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Pro Sports Quorum

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NFL, MLB, NFL, NHL, NASCAR, F1.....discussions on Professional Sports.

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[ron h] Sunday, February 22, 2009 9:55:12 AM

Ah...the CFL, I've talked to Soy about this...we don't get much exposure to it down here, but he expalined a lot of the rules to me, so I'll be expecting to watch a faster game when the chance arises...I don't follow racing much, but if I do it'll be like the Indy 500 or some NASCAR when my friends or my daughter is here...I'm more baseball and football and what ever our national sports teams happen to be doing at the time...oh...and womens beach volleyball/tennis...just a casual viewer...

...
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Sunday, February 22, 2009 9:48:30 AM)

[Head banger] Sunday, February 22, 2009 9:48:30 AM

CFL football, which is starting soon, just after mlb starts I think. open wheel racing, indy and F1. thats about it for serious folowing. I watch some other things, casualy, but dont realy folow them
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by ronhartsell from Sunday, February 22, 2009 9:41:22 AM)

[ron h] Sunday, February 22, 2009 9:41:22 AM

That's cool...what sport(s) do you follow (aside from hockey)??
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Sunday, February 22, 2009 9:38:43 AM)

[ron h] Sunday, February 22, 2009 9:39:39 AM

I'm 42 years old and I still have the 13 yr. old in me that gets excited around this time of year...baseball is my passion above and beyond all other sports...I'm really trying hard to get excited about hockey...my biggest problem is I don't know the history that well...I don't understand a lot of the rules...the local team has sucked for years...I don't know what the +/- means...all the home games were blacked out 'til this season...and I still call Minn. the North Stars...but I've been following them the last few years as I dread this time of year as well...So...who's gonna wind up with Manny??
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Sunday, February 22, 2009 9:31:20 AM)

[Head banger] Sunday, February 22, 2009 9:38:43 AM

I dont care.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by ronhartsell from Sunday, February 22, 2009 9:24:37 AM)

[Deep Freeze] Sunday, February 22, 2009 9:31:20 AM

Yes, Ron. I am dying for baseball!!! This is a very dark point in the year for me. There is college basketball, but I really think that it is all "practice" until the Big Dance. No football and I am not a big hockey fan so it is very tough for me right now. I am looking forward to the Spring training games that are televised!!! HA!!!!!!!!!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by ronhartsell from Sunday, February 22, 2009 9:24:37 AM)

[ron h] Sunday, February 22, 2009 9:24:37 AM

Am I the only one ready for the start of baseball?? Anyone care about the World Baseball Series about to start??

[Head banger] Saturday, February 21, 2009 10:36:31 PM

Soy, did you see that goal by Iginla? so open, even DF could have scored it and he dosnt know which end of the stick to hold. LOL

[paorcamp] Tuesday, February 17, 2009 6:42:12 PM

[icecreamman] Monday, February 16, 2009 7:14:56 PM

Well it seems as though you are a "stock car" racing fan too. I watched Daytona as well. I was very upset that it was rained out.

I am a Kasey Kahne fan, who do you pull for ?
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Sunday, February 15, 2009 2:26:38 PM)

[Head banger] Monday, February 16, 2009 12:01:03 AM

nope. Kevin martin won the alberta playdowns though.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Sunday, February 15, 2009 10:41:04 PM)

[guidogodoy] Sunday, February 15, 2009 10:41:04 PM

Who? Are they curlers?! Ah, I loves the SPORT!
--------------

The first curling club in the United States was organized in 1830 only thirty miles from Detroit, at Orchard Lake, Michigan. Called the Orchard Lake Curling Club, the club used hickory block "stones." The Detroit Curling Club was started back in 1840 when Michigan only had a population of 212,000 and had only been in the Union for three years. About this time, an organization called the "Thistle Club" was founded and, curling being a winter sport, was played when the ice was suitable on the Detroit River at the foot of Joseph Campau; on the bay; and at the old Recreation Park. These clubs became the Granite Club, and in 1885, the present Detroit Curling Club was organized.

