| [Deep Freeze] Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:16:02 AM | |
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Not so much that I"forgot", I tried to be brief! Like I said, it is very complicated. More than I can say on the Boards without writing a Kendall-sized post!! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Apologies to Kendall)
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Tuesday, March 24, 2009 9:38:44 AM)| |  | Head banger wrote: | | you forgot to acount for the fact that as the american economy goes down, they buy less crap, resulting in less work and money going elswhere.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | OK, I will try to give you an abbreviated version. As I mentioned earlier, it is a very complicated process. Here goes;
When mortgage loans are made (in this manner) they are put with others. Thousands are "bundled" and sold to Wall Street as "Mortgage Backed Securities". These loan pools are used to sell investors bonds and and other "secured" investments. They are the "collateral" you mentioned in an earlier post. The theory is, not all will go bad and the interest collected in a pool is far greater than the loss. Now, the problem comes when this system grows to a point where losses begin to overtake profit. More and more of these "bad loans" go sideways and are supplemented by further bad loans. They are sold and re-sold to different investors throughout the world (so other economies are affected). As more bundled securities arrive and are sold, the risky loans that have gone bad slowly begin to affect the profit margin. In the meantime, the loss loans now become foreclosures. These are sold at reduced rate and then picked up and re-mortgaged and placed into yet further pools. The values are watered down over time, and most of the time were inflated to begin with. This causes what is known as being "upside down"..property is worth less than the amount owed. Of course, that further disrupts the total value of the securities that are the basis of other investments.
I am being somewhat simple in my explanation. The fact is, this does affect other economies because they are sold on the market and investors from all over the world are involved. Not necessarily in mortgage investments, but in the resulting securities that the bundles fund.
(Quoting Message by _strat_ from Tuesday, March 24, 2009 8:01:53 AM)
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_strat_ wrote: |
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True. So, now that we cleared that up, explain why are we in a reccesion, when it was the American citizens who took bad loans, and explain how that is connected.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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At LAST!!! Someone that gets it...!!! HAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh thank you so much Ron!! You came in and said that people should take responsibility!!! WOW!!! Consequence for action!!! woo hoo!! At last! At last!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAA!!!!!!!!!!
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ronhartsell wrote: |
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It still ultimately boils down to individual responsibility...I have to agree with the way Freeze put...income-outgoing=???...if that's a negative number, you don't have it...how much more complicated does it have to be??...just because it's 'offered' does NOT mean one should accept!!! RESPONSIBILITY!!!!!
Good morning fellow Metalheads!!!
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Head banger wrote: |
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but, one of the large issues we are not addressing is government debt. the US government owes so much, they destablize the economy just by their daily actions. if the US federal debt was half, they owuld be much further ahead. as the govt debt goes, realy, so does the banks, the corporations, and the citizens.
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ronhartsell wrote: |
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Freeze, HB, MG, strat...all of you have nailed it...blaming the institution is only allowing the individual to escape responsibility!!! No one was forced to sign their names on the dotted line, and that's what all of this boils down to...nothing more, nothing less!!!
THERE ARE NO INNOCENT VICTIMS IN THIS EXCEPT THE TAX PAYER WHO DIDN'T TAKE OUT A LOAN YET HAS NO CHOICE IN WHERE THEIR TAX DOLLARS GO!!!
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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You know, maybe I should put this in the Pissed Off Thread but last night, the Princess and I were watching Dateline NBC and they were doing a report on the "mortgage crisis". Now, before strat goes postal on me just let me say that it truly IS a situation caused by greed and corruption. I get that. Being in the business for twenty years, I saw my fair share of "questionable" loans. OK, now that I have prefaced my comments....:
WHAT????!!!!!!!!!!! I sat here ready to friggin PUKE when I heard these morons talking on camera. There were THREE 'borrowers' that were interviewed and guess what they ALL had in common?? ALL three signed for a loan they could not afford ! Worse yet, they continue (probably for litigation reasons) to insist they had no fault!!! WHAT??!?!!??!?! Oh man. I nearly had a stroke!!!!! What the fu#@????????Look, I know there are bad people in businesses. People that would do things to make a buck regardless of right or wrong. I understand. What irritates me is these borrowers claiming they "did not know" that they could not afford a half-million dollar home on a $1600 a month salary! Or, they claim they believed it because the "lender said they could".. WHATEVER! This is FOURTH GRADE friggin math, people!!!! You make $1600 and the mortgage payment is $3000...um, it DOES NOT WORK. You cannot blame that on anyone but yourself !!!!!!!There was even one lady that bought like THREE properties and her income taxes showed she was LOSING money in her business every year!! (Her quote; 'Oh! Those are MY taxes??) Yet she went ahead and signed papers for millions of dollars in loans and now claims it is NOT her fault!!!!!!!!!! Riiiiiiight....... Disgusting.
Like I said, I get that the banks have some responsibility here. No doubt. But these losers that claim they have NO fault at all make me sick!!!!!!!!!!!! Stupid people should NOT buy homes! I am SO sick of people blaming business for all there idiocy!
