| [Head banger] Saturday, November 17, 2012 11:28:23 AM | |
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the part I have the hardest time with is separating the band and the lable. for say rockarolla thats easy, the band is gone from it. but normaly its not that way
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Budred from Saturday, November 17, 2012 11:11:09 AM)| |  | Budred wrote: | | OK but the thing is, I never said I owned the rights and I didn't say his logic was (legally correct), I said I was trying to find
fault with his logic and couldn"t. As far as stealing music goes I could care less who approves or disapproves. The recording
industry is full of millionaires who got that way by overcharging the masses for their product and now I have a chance to get
some of that back, fuck yeah I'm going to. Also, I do still support bands that I like. I still buy cd's and I still go to concerts, so
it's not like I steal everything with no give back. I also made the same argument about (borrowing) as you did. Sometimes
downloading does lead to future sales. I downloaded every MRH except one called M3 and now own every disc.(bought)
| | | Head banger wrote: | | every concert I have ever been to prohibits recording. well except the privatly heald one in a field by a garage band that managed once to get a gig in a bar. well, no at one metalica show they sold special tickets for recording, audio and video in a pit. they did say you cant sell those. probably didnt care if they were traded. but any priest boots I have were recorded ilegaly.
DC, BUD no, you dont own the worldwide rights, you own the right to have your copy. Now if you lend it to a friend to listen to, whatever, its probably ilegal, certainly not enforcable and I wouldnt view it as wrong. now if you and a friend agree to give each other a copy of every CD, and come up with a strategy to only buy one CD between the 2 of you (or 10 or thousands like the FTP services) well thats wrong. but a loan. I lent out metolagy to a kid I know. he bought the whole priest colection that he could find. that helped the band.
DF, if this gets any higher brow, you may have to pluck your brows to stop them mixing with your hairline
| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | Shouldn't you be off playing some gig (where a kid can certainly record you and give as gifts unless strictly prohibited by band or venue)? LOL!!
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | | I just love "high brow" conversations!!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! |
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| [Budred] Saturday, November 17, 2012 11:11:09 AM | |
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OK but the thing is, I never said I owned the rights and I didn't say his logic was (legally correct), I said I was trying to find
fault with his logic and couldn"t. As far as stealing music goes I could care less who approves or disapproves. The recording
industry is full of millionaires who got that way by overcharging the masses for their product and now I have a chance to get
some of that back, fuck yeah I'm going to. Also, I do still support bands that I like. I still buy cd's and I still go to concerts, so
it's not like I steal everything with no give back. I also made the same argument about (borrowing) as you did. Sometimes
downloading does lead to future sales. I downloaded every MRH except one called M3 and now own every disc.(bought)
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Saturday, November 17, 2012 6:28:38 AM)| | | Head banger wrote: | | every concert I have ever been to prohibits recording. well except the privatly heald one in a field by a garage band that managed once to get a gig in a bar. well, no at one metalica show they sold special tickets for recording, audio and video in a pit. they did say you cant sell those. probably didnt care if they were traded. but any priest boots I have were recorded ilegaly.
DC, BUD no, you dont own the worldwide rights, you own the right to have your copy. Now if you lend it to a friend to listen to, whatever, its probably ilegal, certainly not enforcable and I wouldnt view it as wrong. now if you and a friend agree to give each other a copy of every CD, and come up with a strategy to only buy one CD between the 2 of you (or 10 or thousands like the FTP services) well thats wrong. but a loan. I lent out metolagy to a kid I know. he bought the whole priest colection that he could find. that helped the band.
DF, if this gets any higher brow, you may have to pluck your brows to stop them mixing with your hairline
| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | Shouldn't you be off playing some gig (where a kid can certainly record you and give as gifts unless strictly prohibited by band or venue)? LOL!!
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | | I just love "high brow" conversations!!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! |
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| [Head banger] Saturday, November 17, 2012 6:40:31 AM | |
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actualy, 2 of my boots were downloaded direct from robhalford.com back in the day. tucson 82 and i forget the other one. now, did rob have permission from the band, or whatever he needed to record them. dont know. not sure if those are legal, but since priest never sold those shows, or the others I traded for i guess it doesnt mater much.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Saturday, November 17, 2012 6:28:38 AM)| | | Head banger wrote: | | every concert I have ever been to prohibits recording. well except the privatly heald one in a field by a garage band that managed once to get a gig in a bar. well, no at one metalica show they sold special tickets for recording, audio and video in a pit. they did say you cant sell those. probably didnt care if they were traded. but any priest boots I have were recorded ilegaly.
DC, BUD no, you dont own the worldwide rights, you own the right to have your copy. Now if you lend it to a friend to listen to, whatever, its probably ilegal, certainly not enforcable and I wouldnt view it as wrong. now if you and a friend agree to give each other a copy of every CD, and come up with a strategy to only buy one CD between the 2 of you (or 10 or thousands like the FTP services) well thats wrong. but a loan. I lent out metolagy to a kid I know. he bought the whole priest colection that he could find. that helped the band.
DF, if this gets any higher brow, you may have to pluck your brows to stop them mixing with your hairline
| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | Shouldn't you be off playing some gig (where a kid can certainly record you and give as gifts unless strictly prohibited by band or venue)? LOL!!