[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Sunday, February 15, 2009 10:21:41 PM)

[Head banger] Sunday, February 15, 2009 10:21:41 PM

ok, since I cant watch racing in cars that pretend to be the crap I rent out, how did montoya and almendinger do?
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Sunday, February 15, 2009 2:28:48 PM)

[Deep Freeze] Sunday, February 15, 2009 3:13:33 PM

I can't do ANY of those! How 'bout darts..? HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Sunday, February 15, 2009 3:11:19 PM)

[guidogodoy] Sunday, February 15, 2009 3:11:19 PM

Tell you what, let's see what you can do with more consistency: push a broom the entire length of ice and still have "shuffleboard strategy" (trying to bring things to your realm of reference), play hockey or ummmm...drive a car! Don't run out of gas and have them guys change your tires! Yeeeeehaaawwww!!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Sunday, February 15, 2009 2:47:54 PM)

[Deep Freeze] Sunday, February 15, 2009 2:47:54 PM

Yeah. Like hockey....HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Sunday, February 15, 2009 2:46:18 PM)

[guidogodoy] Sunday, February 15, 2009 2:46:18 PM

Hey, at least there is some physical MOVEMENT.

Car racing, turn left, turn left, turn left. Pit stop...make people work, then turn left turn left. What's worse, some consider THAT a "sport." PFFF!!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Sunday, February 15, 2009 2:34:22 PM)

[Deep Freeze] Sunday, February 15, 2009 2:34:22 PM

Curling?? Oh yeah! Competitive Ice Sweeping..... HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Sunday, February 15, 2009 2:28:48 PM)

[guidogodoy] Sunday, February 15, 2009 2:28:48 PM

Oh, man! I'd join you but there is probably an apple in my fridge that I can cut and watch rot to trump such an event. "Turn left, turn left, turn left....."

When the hell is curling going to come back to prime-time?
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Sunday, February 15, 2009 2:26:38 PM)

[Deep Freeze] Sunday, February 15, 2009 2:26:38 PM

OK..I am almost certain that I am the only one getting ready to watch Daytona but, ...TIM!!!!! Who the hell sang the National Anthem?? The guy was terrible!!! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ah well, almost race time!

[Deep Freeze] Saturday, February 14, 2009 12:54:29 PM

Not Pro sports but, I am trying to watch the UCLA -Arizona game and I am getting terribly frustrated. Bruins are not playing well at all. Been a bad week for us all around..

[Jeanine] Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:06:36 PM

Did you say David Beckman?...Just can't figure out why he is so darn marketable???

[TIMBONI] Monday, February 09, 2009 11:19:14 PM

That's what it's all about. Can anyone say "David Beckham" ? Ticket sales & marketing ! Can anyone say "Manny Ramirez" ? Ticket sales & marketing ! Like you said, it's the business of winning. Even more so, it's a business.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Monday, February 09, 2009 10:01:22 PM)

[Deep Freeze] Monday, February 09, 2009 10:01:22 PM

VERY interesting take, Tim. And not far at all from what I was saying earlier. Ticket sales, baby! So very, very (sadly) true...
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by TIMBONI from Monday, February 09, 2009 9:59:18 PM)

[TIMBONI] Monday, February 09, 2009 9:59:18 PM

The unfortunate part of this is that MLB is just as wrong in the whole affair. They turned a blind eye to steroids ( thus the lack of reprimand / punishment / suspension when players were testing positive. No institution of mandatory testing. Nothing. They knew darn well that the use of steroids was creating a more exciting environment for the fan and was a major reason for the resurgence of professional baseball. Steroids saved baseball.

[Soylentgreen4u] Monday, February 09, 2009 2:40:56 PM

SO MR. RODRIGUEZ HAS COME CLEAN (PARDON THE PUN) ABOUT USING STEROIDS (UNDER ADVICE FORM HIS AGENT AND LAWYER I'M SURE)...HE ADMITTED TO PLAYING DIRTY BETWEEN 2001 TO 2003...FINE,DANDY,GOOD FOR YOU...THE NEXT LOGICAL STEP:WIPE ALL HOME RUNS FROM THE BOOKS IN THAT TIME PERIOD,IN AS FAR AS HIM CHASING THE RECORD TO BECOME THE ALL-TIME HR KING...ANOTHER FANTASTIC OPPORTUNITY HAS PRESENTED ITSELF FOR MLB TO DO THE RIGHT THING AND SEND A STRONG MESSAGE HERE.