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:11:57 AM
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:18:22 AM |
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Edited at: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 8:23:28 AM |
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| [Head banger] Tuesday, March 24, 2009 9:38:44 AM | |
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you forgot to acount for the fact that as the american economy goes down, they buy less crap, resulting in less work and money going elswhere.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Tuesday, March 24, 2009 8:15:39 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | OK, I will try to give you an abbreviated version. As I mentioned earlier, it is a very complicated process. Here goes;
When mortgage loans are made (in this manner) they are put with others. Thousands are "bundled" and sold to Wall Street as "Mortgage Backed Securities". These loan pools are used to sell investors bonds and and other "secured" investments. They are the "collateral" you mentioned in an earlier post. The theory is, not all will go bad and the interest collected in a pool is far greater than the loss. Now, the problem comes when this system grows to a point where losses begin to overtake profit. More and more of these "bad loans" go sideways and are supplemented by further bad loans. They are sold and re-sold to different investors throughout the world (so other economies are affected). As more bundled securities arrive and are sold, the risky loans that have gone bad slowly begin to affect the profit margin. In the meantime, the loss loans now become foreclosures. These are sold at reduced rate and then picked up and re-mortgaged and placed into yet further pools. The values are watered down over time, and most of the time were inflated to begin with. This causes what is known as being "upside down"..property is worth less than the amount owed. Of course, that further disrupts the total value of the securities that are the basis of other investments.
I am being somewhat simple in my explanation. The fact is, this does affect other economies because they are sold on the market and investors from all over the world are involved. Not necessarily in mortgage investments, but in the resulting securities that the bundles fund.
(Quoting Message by _strat_ from Tuesday, March 24, 2009 8:01:53 AM)
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_strat_ wrote: |
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True. So, now that we cleared that up, explain why are we in a reccesion, when it was the American citizens who took bad loans, and explain how that is connected.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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At LAST!!! Someone that gets it...!!! HAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh thank you so much Ron!! You came in and said that people should take responsibility!!! WOW!!! Consequence for action!!! woo hoo!! At last! At last!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAA!!!!!!!!!!
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ronhartsell wrote: |
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It still ultimately boils down to individual responsibility...I have to agree with the way Freeze put...income-outgoing=???...if that's a negative number, you don't have it...how much more complicated does it have to be??...just because it's 'offered' does NOT mean one should accept!!! RESPONSIBILITY!!!!!
Good morning fellow Metalheads!!!
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Head banger wrote: |
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but, one of the large issues we are not addressing is government debt. the US government owes so much, they destablize the economy just by their daily actions. if the US federal debt was half, they owuld be much further ahead. as the govt debt goes, realy, so does the banks, the corporations, and the citizens.
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ronhartsell wrote: |
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Freeze, HB, MG, strat...all of you have nailed it...blaming the institution is only allowing the individual to escape responsibility!!! No one was forced to sign their names on the dotted line, and that's what all of this boils down to...nothing more, nothing less!!!
THERE ARE NO INNOCENT VICTIMS IN THIS EXCEPT THE TAX PAYER WHO DIDN'T TAKE OUT A LOAN YET HAS NO CHOICE IN WHERE THEIR TAX DOLLARS GO!!!
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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You know, maybe I should put this in the Pissed Off Thread but last night, the Princess and I were watching Dateline NBC and they were doing a report on the "mortgage crisis". Now, before strat goes postal on me just let me say that it truly IS a situation caused by greed and corruption. I get that. Being in the business for twenty years, I saw my fair share of "questionable" loans. OK, now that I have prefaced my comments....:
WHAT????!!!!!!!!!!! I sat here ready to friggin PUKE when I heard these morons talking on camera. There were THREE 'borrowers' that were interviewed and guess what they ALL had in common?? ALL three signed for a loan they could not afford ! Worse yet, they continue (probably for litigation reasons) to insist they had no fault!!! WHAT??!?!!??!?! Oh man. I nearly had a stroke!!!!! What the fu#@????????Look, I know there are bad people in businesses. People that would do things to make a buck regardless of right or wrong. I understand. What irritates me is these borrowers claiming they "did not know" that they could not afford a half-million dollar home on a $1600 a month salary! Or, they claim they believed it because the "lender said they could".. WHATEVER! This is FOURTH GRADE friggin math, people!!!! You make $1600 and the mortgage payment is $3000...um, it DOES NOT WORK. You cannot blame that on anyone but yourself !!!!!!!There was even one lady that bought like THREE properties and her income taxes showed she was LOSING money in her business every year!! (Her quote; 'Oh! Those are MY taxes??) Yet she went ahead and signed papers for millions of dollars in loans and now claims it is NOT her fault!!!!!!!!!! Riiiiiiight....... Disgusting.
Like I said, I get that the banks have some responsibility here. No doubt. But these losers that claim they have NO fault at all make me sick!!!!!!!!!!!! Stupid people should NOT buy homes! I am SO sick of people blaming business for all there idiocy!
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:11:57 AM
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:18:22 AM |
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Edited at: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 8:23:28 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Tuesday, March 24, 2009 8:15:39 AM | |
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OK, I will try to give you an abbreviated version. As I mentioned earlier, it is a very complicated process. Here goes;
When mortgage loans are made (in this manner) they are put with others. Thousands are "bundled" and sold to Wall Street as "Mortgage Backed Securities". These loan pools are used to sell investors bonds and and other "secured" investments. They are the "collateral" you mentioned in an earlier post. The theory is, not all will go bad and the interest collected in a pool is far greater than the loss. Now, the problem comes when this system grows to a point where losses begin to overtake profit. More and more of these "bad loans" go sideways and are supplemented by further bad loans. They are sold and re-sold to different investors throughout the world (so other economies are affected). As more bundled securities arrive and are sold, the risky loans that have gone bad slowly begin to affect the profit margin. In the meantime, the loss loans now become foreclosures. These are sold at reduced rate and then picked up and re-mortgaged and placed into yet further pools. The values are watered down over time, and most of the time were inflated to begin with. This causes what is known as being "upside down"..property is worth less than the amount owed. Of course, that further disrupts the total value of the securities that are the basis of other investments.
