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Social Issues and Politics
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[_strat_] Friday, February 06, 2009 10:26:47 AM 
There would still be a director, and there would be people to organize and run things - a workers council is supposed to be the body that they answer to. Kinda like the CEO must answer to the business owners, who are not the workers in the company.
  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Friday, February 06, 2009 7:22:38 AM)
[Head banger] Friday, February 06, 2009 7:23:33 AM 
stay at home moms, after the maternaty leave do.  and in our income stats, I am sure most forms of suport dont count.
  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by _strat_ from Friday, February 06, 2009 2:11:02 AM)
[Head banger] Friday, February 06, 2009 7:22:38 AM 
would you have different control if a workers council ran the company?  your one voice would get heard?  what if they screwed up, would the state simply give the company more money to keep going.  would you keep building VCR's for the next 20 years?  dvd and pvr have effectivly killed it, how come the workers didnt see it coming?  works both ways.
  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by _strat_ from Friday, February 06, 2009 2:32:36 AM)
[_strat_] Friday, February 06, 2009 2:32:36 AM 
Well, vote....My vote and a million others. The majority has the control, wheter I am with it or against it. Not to mention that essentialy all candidates are business friendly... In a way that benefits business owners, not the employees. Probably the best thing to do would be to dig out the Communists, they were the opposite. And if it was up to me, thats how things would be run. Freedom of press, speech... No problem. Prostitution, gay marriage, light drugs, no problem either, personal things. NO private businesses. Workers councils and state planning. That worked. It gave us half a century of peace and prosperity. Two decades of capitalism gave us misery and foreign dependancy. No contest here.

I know to avoid people who want me to work too much. Infact, I can, since we have the laws that forbid it, and means to enforce them - both thanks to the unions and class struggle - so I guess that Im covered here, at least better than most working people in the world.

In any case... Some control, I guess so. But not nearly enough. I dont make any decisions on how to run the company. What if people who do screw up, and I lose the job because of their incompetence?
  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, February 05, 2009 7:56:36 PM)
[_strat_] Friday, February 06, 2009 2:11:02 AM 
No one "earns" 0. If nothing else, there is at least the social support. And those that earn 1000 (and suppose 1000 is the average) are not really doing anything to raise or lover the average. 

That, and the few on the top earn more than all of us combined.
  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, February 05, 2009 7:50:35 PM)
[_strat_] Friday, February 06, 2009 2:06:16 AM 
Im sure that Picard will be more than happy to take you out for both.
  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Soylentgreen4u a.k.a. theWOLFMAN from Thursday, February 05, 2009 5:31:36 PM)
[Head banger] Thursday, February 05, 2009 8:47:43 PM 
not me, its you!!!!
  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Soylentgreen4u a.k.a. theWOLFMAN from Thursday, February 05, 2009 8:14:12 PM)
[Soylentgreen4u] Thursday, February 05, 2009 8:14:12 PM 
HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL NO!!!!!!!!....WE WILL JUST PUNISH THE CORRUPT...AND WHAT'S 
THIS AGAINST THE LAW STUFF WITH ANIMALS,YOU'RE IMAGINING?....SHOULD SOMEONE  BE MONITORING THE WEBSITES YOU'RE VISITING?.......SICKO!!!!!!!!!!

  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, February 05, 2009 7:43:18 PM)
[Head banger] Thursday, February 05, 2009 7:56:36 PM 
skils transfer.  its not like you only learn a computer system that your present company is the only one who uses, you need all kinds of skills.  most transfer.  your planing to get into an industry that is creating weath, therefore will survive.  BTW, avoid rent a car right now.  ha!

effort, you control.  demand, well its quite vaguely under your conttrol.  voting for business friendly candidates, etc....  but within reason, anyone who wants you to work like bob cratchet, avoid.  the pendulum can swing to far.  but there is some control
  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by _strat_ from Thursday, February 05, 2009 9:38:36 AM)
[Head banger] Thursday, February 05, 2009 7:50:35 PM 
but if a million people earn 1000 per month, it skews the average right close to that.  sure you get a few on the top end, you get some who earn 0.  shit happens
  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by _strat_ from Thursday, February 05, 2009 9:36:05 AM)
[Head banger] Thursday, February 05, 2009 7:49:46 PM 
it is a perfect world, you just have to do whatever I say.  ha!

what changes.  lets see.  president, of say the USA?  well, for starters, a lot of things need to be simpler.  

tax code.  10% federal income tax with a basic personal exemption.  if I had my way, it would be 20000, but I dont have access to your budget.  NO other deductions or income taxes.  