[Deep Freeze] Saturday, February 07, 2009 4:33:42 PM

I look forward to it.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Soylentgreen4u a.k.a. theWOLFMAN from Saturday, February 07, 2009 4:26:54 PM)

[Soylentgreen4u] Saturday, February 07, 2009 4:26:54 PM

"COWARD!".......I GOT YOUR "OUCH" RIGHT HERE....AS FOR YOU FREEZE...I'LL SEE YOU LATER......
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Saturday, February 07, 2009 4:18:05 PM)

[Deep Freeze] Saturday, February 07, 2009 4:24:33 PM

HA!!!!!!!!!!! Well said, my dear!! Passion! GREAT word. And HB, as for the UFC....well, I am certain there is something immoral or sexual that can be suggested about it if we wait long enough! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh look! No underlines!! HAAAAAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!!!!!

[spapad] Saturday, February 07, 2009 4:19:22 PM

I must say the JP guys are a very impassioned group of men, no matter what subject they take on! As Forest Gump says, "that's all I got to say about that."
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Saturday, February 07, 2009 4:14:22 PM)

[Head banger] Saturday, February 07, 2009 4:18:05 PM

and now for the UFC. this is me leaving
LOL
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Saturday, February 07, 2009 4:14:22 PM)

[Deep Freeze] Saturday, February 07, 2009 4:14:22 PM

All in good fun, my dear. Differing opinions make for stimulating conversation. I am sure Soy knows I love him....
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by spapad from Saturday, February 07, 2009 4:12:20 PM)

[spapad] Saturday, February 07, 2009 4:12:20 PM

Looks as if the verbal volley ball has taken an ugly turn this afternoon. Calm down gentlemen. It's just a game. (I know, here come the stones!).

[Deep Freeze] Saturday, February 07, 2009 4:10:42 PM

Resentment??? Don't be absurd, my friend! I do not resent you at all! Merely clarifying my comments! In fact, I welcome your banter. It is refreshing AND often I learn things or, at the very least, find a new point of view. In any case, sports are not the only thing that makes us different. There are clearly vast differences. That is a good thing.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Soylentgreen4u a.k.a. theWOLFMAN from Saturday, February 07, 2009 4:05:26 PM)

Soylentgreen4u a.k.a. theWOLFMAN wrote:

Hmmmmmm...MORE UNDERLINING AND OTHER VARIATIONS OF WRITING...I'M SENSING RESENTMENT....NOT BAD FOR A GUY WHO HAS TO HAVE THINGS UNDERLINED FOR HIM HUH?...OH WELL,SO BE IT.

Deep Freeze wrote:

Well, I do not recall assigning "importance" to it, but I suppose that is what I did if you say so. I also do not remember discussing "reward". I said professional sport is about the business of winning. And, if you know anything about me at all, you will recall that I am a HUGE college sports fan. I love watching college football and basketball. In fact, I do not even watch the NBA, but that again is not the point.

You are right, trying to gain an edge and injecting drugs are far apart in the grand scheme but I merely pointed out that I understand. I do not "condone". Just trying to offer an alternative point of view on the subject. As for "real" sport, I said anyone that has played at a real level. That never insinuated that professional is the only level I admire. Perhaps I need to consider my audience before I speak? Clearly I will find myself explaining more than discussing.