I am being somewhat simple in my explanation. The fact is, this does affect other economies because they are sold on the market and investors from all over the world are involved. Not necessarily in mortgage investments, but in the resulting securities that the bundles fund.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by _strat_ from Tuesday, March 24, 2009 8:01:53 AM)
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_strat_ wrote: |
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True. So, now that we cleared that up, explain why are we in a reccesion, when it was the American citizens who took bad loans, and explain how that is connected.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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At LAST!!! Someone that gets it...!!! HAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh thank you so much Ron!! You came in and said that people should take responsibility!!! WOW!!! Consequence for action!!! woo hoo!! At last! At last!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAA!!!!!!!!!!
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ronhartsell wrote: |
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It still ultimately boils down to individual responsibility...I have to agree with the way Freeze put...income-outgoing=???...if that's a negative number, you don't have it...how much more complicated does it have to be??...just because it's 'offered' does NOT mean one should accept!!! RESPONSIBILITY!!!!!
Good morning fellow Metalheads!!!
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Head banger wrote: |
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but, one of the large issues we are not addressing is government debt. the US government owes so much, they destablize the economy just by their daily actions. if the US federal debt was half, they owuld be much further ahead. as the govt debt goes, realy, so does the banks, the corporations, and the citizens.
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ronhartsell wrote: |
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Freeze, HB, MG, strat...all of you have nailed it...blaming the institution is only allowing the individual to escape responsibility!!! No one was forced to sign their names on the dotted line, and that's what all of this boils down to...nothing more, nothing less!!!
THERE ARE NO INNOCENT VICTIMS IN THIS EXCEPT THE TAX PAYER WHO DIDN'T TAKE OUT A LOAN YET HAS NO CHOICE IN WHERE THEIR TAX DOLLARS GO!!!
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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You know, maybe I should put this in the Pissed Off Thread but last night, the Princess and I were watching Dateline NBC and they were doing a report on the "mortgage crisis". Now, before strat goes postal on me just let me say that it truly IS a situation caused by greed and corruption. I get that. Being in the business for twenty years, I saw my fair share of "questionable" loans. OK, now that I have prefaced my comments....:
WHAT????!!!!!!!!!!! I sat here ready to friggin PUKE when I heard these morons talking on camera. There were THREE 'borrowers' that were interviewed and guess what they ALL had in common?? ALL three signed for a loan they could not afford ! Worse yet, they continue (probably for litigation reasons) to insist they had no fault!!! WHAT??!?!!??!?! Oh man. I nearly had a stroke!!!!! What the fu#@????????Look, I know there are bad people in businesses. People that would do things to make a buck regardless of right or wrong. I understand. What irritates me is these borrowers claiming they "did not know" that they could not afford a half-million dollar home on a $1600 a month salary! Or, they claim they believed it because the "lender said they could".. WHATEVER! This is FOURTH GRADE friggin math, people!!!! You make $1600 and the mortgage payment is $3000...um, it DOES NOT WORK. You cannot blame that on anyone but yourself !!!!!!!There was even one lady that bought like THREE properties and her income taxes showed she was LOSING money in her business every year!! (Her quote; 'Oh! Those are MY taxes??) Yet she went ahead and signed papers for millions of dollars in loans and now claims it is NOT her fault!!!!!!!!!! Riiiiiiight....... Disgusting.
Like I said, I get that the banks have some responsibility here. No doubt. But these losers that claim they have NO fault at all make me sick!!!!!!!!!!!! Stupid people should NOT buy homes! I am SO sick of people blaming business for all there idiocy!
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:11:57 AM
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:18:22 AM |
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Edited at: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 8:23:28 AM |
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| [_strat_] Tuesday, March 24, 2009 8:01:53 AM | |
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True. So, now that we cleared that up, explain why are we in a reccesion, when it was the American citizens who took bad loans, and explain how that is connected.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:34:47 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | At LAST!!! Someone that gets it...!!! HAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh thank you so much Ron!! You came in and said that people should take responsibility!!! WOW!!! Consequence for action!!! woo hoo!! At last! At last!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAA!!!!!!!!!!
| | | ronhartsell wrote: | | It still ultimately boils down to individual responsibility...I have to agree with the way Freeze put...income-outgoing=???...if that's a negative number, you don't have it...how much more complicated does it have to be??...just because it's 'offered' does NOT mean one should accept!!! RESPONSIBILITY!!!!!
Good morning fellow Metalheads!!!
| | | Head banger wrote: | | but, one of the large issues we are not addressing is government debt. the US government owes so much, they destablize the economy just by their daily actions. if the US federal debt was half, they owuld be much further ahead. as the govt debt goes, realy, so does the banks, the corporations, and the citizens.
| | | ronhartsell wrote: | | Freeze, HB, MG, strat...all of you have nailed it...blaming the institution is only allowing the individual to escape responsibility!!! No one was forced to sign their names on the dotted line, and that's what all of this boils down to...nothing more, nothing less!!!
THERE ARE NO INNOCENT VICTIMS IN THIS EXCEPT THE TAX PAYER WHO DIDN'T TAKE OUT A LOAN YET HAS NO CHOICE IN WHERE THEIR TAX DOLLARS GO!!!
