certainly not useless psychological imprisonment. Recall Shawshank Redemption? Any work that was available to the inmates was highly coveted. A man feels like a man when he is productive with either his hands or his mind. In this manner, the inmate can begin to pay his debt to society in a productive and impactful fashion. Any thoughts on this? a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Saturday, June 06, 2009 12:40:32 AM |
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