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | | I just love "high brow" conversations!!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! |
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| [Head banger] Saturday, November 17, 2012 6:28:38 AM | |
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every concert I have ever been to prohibits recording. well except the privatly heald one in a field by a garage band that managed once to get a gig in a bar. well, no at one metalica show they sold special tickets for recording, audio and video in a pit. they did say you cant sell those. probably didnt care if they were traded. but any priest boots I have were recorded ilegaly.
DC, BUD no, you dont own the worldwide rights, you own the right to have your copy. Now if you lend it to a friend to listen to, whatever, its probably ilegal, certainly not enforcable and I wouldnt view it as wrong. now if you and a friend agree to give each other a copy of every CD, and come up with a strategy to only buy one CD between the 2 of you (or 10 or thousands like the FTP services) well thats wrong. but a loan. I lent out metolagy to a kid I know. he bought the whole priest colection that he could find. that helped the band.
DF, if this gets any higher brow, you may have to pluck your brows to stop them mixing with your hairline
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 9:47:52 PM)| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | Shouldn't you be off playing some gig (where a kid can certainly record you and give as gifts unless strictly prohibited by band or venue)? LOL!!
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | | I just love "high brow" conversations!!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! |
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| [guidogodoy] Friday, November 16, 2012 9:47:52 PM | |
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Shouldn't you be off playing some gig (where a kid can certainly record you and give as gifts unless strictly prohibited by band or venue)? LOL!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Friday, November 16, 2012 8:46:23 PM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | | I just love "high brow" conversations!!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! |
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| [Deep Freeze] Friday, November 16, 2012 8:46:23 PM | |
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| I just love "high brow" conversations!!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! |
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| [guidogodoy] Friday, November 16, 2012 6:42:39 PM | |
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No. Technically you are not the complete "owner" of it. You do not own the intellectual property rights nor copyright to it. You basically bought a license for private, personal use. It is not "yours" to give as a gift.
Nice theory, though. You best read up on RIAA law while you can. I don't think you'll be able to access a computer once they finish with you. www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by DemonCat from Friday, November 16, 2012 11:39:08 AM)| | | DemonCat wrote: | | My response to the anti-piracy warning issued by the FBI is this: I bought the cd, dvd etc. I'm the owner of it and all content on it. I therefore "authorize" myself to be able to share it with the world. I do so as a "gift".
(Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 12:03:48 AM)
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guidogodoy wrote: |
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Ok, then. Despite the huge "FBI Anti-Piracy Warning: Unauthorized copying is punishible under federal law" that is stamped on the back of a cd by the Federal Bureau of Investigation / Department of Justice" you still think it is legal? Do you think the same of a DVD that you copy? How about a book? Would you lump them into the same category as a CD? Don't they, like the electric company, have fixed costs (machinery) plus static costs of distribution, artwork, etc., plus more dynamic costs such as Big Box store discounts, printing, etc.? While I am glad to hear that you paid for SFV, to be honest, your argument makes no sense to me.
Do you think that the production costs of making a DVD, video game, computer OS/software or music are so different? Sure, some cost more, some cost less. Moral is that they all COST. Would you steal a CD from a store? I hope not (at your age...we ignore what we did when we were younger...heh). What possible difference could you make between going into a store and stealing a CD vs. downloading an illegal copy? It is easier?! How about that DVD question. I have been in many a city were you can buy perfect pirate copies on the street. While I can buy it for pennies, is it right? Upstairs I have a couple of Rolex watches I bought in Brazil for about $10USD. Those are certainly fakes but it is a tangible good that someone (typically poor) took time to construct. I would never be able to afford (or want) a Rolex in any case. However, did I steal from Rolex because I bought a knock-off? No. I'd never EVER buy one. Downloading a CD, though, hits closer to home. Rolex won't go out of business because I bought a fake watch. A certain band might not be able to pay bills if their cds don't sell. Pay to support your favorite bands, is my point. The Justin B. / boyband machine will roll us otherwise.
Parting thought? When you "import" a store-bought CD to your harddrive using Media Player you are probably importing in WMV format. Lossy, IOW. No matter. If you legally own the recording, you are fine. The people who download without ever having once paid for the music are both engaging in illegal activities as well as damaging the genre of music we love. Low sales and those bands will go to no-name labels and then disappear. Bieber effect. Pop sells. Metal doesn't.
(Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM)
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Head banger wrote: |
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lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
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guidogodoy wrote: |
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Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
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Head banger wrote: |
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the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
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guidogodoy wrote: |
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You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
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Head banger wrote: |
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See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
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guidogodoy wrote: |
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Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
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Head banger wrote: |
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I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
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guidogodoy wrote: |
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First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
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Head banger wrote: |
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Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
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Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 12:06:35 AM |
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:43:18 AM |
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| [Brian_Evans] Friday, November 16, 2012 1:46:37 PM | |
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Right on man, peer-to- peer file sharing.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by DemonCat from Friday, November 16, 2012 11:39:08 AM)| | | DemonCat wrote: | | My response to the anti-piracy warning issued by the FBI is this: I bought the cd, dvd etc. I'm the owner of it and all content on it. I therefore "authorize" myself to be able to share it with the world. I do so as a "gift".
(Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 12:03:48 AM)
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guidogodoy wrote: |
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Ok, then. Despite the huge "FBI Anti-Piracy Warning: Unauthorized copying is punishible under federal law" that is stamped on the back of a cd by the Federal Bureau of Investigation / Department of Justice" you still think it is legal? Do you think the same of a DVD that you copy? How about a book? Would you lump them into the same category as a CD? Don't they, like the electric company, have fixed costs (machinery) plus static costs of distribution, artwork, etc., plus more dynamic costs such as Big Box store discounts, printing, etc.? While I am glad to hear that you paid for SFV, to be honest, your argument makes no sense to me.