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | You know, maybe I should put this in the Pissed Off Thread but last night, the Princess and I were watching Dateline NBC and they were doing a report on the "mortgage crisis". Now, before strat goes postal on me just let me say that it truly IS a situation caused by greed and corruption. I get that. Being in the business for twenty years, I saw my fair share of "questionable" loans. OK, now that I have prefaced my comments....:
WHAT????!!!!!!!!!!! I sat here ready to friggin PUKE when I heard these morons talking on camera. There were THREE 'borrowers' that were interviewed and guess what they ALL had in common?? ALL three signed for a loan they could not afford ! Worse yet, they continue (probably for litigation reasons) to insist they had no fault!!! WHAT??!?!!??!?! Oh man. I nearly had a stroke!!!!! What the fu#@????????Look, I know there are bad people in businesses. People that would do things to make a buck regardless of right or wrong. I understand. What irritates me is these borrowers claiming they "did not know" that they could not afford a half-million dollar home on a $1600 a month salary! Or, they claim they believed it because the "lender said they could".. WHATEVER! This is FOURTH GRADE friggin math, people!!!! You make $1600 and the mortgage payment is $3000...um, it DOES NOT WORK. You cannot blame that on anyone but yourself !!!!!!!There was even one lady that bought like THREE properties and her income taxes showed she was LOSING money in her business every year!! (Her quote; 'Oh! Those are MY taxes??) Yet she went ahead and signed papers for millions of dollars in loans and now claims it is NOT her fault!!!!!!!!!! Riiiiiiight....... Disgusting.
Like I said, I get that the banks have some responsibility here. No doubt. But these losers that claim they have NO fault at all make me sick!!!!!!!!!!!! Stupid people should NOT buy homes! I am SO sick of people blaming business for all there idiocy!
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:11:57 AM
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:18:22 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:34:47 AM | |
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At LAST!!! Someone that gets it...!!! HAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh thank you so much Ron!! You came in and said that people should take responsibility!!! WOW!!! Consequence for action!!! woo hoo!! At last! At last!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAA!!!!!!!!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by ronhartsell from Tuesday, March 24, 2009 4:42:06 AM)| | | ronhartsell wrote: | | It still ultimately boils down to individual responsibility...I have to agree with the way Freeze put...income-outgoing=???...if that's a negative number, you don't have it...how much more complicated does it have to be??...just because it's 'offered' does NOT mean one should accept!!! RESPONSIBILITY!!!!!
Good morning fellow Metalheads!!!
| | | Head banger wrote: | | but, one of the large issues we are not addressing is government debt. the US government owes so much, they destablize the economy just by their daily actions. if the US federal debt was half, they owuld be much further ahead. as the govt debt goes, realy, so does the banks, the corporations, and the citizens.
| | | ronhartsell wrote: | | Freeze, HB, MG, strat...all of you have nailed it...blaming the institution is only allowing the individual to escape responsibility!!! No one was forced to sign their names on the dotted line, and that's what all of this boils down to...nothing more, nothing less!!!
THERE ARE NO INNOCENT VICTIMS IN THIS EXCEPT THE TAX PAYER WHO DIDN'T TAKE OUT A LOAN YET HAS NO CHOICE IN WHERE THEIR TAX DOLLARS GO!!!
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | You know, maybe I should put this in the Pissed Off Thread but last night, the Princess and I were watching Dateline NBC and they were doing a report on the "mortgage crisis". Now, before strat goes postal on me just let me say that it truly IS a situation caused by greed and corruption. I get that. Being in the business for twenty years, I saw my fair share of "questionable" loans. OK, now that I have prefaced my comments....:
WHAT????!!!!!!!!!!! I sat here ready to friggin PUKE when I heard these morons talking on camera. There were THREE 'borrowers' that were interviewed and guess what they ALL had in common?? ALL three signed for a loan they could not afford ! Worse yet, they continue (probably for litigation reasons) to insist they had no fault!!! WHAT??!?!!??!?! Oh man. I nearly had a stroke!!!!! What the fu#@????????Look, I know there are bad people in businesses. People that would do things to make a buck regardless of right or wrong. I understand. What irritates me is these borrowers claiming they "did not know" that they could not afford a half-million dollar home on a $1600 a month salary! Or, they claim they believed it because the "lender said they could".. WHATEVER! This is FOURTH GRADE friggin math, people!!!! You make $1600 and the mortgage payment is $3000...um, it DOES NOT WORK. You cannot blame that on anyone but yourself !!!!!!!There was even one lady that bought like THREE properties and her income taxes showed she was LOSING money in her business every year!! (Her quote; 'Oh! Those are MY taxes??) Yet she went ahead and signed papers for millions of dollars in loans and now claims it is NOT her fault!!!!!!!!!! Riiiiiiight....... Disgusting.
Like I said, I get that the banks have some responsibility here. No doubt. But these losers that claim they have NO fault at all make me sick!!!!!!!!!!!! Stupid people should NOT buy homes! I am SO sick of people blaming business for all there idiocy!
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:11:57 AM
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:18:22 AM |
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| [ron h] Tuesday, March 24, 2009 4:42:06 AM | |
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It still ultimately boils down to individual responsibility...I have to agree with the way Freeze put...income-outgoing=???...if that's a negative number, you don't have it...how much more complicated does it have to be??...just because it's 'offered' does NOT mean one should accept!!! RESPONSIBILITY!!!!!
Good morning fellow Metalheads!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Monday, March 23, 2009 9:09:26 PM)| | | Head banger wrote: | | but, one of the large issues we are not addressing is government debt. the US government owes so much, they destablize the economy just by their daily actions. if the US federal debt was half, they owuld be much further ahead. as the govt debt goes, realy, so does the banks, the corporations, and the citizens.
| | | ronhartsell wrote: | | Freeze, HB, MG, strat...all of you have nailed it...blaming the institution is only allowing the individual to escape responsibility!!! No one was forced to sign their names on the dotted line, and that's what all of this boils down to...nothing more, nothing less!!!
THERE ARE NO INNOCENT VICTIMS IN THIS EXCEPT THE TAX PAYER WHO DIDN'T TAKE OUT A LOAN YET HAS NO CHOICE IN WHERE THEIR TAX DOLLARS GO!!!