Soylentgreen4u a.k.a. theWOLFMAN wrote:

BLOODY REPUBLICAN!...I KNEW YOU WOULD CONDONE CHEATING!......I GUESS THEN THAT'S WHAT MAKES US DIFFERENT...THE REAL REWARD IS TO DO THE BEST YOU CAN,THE 'WINNING' ASPECT OF IT IS THE ICING ON THE CAKE...TO GET AN ADVANTAGE ON AN OPPONENT IS ONE THING,TO HIDE IN HOTEL ROOMS AND BATHROOM STALLS TO INJECT ONESELF WITH PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS IS QUITE ANOTHER...AND THESE GUYS ARE NOT HEROES ,THEY ARE PAID TO PLAY A GAME,YOU WANT HEROES PEOPLE?...HERE'S A FEW:
THE DOCTOR THAT SAVES YOUR LOVED ONES LIFE ON THE OPERATING TABLE...THE FIREMAN THAT RISKS ALL TO ENTER A BLAZING BUILDING TO RESCUE SOMEONE...THE 'GOOD' PARENT(S) OUT THERE THAT GAVE THEIR ALL TO RAISE THEIR KIDS RIGHT...SURELY YOU GET THE IDEA...A TAD DISAPPOINTING ON YOUR PART HOWEVER, YOU ONLY SEEM TO CONSIDER PROFESSIONAL SPORTS REAL ,I AM QUOTING YOU BY THE WAY...JUST BECAUSE A SPORT ISN'T AT THE PROFESSIONAL LEVEL,DOESN'T MAKE IT UNIMPORTANT...ACTUALLY IT'S A LOT MORE ENJOYABLE AT TIMES TO WATCH THE KIDS PLAY WITHOUT ALL THIS BS ATTACHED TO IT.

		Deep Freeze wrote:

		Well Soy, political affiliations aside, I find that I am in a rather difficult position when it comes to steroid use in professional sports. I mean, I am not for it but I have difficulty condemning it as "cheating". Professional sport is a business. It is the business of winning and, as such, you do whatever you must to win. Terribly cynical I know, but true. The old adage, "If you aint cheatin', you aint tryin' " comes to mind. Anyone that has ever played sports at any real level can certainly understand from whence I speak. I have mentioned my past life in baseball many times. I never doped but then again, I never got "paid" and needed to..My team was sponsored and we won in order to retain that sponsorship (along with using their equipment) but the point is, if we stopped winning, we lost our "ride". Did I try to take an extra step when I could? You bet! Did I try to exploit a weakness or sneak off the bag early or get a head start when I thought no umpire was looking? Absoluetly. I guess I "cheated". Professional athletes are paid to win. There is no silly sentiment or "pureness" to it. Win or retire. Period. And fans love winning. Now, having said this, as a true fan, I also understand the sadness many feel when a "hero" is exposed as a fraud. But, if you consider that an athlete's body is nothing more than a piece of equipment, how can you blame him?? I mean, they use the best equipment technology can offer, right? Certainly they would consider "improving" their body in any way possible? A truly difficult situation. I know what you are saying, Soy. I just do not know what the "right" answer would be... Edited at: Saturday, February 07, 2009 12:49:24 PM

[Soylentgreen4u] Saturday, February 07, 2009 4:05:26 PM

Hmmmmmm...MORE UNDERLINING AND OTHER VARIATIONS OF WRITING...I'M SENSING RESENTMENT....NOT BAD FOR A GUY WHO HAS TO HAVE THINGS UNDERLINED FOR HIM HUH?...OH WELL,SO BE IT.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Saturday, February 07, 2009 3:47:39 PM)

Deep Freeze wrote:

Soylentgreen4u a.k.a. theWOLFMAN wrote:

		Deep Freeze wrote:

		Well Soy, political affiliations aside, I find that I am in a rather difficult position when it comes to steroid use in professional sports. I mean, I am not for it but I have difficulty condemning it as "cheating". Professional sport is a business. It is the business of winning and, as such, you do whatever you must to win. Terribly cynical I know, but true. The old adage, "If you aint cheatin', you aint tryin' " comes to mind. Anyone that has ever played sports at any real level can certainly understand from whence I speak. I have mentioned my past life in baseball many times. I never doped but then again, I never got "paid" and needed to..My team was sponsored and we won in order to retain that sponsorship (along with using their equipment) but the point is, if we stopped winning, we lost our "ride". Did I try to take an extra step when I could? You bet! Did I try to exploit a weakness or sneak off the bag early or get a head start when I thought no umpire was looking? Absoluetly. I guess I "cheated". Professional athletes are paid to win. There is no silly sentiment or "pureness" to it. Win or retire. Period. And fans love winning. Now, having said this, as a true fan, I also understand the sadness many feel when a "hero" is exposed as a fraud. But, if you consider that an athlete's body is nothing more than a piece of equipment, how can you blame him?? I mean, they use the best equipment technology can offer, right? Certainly they would consider "improving" their body in any way possible? A truly difficult situation. I know what you are saying, Soy. I just do not know what the "right" answer would be... Edited at: Saturday, February 07, 2009 12:49:24 PM