Do you think that the production costs of making a DVD, video game, computer OS/software or music are so different? Sure, some cost more, some cost less. Moral is that they all COST. Would you steal a CD from a store? I hope not (at your age...we ignore what we did when we were younger...heh). What possible difference could you make between going into a store and stealing a CD vs. downloading an illegal copy? It is easier?! How about that DVD question. I have been in many a city were you can buy perfect pirate copies on the street. While I can buy it for pennies, is it right? Upstairs I have a couple of Rolex watches I bought in Brazil for about $10USD. Those are certainly fakes but it is a tangible good that someone (typically poor) took time to construct. I would never be able to afford (or want) a Rolex in any case. However, did I steal from Rolex because I bought a knock-off? No. I'd never EVER buy one. Downloading a CD, though, hits closer to home. Rolex won't go out of business because I bought a fake watch. A certain band might not be able to pay bills if their cds don't sell. Pay to support your favorite bands, is my point. The Justin B. / boyband machine will roll us otherwise.
Parting thought? When you "import" a store-bought CD to your harddrive using Media Player you are probably importing in WMV format. Lossy, IOW. No matter. If you legally own the recording, you are fine. The people who download without ever having once paid for the music are both engaging in illegal activities as well as damaging the genre of music we love. Low sales and those bands will go to no-name labels and then disappear. Bieber effect. Pop sells. Metal doesn't.
(Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM)
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Head banger wrote: |
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lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
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guidogodoy wrote: |
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Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
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Head banger wrote: |
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the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
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guidogodoy wrote: |
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You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
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Head banger wrote: |
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See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
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guidogodoy wrote: |
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Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
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Head banger wrote: |
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I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
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guidogodoy wrote: |
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First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
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Head banger wrote: |
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Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
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Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 12:06:35 AM |
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:43:18 AM |
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| [Budred] Friday, November 16, 2012 1:34:16 PM | |
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I'm trying to find fault with your logic but I can't. 
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by DemonCat from Friday, November 16, 2012 11:39:08 AM)| | | DemonCat wrote: | | My response to the anti-piracy warning issued by the FBI is this: I bought the cd, dvd etc. I'm the owner of it and all content on it. I therefore "authorize" myself to be able to share it with the world. I do so as a "gift".
(Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 12:03:48 AM)
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guidogodoy wrote: |
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Ok, then. Despite the huge "FBI Anti-Piracy Warning: Unauthorized copying is punishible under federal law" that is stamped on the back of a cd by the Federal Bureau of Investigation / Department of Justice" you still think it is legal? Do you think the same of a DVD that you copy? How about a book? Would you lump them into the same category as a CD? Don't they, like the electric company, have fixed costs (machinery) plus static costs of distribution, artwork, etc., plus more dynamic costs such as Big Box store discounts, printing, etc.? While I am glad to hear that you paid for SFV, to be honest, your argument makes no sense to me.
Do you think that the production costs of making a DVD, video game, computer OS/software or music are so different? Sure, some cost more, some cost less. Moral is that they all COST. Would you steal a CD from a store? I hope not (at your age...we ignore what we did when we were younger...heh). What possible difference could you make between going into a store and stealing a CD vs. downloading an illegal copy? It is easier?! How about that DVD question. I have been in many a city were you can buy perfect pirate copies on the street. While I can buy it for pennies, is it right? Upstairs I have a couple of Rolex watches I bought in Brazil for about $10USD. Those are certainly fakes but it is a tangible good that someone (typically poor) took time to construct. I would never be able to afford (or want) a Rolex in any case. However, did I steal from Rolex because I bought a knock-off? No. I'd never EVER buy one. Downloading a CD, though, hits closer to home. Rolex won't go out of business because I bought a fake watch. A certain band might not be able to pay bills if their cds don't sell. Pay to support your favorite bands, is my point. The Justin B. / boyband machine will roll us otherwise.
Parting thought? When you "import" a store-bought CD to your harddrive using Media Player you are probably importing in WMV format. Lossy, IOW. No matter. If you legally own the recording, you are fine. The people who download without ever having once paid for the music are both engaging in illegal activities as well as damaging the genre of music we love. Low sales and those bands will go to no-name labels and then disappear. Bieber effect. Pop sells. Metal doesn't.
(Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM)
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Head banger wrote: |
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lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
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guidogodoy wrote: |
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Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
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Head banger wrote: |
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the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
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guidogodoy wrote: |
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You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
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Head banger wrote: |
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See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
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guidogodoy wrote: |
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Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
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Head banger wrote: |
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I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
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guidogodoy wrote: |
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First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
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Head banger wrote: |
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Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
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Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 12:06:35 AM |
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:43:18 AM |
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| [DemonCat] Friday, November 16, 2012 11:39:08 AM | |
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My response to the anti-piracy warning issued by the FBI is this: I bought the cd, dvd etc. I'm the owner of it and all content on it. I therefore "authorize" myself to be able to share it with the world. I do so as a "gift".
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 12:03:48 AM)
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guidogodoy wrote: |
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Ok, then. Despite the huge "FBI Anti-Piracy Warning: Unauthorized copying is punishible under federal law" that is stamped on the back of a cd by the Federal Bureau of Investigation / Department of Justice" you still think it is legal? Do you think the same of a DVD that you copy? How about a book? Would you lump them into the same category as a CD? Don't they, like the electric company, have fixed costs (machinery) plus static costs of distribution, artwork, etc., plus more dynamic costs such as Big Box store discounts, printing, etc.? While I am glad to hear that you paid for SFV, to be honest, your argument makes no sense to me.