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | You know, maybe I should put this in the Pissed Off Thread but last night, the Princess and I were watching Dateline NBC and they were doing a report on the "mortgage crisis". Now, before strat goes postal on me just let me say that it truly IS a situation caused by greed and corruption. I get that. Being in the business for twenty years, I saw my fair share of "questionable" loans. OK, now that I have prefaced my comments....:
WHAT????!!!!!!!!!!! I sat here ready to friggin PUKE when I heard these morons talking on camera. There were THREE 'borrowers' that were interviewed and guess what they ALL had in common?? ALL three signed for a loan they could not afford ! Worse yet, they continue (probably for litigation reasons) to insist they had no fault!!! WHAT??!?!!??!?! Oh man. I nearly had a stroke!!!!! What the fu#@????????Look, I know there are bad people in businesses. People that would do things to make a buck regardless of right or wrong. I understand. What irritates me is these borrowers claiming they "did not know" that they could not afford a half-million dollar home on a $1600 a month salary! Or, they claim they believed it because the "lender said they could".. WHATEVER! This is FOURTH GRADE friggin math, people!!!! You make $1600 and the mortgage payment is $3000...um, it DOES NOT WORK. You cannot blame that on anyone but yourself !!!!!!!There was even one lady that bought like THREE properties and her income taxes showed she was LOSING money in her business every year!! (Her quote; 'Oh! Those are MY taxes??) Yet she went ahead and signed papers for millions of dollars in loans and now claims it is NOT her fault!!!!!!!!!! Riiiiiiight....... Disgusting.
Like I said, I get that the banks have some responsibility here. No doubt. But these losers that claim they have NO fault at all make me sick!!!!!!!!!!!! Stupid people should NOT buy homes! I am SO sick of people blaming business for all there idiocy!
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:11:57 AM
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:18:22 AM |
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| [_strat_] Tuesday, March 24, 2009 2:23:03 AM | |
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Well, I agree theyre not the only ones to blame. Theres big businesses too.
Sry... If I dont start the day blaming the big bourgeoisie for the bad weather, then I rather call in sick to work.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Monday, March 23, 2009 6:01:57 PM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | HA!!!!!!!!!! As I said, it is far more complicated than what we can get into here on the Board. There were many that said something about the impending crisis but GREED speaks louder, my friend. And I was not looking to assign a degree or level of blame, I was pointing out how sick I am of the media portraying banks as the lone evil. They are not. Period. No matter what form of social belief you hold true, irresponsibilty remains unacceptable. Shows like Dateline just love to exploit the already skewed sense of fault that permeates this entire, sordid mess.
| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Well, rights and wrongs... Sooner or later, for better or for worse, those "flowery rights and wrongs" will be all that matters, since people - stupid or smart, guilty or innocent - that have been tossed into poverty will have enough, and then you will have a social and a political crisis on top of the economic one. If you havent already - we do and we arent even officialy in a reccesion yet! And then we come to the plain and simple fact that this is not just a current crisis of the economy, but a crisis of the system, that will (hopefully) end the two decades of neo-liberal wet dreams.
Now, with banks, its obvious that we have two very different ways here - as I said, over here, youre NOT going to get a loan just by steping into a bank. You couldnt even before the crisis. That was the whole problem here for years (and its only worse now). People just couldnt get a loan, unless they could offer good guarantees that a loan can be repayed. The banks demanded guarantees in real estate, shares... anything that can be bought and sold. When I read from you, about how Americans could take loans where payments exceeded their wages by two times or more, I could hardly believe it. And I agree on that much at least, that in your case, much of the blame is on the people who took those loans. Although, I can still hardly believe that there would be so many such morons to start a crisis like we have now.
And in the end... Banks hold the money. Banks, private or state owned, have a lot of responsibility for the wealth of the society. How come they couldnt predict what would happen if they continue with the policy they had? With all the experts they have? They do have a lot of blame. Because, in the end, it remains that most of the wealth is held by a very small minority of people. Be it in my country, your country, or globaly. And they hold the greatest amount of responsibility for this crisis.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Exactly, HB!
Strat my friend, this is NOT a debate over the "oh so flowery rights and wrongs" of proper lending or borrowing. This is a stark reality, man. You should NEVER sign ANYTHING which you do not understand. Moreover, I do not care if "god" himself tells you that you can "afford it", any rational, thinking human being can see that income is "x" and outgo is "y". There is no other formula to justify it.
YES! Banks expect you to repay,usually. In the case of our current "crisis", it was not an important part of the lending process because loans were put into 'pools' that were sold as "Mortgage Backed Securities" on Wall Street. Banks were not expecting to actually collect the debt as they would in a normal mortgage loan. So, you see this is NOT a simple "percentage" or loan repayment or any of that. As I mentioned way back in our previous discussion on loans and interest, it is FAR more complicated than that. I could explain it but it would be a FAR BIGGER post than even this one is and it will make NO sense to you. (You are welcome to PM me if you would like a more detailed lesson)
There is plenty of blame to go around but very little responsibility. I am just sick of the banks getting hammered in the media as some evil, demonic force that have possessed otherwise good and decent people and ruined their lives. BAH!! Stupid people should NOT own homes. They are better off renting and being told what to do.
| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Going postal? What am I supposed to deliver? Or is it just some weird phrase?
Ok... Loans... I guess the question here is, do your banks even know who theyre lending the money to? Im pretty damn sure that I couldnt get a loan for a home with my wage - because the bank will make damn sure that they get their money back, no matter what, and they will confiscate my underwear if they have to. If you want to take a loan here, you have to have the means to repay it - pure and simple.
And, I guess its true, there are stupid people that will take those loans (if they can get them, that is). But... Its a crisis. What if someone gets laid off, and cannot pay the loan that he/she was perfectly able to manage a year ago? What if that happens purely because of an idiotic CEO in his office in Paris that says "Oh, well, we will just close down that factory in Eastern Europe... Fuck them."?