[Head banger] Saturday, February 07, 2009 4:01:00 PM

ouch!!!!!!!!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Saturday, February 07, 2009 3:47:39 PM)

Deep Freeze wrote:

Soylentgreen4u a.k.a. theWOLFMAN wrote:

		Deep Freeze wrote:

		Well Soy, political affiliations aside, I find that I am in a rather difficult position when it comes to steroid use in professional sports. I mean, I am not for it but I have difficulty condemning it as "cheating". Professional sport is a business. It is the business of winning and, as such, you do whatever you must to win. Terribly cynical I know, but true. The old adage, "If you aint cheatin', you aint tryin' " comes to mind. Anyone that has ever played sports at any real level can certainly understand from whence I speak. I have mentioned my past life in baseball many times. I never doped but then again, I never got "paid" and needed to..My team was sponsored and we won in order to retain that sponsorship (along with using their equipment) but the point is, if we stopped winning, we lost our "ride". Did I try to take an extra step when I could? You bet! Did I try to exploit a weakness or sneak off the bag early or get a head start when I thought no umpire was looking? Absoluetly. I guess I "cheated". Professional athletes are paid to win. There is no silly sentiment or "pureness" to it. Win or retire. Period. And fans love winning. Now, having said this, as a true fan, I also understand the sadness many feel when a "hero" is exposed as a fraud. But, if you consider that an athlete's body is nothing more than a piece of equipment, how can you blame him?? I mean, they use the best equipment technology can offer, right? Certainly they would consider "improving" their body in any way possible? A truly difficult situation. I know what you are saying, Soy. I just do not know what the "right" answer would be... Edited at: Saturday, February 07, 2009 12:49:24 PM

[Deep Freeze] Saturday, February 07, 2009 3:47:39 PM

Soylentgreen4u a.k.a. theWOLFMAN wrote:

		Deep Freeze wrote:

		Well Soy, political affiliations aside, I find that I am in a rather difficult position when it comes to steroid use in professional sports. I mean, I am not for it but I have difficulty condemning it as "cheating". Professional sport is a business. It is the business of winning and, as such, you do whatever you must to win. Terribly cynical I know, but true. The old adage, "If you aint cheatin', you aint tryin' " comes to mind. Anyone that has ever played sports at any real level can certainly understand from whence I speak. I have mentioned my past life in baseball many times. I never doped but then again, I never got "paid" and needed to..My team was sponsored and we won in order to retain that sponsorship (along with using their equipment) but the point is, if we stopped winning, we lost our "ride". Did I try to take an extra step when I could? You bet! Did I try to exploit a weakness or sneak off the bag early or get a head start when I thought no umpire was looking? Absoluetly. I guess I "cheated". Professional athletes are paid to win. There is no silly sentiment or "pureness" to it. Win or retire. Period. And fans love winning. Now, having said this, as a true fan, I also understand the sadness many feel when a "hero" is exposed as a fraud. But, if you consider that an athlete's body is nothing more than a piece of equipment, how can you blame him?? I mean, they use the best equipment technology can offer, right? Certainly they would consider "improving" their body in any way possible? A truly difficult situation. I know what you are saying, Soy. I just do not know what the "right" answer would be... Edited at: Saturday, February 07, 2009 12:49:24 PM

[Head banger] Saturday, February 07, 2009 3:19:59 PM

I dont think he is discounting amatures, just pointing out that pro sports is a business. the love of the game is not present. its a job.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Soylentgreen4u a.k.a. theWOLFMAN from Saturday, February 07, 2009 3:06:00 PM)