Do you think that the production costs of making a DVD, video game, computer OS/software or music are so different? Sure, some cost more, some cost less. Moral is that they all COST. Would you steal a CD from a store? I hope not (at your age...we ignore what we did when we were younger...heh). What possible difference could you make between going into a store and stealing a CD vs. downloading an illegal copy? It is easier?! How about that DVD question. I have been in many a city were you can buy perfect pirate copies on the street. While I can buy it for pennies, is it right? Upstairs I have a couple of Rolex watches I bought in Brazil for about $10USD. Those are certainly fakes but it is a tangible good that someone (typically poor) took time to construct. I would never be able to afford (or want) a Rolex in any case. However, did I steal from Rolex because I bought a knock-off? No. I'd never EVER buy one. Downloading a CD, though, hits closer to home. Rolex won't go out of business because I bought a fake watch. A certain band might not be able to pay bills if their cds don't sell. Pay to support your favorite bands, is my point. The Justin B. / boyband machine will roll us otherwise.
Parting thought? When you "import" a store-bought CD to your harddrive using Media Player you are probably importing in WMV format. Lossy, IOW. No matter. If you legally own the recording, you are fine. The people who download without ever having once paid for the music are both engaging in illegal activities as well as damaging the genre of music we love. Low sales and those bands will go to no-name labels and then disappear. Bieber effect. Pop sells. Metal doesn't.
(Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM)
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Head banger wrote: |
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lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
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guidogodoy wrote: |
| |
Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
| |
|
Head banger wrote: |
| |
the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
| |
|
guidogodoy wrote: |
| |
You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
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Head banger wrote: |
| |
See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
| |
|
guidogodoy wrote: |
| |
Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
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Head banger wrote: |
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I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
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|
guidogodoy wrote: |
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First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
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Head banger wrote: |
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Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
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Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 12:06:35 AM |
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:43:18 AM |
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| [Head banger] Friday, November 16, 2012 8:07:59 AM | |
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IOW? yes its lossy. I have crappy speakers and listen at work, so its not at "real metal volume"
and yes, lets ignore what we did when we were 12. those god awefull tapes made by holding a tape recorder beside the record player.....
and way back at the begining I said, if you paid for it once. so, I have rocka rolla on cassete. now I have no desire to own it on CD. if I want to hear one song, youtube is there for that one time. but to me, I paid for RR. the band got paid, sony or whoever produced it got paid, gull mostly got paid. maybe thats a bad example. still its the reality.
if I wanted to buy a book, then manage to scan it onto my computer (asside from needing my head examined) I dont see an issue. same with the DVD. if I get it from the library or the video rental place, then yep, its an issue.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 12:03:48 AM)| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | Ok, then. Despite the huge "FBI Anti-Piracy Warning: Unauthorized copying is punishible under federal law" that is stamped on the back of a cd by the Federal Bureau of Investigation / Department of Justice" you still think it is legal? Do you think the same of a DVD that you copy? How about a book? Would you lump them into the same category as a CD? Don't they, like the electric company, have fixed costs (machinery) plus static costs of distribution, artwork, etc., plus more dynamic costs such as Big Box store discounts, printing, etc.? While I am glad to hear that you paid for SFV, to be honest, your argument makes no sense to me.
Do you think that the production costs of making a DVD, video game, computer OS/software or music are so different? Sure, some cost more, some cost less. Moral is that they all COST. Would you steal a CD from a store? I hope not (at your age...we ignore what we did when we were younger...heh). What possible difference could you make between going into a store and stealing a CD vs. downloading an illegal copy? It is easier?! How about that DVD question. I have been in many a city were you can buy perfect pirate copies on the street. While I can buy it for pennies, is it right? Upstairs I have a couple of Rolex watches I bought in Brazil for about $10USD. Those are certainly fakes but it is a tangible good that someone (typically poor) took time to construct. I would never be able to afford (or want) a Rolex in any case. However, did I steal from Rolex because I bought a knock-off? No. I'd never EVER buy one. Downloading a CD, though, hits closer to home. Rolex won't go out of business because I bought a fake watch. A certain band might not be able to pay bills if their cds don't sell. Pay to support your favorite bands, is my point. The Justin B. / boyband machine will roll us otherwise.
Parting thought? When you "import" a store-bought CD to your harddrive using Media Player you are probably importing in WMV format. Lossy, IOW. No matter. If you legally own the recording, you are fine. The people who download without ever having once paid for the music are both engaging in illegal activities as well as damaging the genre of music we love. Low sales and those bands will go to no-name labels and then disappear. Bieber effect. Pop sells. Metal doesn't.
(Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM)
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Head banger wrote: |
| |
lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
| |
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guidogodoy wrote: |
| |
Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
| |
|
Head banger wrote: |
| |
the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
| |
|
guidogodoy wrote: |
| |
You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
| |
|
Head banger wrote: |
| |
See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
| |
|
guidogodoy wrote: |
| |
Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
| |
|
Head banger wrote: |
| |
I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
| |
|
guidogodoy wrote: |
| |
First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
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|
Head banger wrote: |
| |
Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
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Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 12:06:35 AM |
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| [Budred] Friday, November 16, 2012 1:10:07 AM | |
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I don't have anyone on ignore. I won't do that.