legalize marajuana and prostitution, its a waste of time that we spend money on these things, regulate and tax them as small businesses.

no law could take 2 pages typed in 12 point font.  as soon as it ran of a page with normal margins, its got to be sent back to the drawing board.

hows that for a start?
  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by ronhartsell from Thursday, February 05, 2009 6:25:23 PM)
[Head banger] Thursday, February 05, 2009 7:43:18 PM 
soy, if there are that many of you, does it count as a union?

and this thing you do to cows or moose?? I dont want to know, its probably against the law
  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Soylentgreen4u a.k.a. theWOLFMAN from Thursday, February 05, 2009 7:12:41 PM)
[Soylentgreen4u] Thursday, February 05, 2009 7:12:41 PM 

DON'T PULL ME INTO YOUR ARENA OF SHAME! ...AND LEAVE MY COWS AND MEESE (HERD OF MOOSE) ALONE!......

...DEATH!...DEAAAAAAAAATH!!! TO ALL UNIONS AND THEIR CORRUPTION OF THE INNOCENT...
FOR OUR NAME IS 'LEGION' AND WE ARE MANY... 


  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by ronhartsell from Thursday, February 05, 2009 6:25:23 PM)
[ron h] Thursday, February 05, 2009 6:25:23 PM 
...Look Head banger, this isn't a perfect world, and no system is perfect , either...if things worked like you think they would, then maybe all this is moot...but I can't find that place you talk about...it isn't like that where I'm at...I'm really not even a hard core union guy...I've held management positions as well, in both union and non-union plants...but this is where I'm at now in my life, and if this is where I have to be, then I want to be as informed as possible and try to do the best I can everyday...this is the world I have to live in, it's not like I make the rules, ya know?...but I'm forced to play the game, so I play it...we can obviously throw numbers and statistics all day and all night (that's obvious) with you and Strat and MG~ and whomever else...and I don't do it because I think I'm right and your wrong...it's healthy to hear other points of view, and I thank you all for this...but I really would like to find this 'society' or 'workplace' that is so great, they're welcome to break ground in my neck of the woods any time...

...let me ask you this, and be honest...if you, any of you were the president...what changes (policies or whatever) would you feel you would have to make in order to change all that we've been talking about the past few days...think about it...you have the power to do whatever you want...what changes would you make??...

...except the price of beer...Soy would have a cow (or a moose ),,,
Edited at: Thursday, February 05, 2009 6:28:49 PM
[Soylentgreen4u] Thursday, February 05, 2009 5:37:01 PM 

HEY WHISKEY! ...THANKS...AND YOU'RE RIGHT,I THINK WE SHOULD TOO,THOSE FLOUNDEROUS EAGLE MURDERERS!


  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by WhiskeyWoman from Wednesday, February 04, 2009 12:16:50 PM)
[Soylentgreen4u] Thursday, February 05, 2009 5:31:36 PM 
DON'T I AT LEAST GET DINNER AND DRINKS FIRST?... ...
  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by _strat_ from Wednesday, February 04, 2009 1:32:13 AM)
[_strat_] Thursday, February 05, 2009 9:38:36 AM 
Effort? Yes, but you said skills before. Not interchangeable. And there is still the factor of demand, which is not even vaguely under my control.

And, yes, some companies may just train me... To work for them. If that job is gone, what then?
  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, February 05, 2009 7:56:04 AM)
[_strat_] Thursday, February 05, 2009 9:36:05 AM 
If a thousand earn a million dollars between them in a month, thats thousand dollars each, and that would be average by our standards. If one person earns a million in a month, thats the equivalent of two thousand workers on our minimal wage. And, if we take into consideration that certain people get tens of millions of dollars per year, and that there are more than just one such person, then we get that a handfull of people get as much money for sitting in the board of directors, as the rest of us (say, nine tenths of the working population) get for working.
  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, February 05, 2009 7:55:13 AM)
[Head banger] Thursday, February 05, 2009 8:02:28 AM 
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/090205/us/politics_us_usa_stimulus_buyamerican

good to see that the senate has realized that a buy american clause will hurt the industry its suposed to help.  surprised but glad to see obama leading this.  not only does it counter treatys, it makes no sense in a long term basis.
[Head banger] Thursday, February 05, 2009 7:56:04 AM 
your effort is under your control, the public education goes away, companies will train you.  I guarantee it.
  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by _strat_ from Thursday, February 05, 2009 2:08:14 AM)
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