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | You know, maybe I should put this in the Pissed Off Thread but last night, the Princess and I were watching Dateline NBC and they were doing a report on the "mortgage crisis". Now, before strat goes postal on me just let me say that it truly IS a situation caused by greed and corruption. I get that. Being in the business for twenty years, I saw my fair share of "questionable" loans. OK, now that I have prefaced my comments....:
WHAT????!!!!!!!!!!! I sat here ready to friggin PUKE when I heard these morons talking on camera. There were THREE 'borrowers' that were interviewed and guess what they ALL had in common?? ALL three signed for a loan they could not afford ! Worse yet, they continue (probably for litigation reasons) to insist they had no fault!!! WHAT??!?!!??!?! Oh man. I nearly had a stroke!!!!! What the fu#@????????Look, I know there are bad people in businesses. People that would do things to make a buck regardless of right or wrong. I understand. What irritates me is these borrowers claiming they "did not know" that they could not afford a half-million dollar home on a $1600 a month salary! Or, they claim they believed it because the "lender said they could".. WHATEVER! This is FOURTH GRADE friggin math, people!!!! You make $1600 and the mortgage payment is $3000...um, it DOES NOT WORK. You cannot blame that on anyone but yourself !!!!!!!There was even one lady that bought like THREE properties and her income taxes showed she was LOSING money in her business every year!! (Her quote; 'Oh! Those are MY taxes??) Yet she went ahead and signed papers for millions of dollars in loans and now claims it is NOT her fault!!!!!!!!!! Riiiiiiight....... Disgusting.
Like I said, I get that the banks have some responsibility here. No doubt. But these losers that claim they have NO fault at all make me sick!!!!!!!!!!!! Stupid people should NOT buy homes! I am SO sick of people blaming business for all there idiocy!
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:11:57 AM
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:18:22 AM |
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| [_strat_] Tuesday, March 24, 2009 2:20:21 AM | |
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The Daily Fail? Thank you very much, but no. I have good digestion.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by spapad from Monday, March 23, 2009 9:22:42 PM)| | | spapad wrote: | | Read the Daily Mail online. They hate him and they hate Blair too!
| | | Becks wrote: | | I'm not sure what the Brits reckon of Gordon Brown but I don't think he is very popular, in part because as you said, he wasn't actually elected by the public.
| | | spapad wrote: | | I know he is. And he is the biggest fool to ever govern, who was not ever voted in! Sold off gold reserves for a fraction! Why the hell did he do it in the first place! There are very few dumber than that fool. OOOOooops, Sorry, forgot we had Dubbah! (Quoting Message by Becks from Monday, March 23, 2009 9:15:03 PM)
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Becks wrote: |
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LMAO Gordon Brown! The old Scottish dude who took us on our boat trip on Loch Ness was like 'The English can have him he's an idiot!' (cos GB is actually Scottish lol).
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spapad wrote: |
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Darn HB, the only time I wished you lived in Britian. So I could say say two words, ........Gordon Brown.
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Head banger wrote: |
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but, one of the large issues we are not addressing is government debt. the US government owes so much, they destablize the economy just by their daily actions. if the US federal debt was half, they owuld be much further ahead. as the govt debt goes, realy, so does the banks, the corporations, and the citizens.
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ronhartsell wrote: |
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Freeze, HB, MG, strat...all of you have nailed it...blaming the institution is only allowing the individual to escape responsibility!!! No one was forced to sign their names on the dotted line, and that's what all of this boils down to...nothing more, nothing less!!!
THERE ARE NO INNOCENT VICTIMS IN THIS EXCEPT THE TAX PAYER WHO DIDN'T TAKE OUT A LOAN YET HAS NO CHOICE IN WHERE THEIR TAX DOLLARS GO!!!
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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You know, maybe I should put this in the Pissed Off Thread but last night, the Princess and I were watching Dateline NBC and they were doing a report on the "mortgage crisis". Now, before strat goes postal on me just let me say that it truly IS a situation caused by greed and corruption. I get that. Being in the business for twenty years, I saw my fair share of "questionable" loans. OK, now that I have prefaced my comments....:
WHAT????!!!!!!!!!!! I sat here ready to friggin PUKE when I heard these morons talking on camera. There were THREE 'borrowers' that were interviewed and guess what they ALL had in common?? ALL three signed for a loan they could not afford ! Worse yet, they continue (probably for litigation reasons) to insist they had no fault!!! WHAT??!?!!??!?! Oh man. I nearly had a stroke!!!!! What the fu#@????????Look, I know there are bad people in businesses. People that would do things to make a buck regardless of right or wrong. I understand. What irritates me is these borrowers claiming they "did not know" that they could not afford a half-million dollar home on a $1600 a month salary! Or, they claim they believed it because the "lender said they could".. WHATEVER! This is FOURTH GRADE friggin math, people!!!! You make $1600 and the mortgage payment is $3000...um, it DOES NOT WORK. You cannot blame that on anyone but yourself !!!!!!!There was even one lady that bought like THREE properties and her income taxes showed she was LOSING money in her business every year!! (Her quote; 'Oh! Those are MY taxes??) Yet she went ahead and signed papers for millions of dollars in loans and now claims it is NOT her fault!!!!!!!!!! Riiiiiiight....... Disgusting.
Like I said, I get that the banks have some responsibility here. No doubt. But these losers that claim they have NO fault at all make me sick!!!!!!!!!!!! Stupid people should NOT buy homes! I am SO sick of people blaming business for all there idiocy!
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:11:57 AM
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:18:22 AM |
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Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:20:43 PM |
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| [spapad] Monday, March 23, 2009 9:28:51 PM | |
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Head banger wrote: |
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google Ralph Klein. might not have been popular, but put in place comon sense policies, cut debt and govt spending. resulted in huge tax cuts in alberta, and huge growth.