I ignore you when you try to entice me into a back and forth by not responding.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Brian_Evans from Thursday, November 15, 2012 5:23:11 PM)| | | Brian_Evans wrote: | | Wow ..didn't realize you had me on ignore ..oh well. One last thing, just ignore that guy about downloading ...he's just on a kick.
| | | Budred wrote: | | Brian, I ignore everything you say to me because I don't want any more back and forths with people here
and I still feel like I did you wrong in the beginning. If you wouldn't see "Pumpkinhead" even if they paid you that's your right.
| | | Brian_Evans wrote: | | I wouldn't go see "pumkinhead" if they paid me $200.00... no offense Bud.
well...I guess I would for $300
Edited at: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:20:54 AM |
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| [guidogodoy] Friday, November 16, 2012 12:03:48 AM | |
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Ok, then. Despite the huge "FBI Anti-Piracy Warning: Unauthorized copying is punishible under federal law" that is stamped on the back of a cd by the Federal Bureau of Investigation / Department of Justice" you still think it is legal? Do you think the same of a DVD that you copy? How about a book? Would you lump them into the same category as a CD? Don't they, like the electric company, have fixed costs (machinery) plus static costs of distribution, artwork, etc., plus more dynamic costs such as Big Box store discounts, printing, etc.? While I am glad to hear that you paid for SFV, to be honest, your argument makes no sense to me.
Do you think that the production costs of making a DVD, video game, computer OS/software or music are so different? Sure, some cost more, some cost less. Moral is that they all COST. Would you steal a CD from a store? I hope not (at your age...we ignore what we did when we were younger...heh). What possible difference could you make between going into a store and stealing a CD vs. downloading an illegal copy? It is easier?! How about that DVD question. I have been in many a city were you can buy perfect pirate copies on the street. While I can buy it for pennies, is it right? Upstairs I have a couple of Rolex watches I bought in Brazil for about $10USD. Those are certainly fakes but it is a tangible good that someone (typically poor) took time to construct. I would never be able to afford (or want) a Rolex in any case. However, did I steal from Rolex because I bought a knock-off? No. I'd never EVER buy one. Downloading a CD, though, hits closer to home. Rolex won't go out of business because I bought a fake watch. A certain band might not be able to pay bills if their cds don't sell. Pay to support your favorite bands, is my point. The Justin B. / boyband machine will roll us otherwise.
Parting thought? When you "import" a store-bought CD to your harddrive using Media Player you are probably importing in WMV format. Lossy, IOW. No matter. If you legally own the recording, you are fine. The people who download without ever having once paid for the music are both engaging in illegal activities as well as damaging the genre of music we love. Low sales and those bands will go to no-name labels and then disappear. Bieber effect. Pop sells. Metal doesn't.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM)
| |
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Head banger wrote: |
| |
lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
| |
|
guidogodoy wrote: |
| |
Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
| |
|
Head banger wrote: |
| |
the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
| |
|
guidogodoy wrote: |
| |
You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
| |
|
Head banger wrote: |
| |
See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
| |
|
guidogodoy wrote: |
| |
Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
| |
|
Head banger wrote: |
| |
I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
| |
|
guidogodoy wrote: |
| |
First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
| |
|
Head banger wrote: |
| |
Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
|
|
|
|
|
|
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|
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 12:06:35 AM |
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| [Head banger] Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM | |
|
lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Wednesday, November 14, 2012 11:10:07 PM)| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
| | | Head banger wrote: | | the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
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| [Brian_Evans] Thursday, November 15, 2012 5:23:11 PM | |
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Wow ..didn't realize you had me on ignore ..oh well. One last thing, just ignore that guy about downloading ...he's just on a kick.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Budred from Monday, November 12, 2012 2:30:55 PM)| | | Budred wrote: | | Brian, I ignore everything you say to me because I don't want any more back and forths with people here
and I still feel like I did you wrong in the beginning. If you wouldn't see "Pumpkinhead" even if they paid you that's your right.
| | | Brian_Evans wrote: | | I wouldn't go see "pumkinhead" if they paid me $200.00...no offense Bud.
well...I guess I would for $300
Edited at: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:20:54 AM |
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| [guidogodoy] Wednesday, November 14, 2012 11:10:07 PM | |
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Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Wednesday, November 14, 2012 10:00:59 PM)| | | Head banger wrote: | | the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
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| [Head banger] Wednesday, November 14, 2012 10:00:59 PM | |
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the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Wednesday, November 14, 2012 8:42:11 AM)| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
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| [guidogodoy] Wednesday, November 14, 2012 8:42:11 AM | |
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You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Wednesday, November 14, 2012 8:24:37 AM)| | | Head banger wrote: | | See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
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| [Head banger] Wednesday, November 14, 2012 8:24:37 AM | |
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See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Monday, November 12, 2012 11:33:00 PM)| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
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| [guidogodoy] Monday, November 12, 2012 11:33:00 PM | |
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Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Monday, November 12, 2012 11:03:37 PM)| | | Head banger wrote: | | I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
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| [Head banger] Monday, November 12, 2012 11:03:37 PM | |
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I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Monday, November 12, 2012 6:05:17 PM)| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
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| [Deep Freeze] Monday, November 12, 2012 6:21:58 PM | |
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Wow
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Monday, November 12, 2012 5:48:33 PM)| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | Well, maybe there is a start: you actually think I am pissed. Believe me, there are far bigger things to be concerned about and a discussion on the internet isn't one of them.