Soylentgreen4u a.k.a. theWOLFMAN wrote:

		Deep Freeze wrote:

		Well Soy, political affiliations aside, I find that I am in a rather difficult position when it comes to steroid use in professional sports. I mean, I am not for it but I have difficulty condemning it as "cheating". Professional sport is a business. It is the business of winning and, as such, you do whatever you must to win. Terribly cynical I know, but true. The old adage, "If you aint cheatin', you aint tryin' " comes to mind. Anyone that has ever played sports at any real level can certainly understand from whence I speak. I have mentioned my past life in baseball many times. I never doped but then again, I never got "paid" and needed to..My team was sponsored and we won in order to retain that sponsorship (along with using their equipment) but the point is, if we stopped winning, we lost our "ride". Did I try to take an extra step when I could? You bet! Did I try to exploit a weakness or sneak off the bag early or get a head start when I thought no umpire was looking? Absoluetly. I guess I "cheated". Professional athletes are paid to win. There is no silly sentiment or "pureness" to it. Win or retire. Period. And fans love winning. Now, having said this, as a true fan, I also understand the sadness many feel when a "hero" is exposed as a fraud. But, if you consider that an athlete's body is nothing more than a piece of equipment, how can you blame him?? I mean, they use the best equipment technology can offer, right? Certainly they would consider "improving" their body in any way possible? A truly difficult situation. I know what you are saying, Soy. I just do not know what the "right" answer would be... Edited at: Saturday, February 07, 2009 12:49:24 PM

[Soylentgreen4u] Saturday, February 07, 2009 3:06:00 PM

[Head banger] Saturday, February 07, 2009 1:49:25 PM

I am fine with that. dont test for it. dont say that its banned. go ahead and do it. if you say its against the rules, then enforce it. if you alow it, I dont care. if your biceps are bigger than my waist, thats fine. kind of terifying, as you well know, but its ok.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Saturday, February 07, 2009 1:08:49 PM)

Deep Freeze wrote:

Perhaps. They do a lot of talking but the MLB officials LOVE numbers..especially when it comes to dollars and cents. Records and players that get them draw attention. They draw fans and fans PAY. Money, baby. Hard for me to see MLB doing anything about that...

Head banger wrote:

perhaps. the shoes are beter, bats are lighter. hockey, the sticks are some bizare composite material that bends. Imagine tiger golfing with woods made of wood? still, if there is going to be a rule, you need to enforce it. the pitcher still throws with his foot touching the rubber. the bases are still 90' away.
if you move towards home, you cant throw to first. its getting as close to the edge without crossing it thats key.

the players work out more. thats fine, if they want to take injections to get what they want, if MLB says its ok, then do it. if not, then MLB needs to test, and test regularily.

Deep Freeze wrote:

Maybe. I don't know, HB. I mean, you might say that steroids are like a corked bat but I just don't know. If someone develops a tree with better wood and uses it for a bat, is THAT cheating?? I just cannot say. Improved performance is improved perfomance. They have better shoes, gloves and whatnot. I do not know where one would "draw the line", as it were.

They have rules, yes. And for as long as there has been professional sports, there has been cheating. Players call it getting an "edge" and that is often admired by people. I took advantage of any edge I could find. Used psychology a lot. Got in their heads, as they say. Is that cheating, too?? Is it only cheating if they make a rule about it? Again, hard to say. Winning is all that really counts.