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spapad wrote: |
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Darn HB, the only time I wished you lived in Britian. So I could say say two words, ........Gordon Brown.
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Head banger wrote: |
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but, one of the large issues we are not addressing is government debt. the US government owes so much, they destablize the economy just by their daily actions. if the US federal debt was half, they owuld be much further ahead. as the govt debt goes, realy, so does the banks, the corporations, and the citizens.
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ronhartsell wrote: |
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Freeze, HB, MG, strat...all of you have nailed it...blaming the institution is only allowing the individual to escape responsibility!!! No one was forced to sign their names on the dotted line, and that's what all of this boils down to...nothing more, nothing less!!!
THERE ARE NO INNOCENT VICTIMS IN THIS EXCEPT THE TAX PAYER WHO DIDN'T TAKE OUT A LOAN YET HAS NO CHOICE IN WHERE THEIR TAX DOLLARS GO!!!
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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You know, maybe I should put this in the Pissed Off Thread but last night, the Princess and I were watching Dateline NBC and they were doing a report on the "mortgage crisis". Now, before strat goes postal on me just let me say that it truly IS a situation caused by greed and corruption. I get that. Being in the business for twenty years, I saw my fair share of "questionable" loans. OK, now that I have prefaced my comments....:
WHAT????!!!!!!!!!!! I sat here ready to friggin PUKE when I heard these morons talking on camera. There were THREE 'borrowers' that were interviewed and guess what they ALL had in common?? ALL three signed for a loan they could not afford ! Worse yet, they continue (probably for litigation reasons) to insist they had no fault!!! WHAT??!?!!??!?! Oh man. I nearly had a stroke!!!!! What the fu#@????????Look, I know there are bad people in businesses. People that would do things to make a buck regardless of right or wrong. I understand. What irritates me is these borrowers claiming they "did not know" that they could not afford a half-million dollar home on a $1600 a month salary! Or, they claim they believed it because the "lender said they could".. WHATEVER! This is FOURTH GRADE friggin math, people!!!! You make $1600 and the mortgage payment is $3000...um, it DOES NOT WORK. You cannot blame that on anyone but yourself !!!!!!!There was even one lady that bought like THREE properties and her income taxes showed she was LOSING money in her business every year!! (Her quote; 'Oh! Those are MY taxes??) Yet she went ahead and signed papers for millions of dollars in loans and now claims it is NOT her fault!!!!!!!!!! Riiiiiiight....... Disgusting.
Like I said, I get that the banks have some responsibility here. No doubt. But these losers that claim they have NO fault at all make me sick!!!!!!!!!!!! Stupid people should NOT buy homes! I am SO sick of people blaming business for all there idiocy!
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:11:57 AM
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:18:22 AM |
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Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:47:26 PM |
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| [Head banger] Monday, March 23, 2009 9:24:04 PM | |
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google Ralph Klein. might not have been popular, but put in place comon sense policies, cut debt and govt spending. resulted in huge tax cuts in alberta, and huge growth.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by spapad from Monday, March 23, 2009 9:12:14 PM)| | | spapad wrote: | | Darn HB, the only time I wished you lived in Britian. So I could say say two words, ........Gordon Brown.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | but, one of the large issues we are not addressing is government debt. the US government owes so much, they destablize the economy just by their daily actions. if the US federal debt was half, they owuld be much further ahead. as the govt debt goes, realy, so does the banks, the corporations, and the citizens.
| | | ronhartsell wrote: | | Freeze, HB, MG, strat...all of you have nailed it...blaming the institution is only allowing the individual to escape responsibility!!! No one was forced to sign their names on the dotted line, and that's what all of this boils down to...nothing more, nothing less!!!
THERE ARE NO INNOCENT VICTIMS IN THIS EXCEPT THE TAX PAYER WHO DIDN'T TAKE OUT A LOAN YET HAS NO CHOICE IN WHERE THEIR TAX DOLLARS GO!!!
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | You know, maybe I should put this in the Pissed Off Thread but last night, the Princess and I were watching Dateline NBC and they were doing a report on the "mortgage crisis". Now, before strat goes postal on me just let me say that it truly IS a situation caused by greed and corruption. I get that. Being in the business for twenty years, I saw my fair share of "questionable" loans. OK, now that I have prefaced my comments....:
WHAT????!!!!!!!!!!! I sat here ready to friggin PUKE when I heard these morons talking on camera. There were THREE 'borrowers' that were interviewed and guess what they ALL had in common?? ALL three signed for a loan they could not afford ! Worse yet, they continue (probably for litigation reasons) to insist they had no fault!!! WHAT??!?!!??!?! Oh man. I nearly had a stroke!!!!! What the fu#@????????Look, I know there are bad people in businesses. People that would do things to make a buck regardless of right or wrong. I understand. What irritates me is these borrowers claiming they "did not know" that they could not afford a half-million dollar home on a $1600 a month salary! Or, they claim they believed it because the "lender said they could".. WHATEVER! This is FOURTH GRADE friggin math, people!!!! You make $1600 and the mortgage payment is $3000...um, it DOES NOT WORK. You cannot blame that on anyone but yourself !!!!!!!There was even one lady that bought like THREE properties and her income taxes showed she was LOSING money in her business every year!! (Her quote; 'Oh! Those are MY taxes??) Yet she went ahead and signed papers for millions of dollars in loans and now claims it is NOT her fault!!!!!!!!!! Riiiiiiight....... Disgusting.
Like I said, I get that the banks have some responsibility here. No doubt. But these losers that claim they have NO fault at all make me sick!!!!!!!!!!!! Stupid people should NOT buy homes! I am SO sick of people blaming business for all there idiocy!