Now, just for argument's sake, you said that you liked the new VH but openly said that you didn't buy it. Not brain surgery there, you stole it. It was for sale and available yet you chose not to pay for it. That is what we call stealing.
You made the comment that "some of us can't buy everything we want." I argue that if you have the money to see as many concerts that you do, plus all the gas, food and lodging included, you yave a poor arguement there. After all, you were the one who showed off a pretty freaky tattoo that you claimed took hours. Don't know for sure but I will bet you anything that you actually paid the person for their hard work. Think albums come from the sky? Nobody makes livings off of them as musicians, producers, tech, etc.? Still, claim that "you don't get it?" You are a thief in that you stole someone's hard work for your own personal enjoyment. Is that clear enough?
Am I butt-hurt (always loved that JD expression) that you stole from VH? It was a clear case of theft but I'd actually be upset had you done that to Priest. Here we have HR buying multiple copies to make up for people who don't pay. Might not hurt a bigger band but, as KK even says, it makes things VERY tough for new bands nowadays. Yes, including MRH which, I assume, you actually purchase. Why bother paying when you can download just about every album for free? You are obviously not destitute. Why pay for them?
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| [guidogodoy] Monday, November 12, 2012 6:05:17 PM | |
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First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Monday, November 12, 2012 3:41:30 PM)| | | Head banger wrote: | | Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
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| [guidogodoy] Monday, November 12, 2012 5:48:33 PM | |
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Well, maybe there is a start: you actually think I am pissed. Believe me, there are far bigger things to be concerned about and a discussion on the internet isn't one of them.
Now, just for argument's sake, you said that you liked the new VH but openly said that you didn't buy it. Not brain surgery there, you stole it. It was for sale and available yet you chose not to pay for it. That is what we call stealing.
You made the comment that "some of us can't buy everything we want." I argue that if you have the money to see as many concerts that you do, plus all the gas, food and lodging included, you yave a poor arguement there. After all, you were the one who showed off a pretty freaky tattoo that you claimed took hours. Don't know for sure but I will bet you anything that you actually paid the person for their hard work. Think albums come from the sky? Nobody makes livings off of them as musicians, producers, tech, etc.? Still, claim that "you don't get it?" You are a thief in that you stole someone's hard work for your own personal enjoyment. Is that clear enough?
Am I butt-hurt (always loved that JD expression) that you stole from VH? It was a clear case of theft but I'd actually be upset had you done that to Priest. Here we have HR buying multiple copies to make up for people who don't pay. Might not hurt a bigger band but, as KK even says, it makes things VERY tough for new bands nowadays. Yes, including MRH which, I assume, you actually purchase. Why bother paying when you can download just about every album for free? You are obviously not destitute. Why pay for them?
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Budred from Monday, November 12, 2012 2:26:53 PM) |
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| [Head banger] Monday, November 12, 2012 3:41:30 PM | |
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Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
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| [metallo] Monday, November 12, 2012 3:28:25 PM | |
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Adam Ant & the Ants, all three albums.
It's not metal but so fantastic. |
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| [Budred] Monday, November 12, 2012 2:31:47 PM | |
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Any other issues?
Anyone? |
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| [Budred] Monday, November 12, 2012 2:30:55 PM | |
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Brian, I ignore everything you say to me because I don't want any more back and forths with people here
and I still feel like I did you wrong in the beginning. If you wouldn't see "Pumpkinhead" even if they paid you that's your right.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Brian_Evans from Monday, November 12, 2012 11:13:11 AM)| | | Brian_Evans wrote: | | I wouldn't go see "pumkinhead" if they paid me $200.00...no offense Bud.
well...I guess I would for $300
Edited at: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:20:54 AM |
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| [Budred] Monday, November 12, 2012 2:26:53 PM | |
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You want them downloaded out of existence because I would rather pay for their stuff than Van Halen's.
I don't even understand half of what you're pissed about. Fair play if I can jump in a car and drive to Detroit to
see bands I've seen? What???
MRH isn't big and you and others walked out on them, man my feelings are hurt now. I'm purposely keeping
this civil. I've already deleted a couple of comments. (Trying to keep the peace even though I have no clue why.)
Maybe you could explain what your problem with me is.
I don't do anything to you.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Monday, November 12, 2012 9:29:13 AM)| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | Who said anything about going to VH concerts? You won't find any arguments with me there. However, if you can't (don't choose to, rather) spend $11 for a legal CD of a band you like then I really hope that MRH is downloaded out of existence. Fair play if you can afford to jump in a car, and drive to Detroit to see bands you've admittedly seen numerous times before, no?
Shouldn't be too hard considering the numbers I saw at both concerts I happened to attend only because they were on the bill. Right before I joined the masses and walked out, that is.
| | | Budred wrote: | | Some of us can't buy everything we want. Sometimes we have to pick and choose.
Considering Van Halen is trying to fleece the public, (80.00 to 200.00 for concert tickets and such)
and bands like MRH and their side related projects are just trying to get by I choose to give them my money.
If that means you have to disapprove then so be it.
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| [Brian_Evans] Monday, November 12, 2012 11:13:11 AM | |
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I wouldn't go see "pumkinhead" if they paid me $200.00...no offense Bud.
well...I guess I would for $300
Edited at: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:20:54 AM |
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| [guidogodoy] Monday, November 12, 2012 9:29:13 AM | |
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Who said anything about going to VH concerts? You won't find any arguments with me there. However, if you can't (don't choose to, rather) spend $11 for a legal CD of a band you like then I really hope that MRH is downloaded out of existence. Fair play if you can afford to jump in a car, and drive to Detroit to see bands you've admittedly seen numerous times before, no?