Head banger wrote:

perhaps if they are going to have a rule about corked bats, or roids, etc, they need to test, and test often. either that or dont have the rule

		Deep Freeze wrote:

		Well Soy, political affiliations aside, I find that I am in a rather difficult position when it comes to steroid use in professional sports. I mean, I am not for it but I have difficulty condemning it as "cheating". Professional sport is a business. It is the business of winning and, as such, you do whatever you must to win. Terribly cynical I know, but true. The old adage, "If you aint cheatin', you aint tryin' " comes to mind. Anyone that has ever played sports at any real level can certainly understand from whence I speak. I have mentioned my past life in baseball many times. I never doped but then again, I never got "paid" and needed to..My team was sponsored and we won in order to retain that sponsorship (along with using their equipment) but the point is, if we stopped winning, we lost our "ride". Did I try to take an extra step when I could? You bet! Did I try to exploit a weakness or sneak off the bag early or get a head start when I thought no umpire was looking? Absoluetly. I guess I "cheated". Professional athletes are paid to win. There is no silly sentiment or "pureness" to it. Win or retire. Period. And fans love winning. Now, having said this, as a true fan, I also understand the sadness many feel when a "hero" is exposed as a fraud. But, if you consider that an athlete's body is nothing more than a piece of equipment, how can you blame him?? I mean, they use the best equipment technology can offer, right? Certainly they would consider "improving" their body in any way possible? A truly difficult situation. I know what yiou are saying, Soy. I just do not know what the "right" answer would be...

[ron h] Saturday, February 07, 2009 1:43:43 PM

...I'm not defending Sosa, Soy...just presenting facts...McGwire was an HGH user and it was not banned at the time he was taking it...of course, you'd have to be a complete idiot to not believe Sosa juiced, and yes, he has taken tests in the past, all negative...and the all important corked bat, against a very weak (at the time) Devil Rays team...but he does have numerous bats hanging in Cooperstown from certain acheivements, they had them all x-rayed and they were all legit...so what am I missin' other than the before and after pics??...I have to believe there's something or someone who knows something...there just has to be...maybe it was Gaylord Perry...Mr. Integrity...who was giving the injections...

[Deep Freeze] Saturday, February 07, 2009 1:08:49 PM

[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Saturday, February 07, 2009 1:02:16 PM)

Head banger wrote:

Deep Freeze wrote:

Head banger wrote:

perhaps if they are going to have a rule about corked bats, or roids, etc, they need to test, and test often. either that or dont have the rule

		Deep Freeze wrote:

		Well Soy, political affiliations aside, I find that I am in a rather difficult position when it comes to steroid use in professional sports. I mean, I am not for it but I have difficulty condemning it as "cheating". Professional sport is a business. It is the business of winning and, as such, you do whatever you must to win. Terribly cynical I know, but true. The old adage, "If you aint cheatin', you aint tryin' " comes to mind. Anyone that has ever played sports at any real level can certainly understand from whence I speak. I have mentioned my past life in baseball many times. I never doped but then again, I never got "paid" and needed to..My team was sponsored and we won in order to retain that sponsorship (along with using their equipment) but the point is, if we stopped winning, we lost our "ride". Did I try to take an extra step when I could? You bet! Did I try to exploit a weakness or sneak off the bag early or get a head start when I thought no umpire was looking? Absoluetly. I guess I "cheated". Professional athletes are paid to win. There is no silly sentiment or "pureness" to it. Win or retire. Period. And fans love winning. Now, having said this, as a true fan, I also understand the sadness many feel when a "hero" is exposed as a fraud. But, if you consider that an athlete's body is nothing more than a piece of equipment, how can you blame him?? I mean, they use the best equipment technology can offer, right? Certainly they would consider "improving" their body in any way possible? A truly difficult situation. I know what yiou are saying, Soy. I just do not know what the "right" answer would be...

[Head banger] Saturday, February 07, 2009 1:02:16 PM

Deep Freeze wrote:

Head banger wrote:

perhaps if they are going to have a rule about corked bats, or roids, etc, they need to test, and test often. either that or dont have the rule

		Deep Freeze wrote:

		Well Soy, political affiliations aside, I find that I am in a rather difficult position when it comes to steroid use in professional sports. I mean, I am not for it but I have difficulty condemning it as "cheating". Professional sport is a business. It is the business of winning and, as such, you do whatever you must to win. Terribly cynical I know, but true. The old adage, "If you aint cheatin', you aint tryin' " comes to mind. Anyone that has ever played sports at any real level can certainly understand from whence I speak. I have mentioned my past life in baseball many times. I never doped but then again, I never got "paid" and needed to..My team was sponsored and we won in order to retain that sponsorship (along with using their equipment) but the point is, if we stopped winning, we lost our "ride". Did I try to take an extra step when I could? You bet! Did I try to exploit a weakness or sneak off the bag early or get a head start when I thought no umpire was looking? Absoluetly. I guess I "cheated". Professional athletes are paid to win. There is no silly sentiment or "pureness" to it. Win or retire. Period. And fans love winning. Now, having said this, as a true fan, I also understand the sadness many feel when a "hero" is exposed as a fraud. But, if you consider that an athlete's body is nothing more than a piece of equipment, how can you blame him?? I mean, they use the best equipment technology can offer, right? Certainly they would consider "improving" their body in any way possible? A truly difficult situation. I know what yiou are saying, Soy. I just do not know what the "right" answer would be...

[Deep Freeze] Saturday, February 07, 2009 12:57:01 PM

[Head banger] Saturday, February 07, 2009 12:49:15 PM

perhaps if they are going to have a rule about corked bats, or roids, etc, they need to test, and test often. either that or dont have the rule
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Saturday, February 07, 2009 12:42:42 PM)

[Deep Freeze] Saturday, February 07, 2009 12:42:42 PM

Well Soy, political affiliations aside, I find that I am in a rather difficult position when it comes to steroid use in professional sports. I mean, I am not for it but I have difficulty condemning it as "cheating". Professional sport is a business. It is the business of winning and, as such, you do whatever you must to win. Terribly cynical I know, but true. The old adage, "If you aint cheatin', you aint tryin' " comes to mind.

Anyone that has ever played sports at any real level can certainly understand from whence I speak. I have mentioned my past life in baseball many times. I never doped but then again, I never got "paid" and needed to..My team was sponsored and we won in order to retain that sponsorship (along with using their equipment) but the point is, if we stopped winning, we lost our "ride". Did I try to take an extra step when I could? You bet! Did I try to exploit a weakness or sneak off the bag early or get a head start when I thought no umpire was looking? Absoluetly. I guess I "cheated".

Professional athletes are paid to win. There is no silly sentiment or "pureness" to it. Win or retire. Period. And fans love winning. Now, having said this, as a true fan, I also understand the sadness many feel when a "hero" is exposed as a fraud. But, if you consider that an athlete's body is nothing more than a piece of equipment, how can you blame him?? I mean, they use the best equipment technology can offer, right? Certainly they would consider "improving" their body in any way possible? A truly difficult situation. I know what you are saying, Soy. I just do not know what the "right" answer would be...

Edited at: Saturday, February 07, 2009 12:49:24 PM

[Head banger] Saturday, February 07, 2009 11:41:08 AM

yeah, come on think about it!!\
ha!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Soylentgreen4u a.k.a. theWOLFMAN from Saturday, February 07, 2009 11:33:46 AM)

[Soylentgreen4u] Saturday, February 07, 2009 11:40:36 AM

NOT TO MENTION,I'LL BETCHA HE'S A REPUBLICAN TOO!...(tee-hee couldn't resist)
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Saturday, February 07, 2009 11:25:04 AM)

[Soylentgreen4u] Saturday, February 07, 2009 11:38:49 AM

HI RON...WELL AN ITEM OR TWO THEN PERHAPS...HOW ABOUT A BEFORE AND AFTER PIC...THE
FACT HE DIDN'T SPEAK (OR WAS IT UNDERSTAND) ENGLISH AT THE HEARINGS INTO STEROID
USE.....IS IT NOT ALSO TRUE THAT HE JUST WON'T TAKE A TEST OR NEVER BEEN TESTED?...
THEN THERE'S THE WHOLE CORKED BAT THING,HOW LONG DID THAT REALLY GO ON?

[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by ronhartsell from Saturday, February 07, 2009 11:32:16 AM)

[Soylentgreen4u] Saturday, February 07, 2009 11:33:46 AM

I GUESS I WAS HAVING A STUPID MOMENT!...

[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Saturday, February 07, 2009 11:25:04 AM)

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