Shouldn't be too hard considering the numbers I saw at both concerts I happened to attend only because they were on the bill. Right before I joined the masses and walked out, that is.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Budred from Monday, November 12, 2012 5:46:22 AM)| | | Budred wrote: | | Some of us can't buy everything we want. Sometimes we have to pick and choose.
Considering Van Halen is trying to fleece the public, (80.00 to 200.00 for concert tickets and such)
and bands like MRH and their side related projects are just trying to get by I choose to give them my money.
If that means you have to disapprove then so be it.
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| [Budred] Monday, November 12, 2012 5:46:22 AM | |
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Some of us can't buy everything we want. Sometimes we have to pick and choose.
Considering Van Halen is trying to fleece the public, (80.00 to 200.00 for concert tickets and such)
and bands like MRH and their side related projects are just trying to get by I choose to give them my money.
If that means you have to disapprove then so be it.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Monday, November 12, 2012 12:27:31 AM) |
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| [guidogodoy] Monday, November 12, 2012 12:27:31 AM | |
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Nope. Don't like the comment, Bud. You proclaim to like the new VH but stole it while you obviously had the $ to actually buy it. Simply decided to spend it elsewhere such as other CDs, concerts and the gas to get you there.
We aren't kids anymore so that "copying a tape" excuse doesn't fly. Use a gun next time you decide to steal. At least you'll show some real cojones. 
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Budred from Wednesday, October 31, 2012 1:47:09 PM)
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Budred wrote: |
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@ Guido...didn't buy that album but I did steal it. I like it. I think it ranks up there with some of the early stuff.
A few shit songs but that's the norm for them. Overall a good album.
My last purchase was Saturday night at MRH's Halloween show. I bought
TENAFLY VIPER "the queen, the night and the liars"
It's a solo disc from one of the MRH vocalists. It's completely different than MRH. It's more straightforward hard rock and metal.
I think some here may enjoy it. I'm listening to a song right now called "Man On The Corner". A slower melodic song. Really good stuff.
I may post a video if I can find something on Youtube.
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Edited at: Monday, November 12, 2012 12:42:02 AM |
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| [Tania2194AD] Monday, November 05, 2012 7:49:23 AM | |
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Blackmore's Night - " A night in York" (CD).
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| [metallo] Saturday, November 03, 2012 12:14:47 PM | |
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| Screaming for vengeance, of course, also if still waiting for the new one.... |
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| [hellrider 31038] Thursday, November 01, 2012 8:56:07 PM | |
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I STILL HAVE TO FINISH MAKING THE FLAME SYSTEM AND PUT IT IN THE FIST I PLAN TO GET THE BOLTS AND NUTS I NEED ON MY WAY OVER TO HMV
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by hellrider 31038 from Thursday, November 01, 2012 6:51:26 PM)| | | hellrider 31038 wrote: | | MAYBE YOU CAN WEAR YOUR FLAMETHROWER FIST WHEN YOU GO OVER.
KICK AS? MAN OH FUC? YEAH. (Quoting Message by hellrider 31038 from Thursday, November 01, 2012 6:50:14 PM)
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hellrider 31038 wrote: |
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| IM GONNA GO OVER TO HMV ON SATURDAY |
Edited at: Thursday, November 01, 2012 6:55:17 PM |
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| [hellrider 31038] Thursday, November 01, 2012 6:51:26 PM | |
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MAYBE YOU CAN WEAR YOUR FLAMETHROWER FIST WHEN YOU GO OVER.
KICK AS? MAN OH FUC? YEAH. [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by hellrider 31038 from Thursday, November 01, 2012 6:50:14 PM)
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hellrider 31038 wrote: |
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| IM GONNA GO OVER TO HMV ON SATURDAY |
Edited at: Thursday, November 01, 2012 6:55:17 PM |
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| [hellrider 31038] Thursday, November 01, 2012 6:50:14 PM | |
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| IM GONNA GO OVER TO HMV ON SATURDAY |
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| [Head banger] Wednesday, October 31, 2012 7:01:18 PM | |
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I agree on lochness. I cant get my head around any of the Nost stuff.
I am tired of VH. so I probably wont bother, but if I ever hear tattoo tattoo again I might punch out the car stereo
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Wednesday, October 31, 2012 6:05:47 PM)| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | Why would they make a Priest video for 'War"? IDK. Not a bad tune but pales in comparison with "Persecution."
The VH album is really good overall. Shame that most won't ever hear it. BTW, "Lochness" SUCKS!!!!
| | | Head banger wrote: | | why wouldnt they release a good song for the single? Tatoo is crap. then again go back to priest releasing AOR. first single not so good there either. at least it wasnt lochness.
| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | Van Halen - A Different Kind of Truth.
Bought exactly the way it should be done. Like most of the music we collectively like, the only song I heard with VERY limited airtime on only one radio station (achBONEYARDoo) didn't exactly float my boat "Tattoo" - first thought: meh. Then, with all the crew on "That Metal Show" saying that it was the worst song on the album, I downloaded it. Damned if they weren't right! While I already had the album, I dig the artwork and also like to PAY for what I like. Bought a legal copy at Wallyworld yesterday.
Any David Lee Roth + Van Halen fan needs this recording. I think it is damn good. Shame Michael Anthony isn't on it but Wolfie does hold his own. 
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| [guidogodoy] Wednesday, October 31, 2012 6:05:47 PM | |
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Why would they make a Priest video for 'War"? IDK. Not a bad tune but pales in comparison with "Persecution."
The VH album is really good overall. Shame that most won't ever hear it. BTW, "Lochness" SUCKS!!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Wednesday, October 31, 2012 7:49:47 AM)| | | Head banger wrote: | | why wouldnt they release a good song for the single? Tatoo is crap. then again go back to priest releasing AOR. first single not so good there either. at least it wasnt lochness.
| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | Van Halen - A Different Kind of Truth.
Bought exactly the way it should be done. Like most of the music we collectively like, the only song I heard with VERY limited airtime on only one radio station (achBONEYARDoo) didn't exactly float my boat "Tattoo" - first thought: meh. Then, with all the crew on "That Metal Show" saying that it was the worst song on the album, I downloaded it. Damned if they weren't right! While I already had the album, I dig the artwork and also like to PAY for what I like. Bought a legal copy at Wallyworld yesterday.
Any David Lee Roth + Van Halen fan needs this recording. I think it is damn good. Shame Michael Anthony isn't on it but Wolfie does hold his own.
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| [Budred] Wednesday, October 31, 2012 1:47:09 PM | |
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@ Guido...didn't buy that album but I did steal it. I like it. I think it ranks up there with some of the early stuff.
A few shit songs but that's the norm for them. Overall a good album.
My last purchase was Saturday night at MRH's Halloween show. I bought
TENAFLY VIPER "the queen, the night and the liars"
It's a solo disc from one of the MRH vocalists. It's completely different than MRH. It's more straightforward hard rock and metal.
I think some here may enjoy it. I'm listening to a song right now called "Man On The Corner". A slower melodic song. Really good stuff.
I may post a video if I can find something on Youtube. |
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| [Head banger] Wednesday, October 31, 2012 7:49:47 AM | |
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why wouldnt they release a good song for the single? Tatoo is crap. then again go back to priest releasing AOR. first single not so good there either. at least it wasnt lochness.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Tuesday, October 30, 2012 9:45:19 PM)| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | Van Halen - A Different Kind of Truth.
Bought exactly the way it should be done. Like most of the music we collectively like, the only song I heard with VERY limited airtime on only one radio station (achBONEYARDoo) didn't exactly float my boat "Tattoo" - first thought: meh. Then, with all the crew on "That Metal Show" saying that it was the worst song on the album, I downloaded it. Damned if they weren't right! While I already had the album, I dig the artwork and also like to PAY for what I like. Bought a legal copy at Wallyworld yesterday.
Any David Lee Roth + Van Halen fan needs this recording. I think it is damn good. Shame Michael Anthony isn't on it but Wolfie does hold his own.
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| [guidogodoy] Tuesday, October 30, 2012 9:45:19 PM | |
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Van Halen - A Different Kind of Truth.
Bought exactly the way it should be done. Like most of the music we collectively like, the only song I heard with VERY limited airtime on only one radio station (achBONEYARDoo) didn't exactly float my boat "Tattoo" - first thought: meh. Then, with all the crew on "That Metal Show" saying that it was the worst song on the album, I downloaded it. Damned if they weren't right! While I already had the album, I dig the artwork and also like to PAY for what I like. Bought a legal copy at Wallyworld yesterday.
Any David Lee Roth + Van Halen fan needs this recording. I think it is damn good. Shame Michael Anthony isn't on it but Wolfie does hold his own.
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| [guidogodoy] Saturday, October 27, 2012 8:15:02 PM | |
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T & N - Slave to the Empire. Just arrived today and it is damn good! The "big three" from Dokken (George Lynch, Jeff Pilson, Mick Brown) deliver!
Five:  (yes, even with Ripper doing "Kiss of Death!")
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| [Tania2194AD] Saturday, October 27, 2012 3:28:36 AM | |
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Morbid Angel - Illud Divinum Insanus
2011 CD (Industrial Death Metal)
Very Heavy, but great.
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| [hellrider 31038] Wednesday, October 10, 2012 6:22:26 PM | |
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NOTHING LATELY BUT
I HAVE BEEN IMAGINING ABOUT A FEW |
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| [Pepe2] Sunday, September 30, 2012 10:31:39 PM | |
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| I'm waiting for the new Kiss CD, Monster. Should be in stores soon and I'm sure it'll be good. |
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| [Nupe The Ripper] Thursday, September 27, 2012 7:08:21 AM | |
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Railway - Climax (24-bit remastered gold disc, limited to 2000 copies)
Edited at: Thursday, September 27, 2012 7:29:03 AM |
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| [hellrider 31038] Monday, September 10, 2012 6:03:01 PM | |
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JUST RECIEVED THEM.STRANGE HOW THEY WERE NOT WRAPPED IN PLASTIC.WHATEVER.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by hellrider 31038 from Friday, September 07, 2012 5:51:54 PM)| | | hellrider 31038 wrote: | | MY SCREAMING FOR VENGEANCE 30 ANNIVERSARY CDs ARE ON THERE WAY
WOOPIE SHI?
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| [hellrider 31038] Friday, September 07, 2012 5:51:54 PM | |
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MY SCREAMING FOR VENGEANCE 30 ANNIVERSARY CDs ARE ON THERE WAY
WOOPIE SHI?
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