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:11:57 AM
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:18:22 AM |
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| [Becks] Monday, March 23, 2009 9:23:55 PM | |
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LOL not surprising really that they are both deeply unpopular. Will definitely check out the Daily Mail for my UK news fix, cheers!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by spapad from Monday, March 23, 2009 9:22:42 PM)| | | spapad wrote: | | Read the Daily Mail online. They hate him and they hate Blair too!
| | | Becks wrote: | | I'm not sure what the Brits reckon of Gordon Brown but I don't think he is very popular, in part because as you said, he wasn't actually elected by the public.
| | | spapad wrote: | | I know he is. And he is the biggest fool to ever govern, who was not ever voted in! Sold off gold reserves for a fraction! Why the hell did he do it in the first place! There are very few dumber than that fool. OOOOooops, Sorry, forgot we had Dubbah! (Quoting Message by Becks from Monday, March 23, 2009 9:15:03 PM)
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Becks wrote: |
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LMAO Gordon Brown! The old Scottish dude who took us on our boat trip on Loch Ness was like 'The English can have him he's an idiot!' (cos GB is actually Scottish lol).
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spapad wrote: |
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Darn HB, the only time I wished you lived in Britian. So I could say say two words, ........Gordon Brown.
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Head banger wrote: |
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but, one of the large issues we are not addressing is government debt. the US government owes so much, they destablize the economy just by their daily actions. if the US federal debt was half, they owuld be much further ahead. as the govt debt goes, realy, so does the banks, the corporations, and the citizens.
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ronhartsell wrote: |
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Freeze, HB, MG, strat...all of you have nailed it...blaming the institution is only allowing the individual to escape responsibility!!! No one was forced to sign their names on the dotted line, and that's what all of this boils down to...nothing more, nothing less!!!
THERE ARE NO INNOCENT VICTIMS IN THIS EXCEPT THE TAX PAYER WHO DIDN'T TAKE OUT A LOAN YET HAS NO CHOICE IN WHERE THEIR TAX DOLLARS GO!!!
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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You know, maybe I should put this in the Pissed Off Thread but last night, the Princess and I were watching Dateline NBC and they were doing a report on the "mortgage crisis". Now, before strat goes postal on me just let me say that it truly IS a situation caused by greed and corruption. I get that. Being in the business for twenty years, I saw my fair share of "questionable" loans. OK, now that I have prefaced my comments....:
WHAT????!!!!!!!!!!! I sat here ready to friggin PUKE when I heard these morons talking on camera. There were THREE 'borrowers' that were interviewed and guess what they ALL had in common?? ALL three signed for a loan they could not afford ! Worse yet, they continue (probably for litigation reasons) to insist they had no fault!!! WHAT??!?!!??!?! Oh man. I nearly had a stroke!!!!! What the fu#@????????Look, I know there are bad people in businesses. People that would do things to make a buck regardless of right or wrong. I understand. What irritates me is these borrowers claiming they "did not know" that they could not afford a half-million dollar home on a $1600 a month salary! Or, they claim they believed it because the "lender said they could".. WHATEVER! This is FOURTH GRADE friggin math, people!!!! You make $1600 and the mortgage payment is $3000...um, it DOES NOT WORK. You cannot blame that on anyone but yourself !!!!!!!There was even one lady that bought like THREE properties and her income taxes showed she was LOSING money in her business every year!! (Her quote; 'Oh! Those are MY taxes??) Yet she went ahead and signed papers for millions of dollars in loans and now claims it is NOT her fault!!!!!!!!!! Riiiiiiight....... Disgusting.
Like I said, I get that the banks have some responsibility here. No doubt. But these losers that claim they have NO fault at all make me sick!!!!!!!!!!!! Stupid people should NOT buy homes! I am SO sick of people blaming business for all there idiocy!
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:11:57 AM
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:18:22 AM |
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Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:20:43 PM |
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| [spapad] Monday, March 23, 2009 9:22:42 PM | |
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Read the Daily Mail online. They hate him and they hate Blair too!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Becks from Monday, March 23, 2009 9:21:25 PM)| | | Becks wrote: | | I'm not sure what the Brits reckon of Gordon Brown but I don't think he is very popular, in part because as you said, he wasn't actually elected by the public.
| | | spapad wrote: | | I know he is. And he is the biggest fool to ever govern, who was not ever voted in! Sold off gold reserves for a fraction! Why the hell did he do it in the first place! There are very few dumber than that fool. OOOOooops, Sorry, forgot we had Dubbah! (Quoting Message by Becks from Monday, March 23, 2009 9:15:03 PM)
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Becks wrote: |
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LMAO Gordon Brown! The old Scottish dude who took us on our boat trip on Loch Ness was like 'The English can have him he's an idiot!' (cos GB is actually Scottish lol).
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spapad wrote: |
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Darn HB, the only time I wished you lived in Britian. So I could say say two words, ........Gordon Brown.
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Head banger wrote: |
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but, one of the large issues we are not addressing is government debt. the US government owes so much, they destablize the economy just by their daily actions. if the US federal debt was half, they owuld be much further ahead. as the govt debt goes, realy, so does the banks, the corporations, and the citizens.
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ronhartsell wrote: |
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Freeze, HB, MG, strat...all of you have nailed it...blaming the institution is only allowing the individual to escape responsibility!!! No one was forced to sign their names on the dotted line, and that's what all of this boils down to...nothing more, nothing less!!!
THERE ARE NO INNOCENT VICTIMS IN THIS EXCEPT THE TAX PAYER WHO DIDN'T TAKE OUT A LOAN YET HAS NO CHOICE IN WHERE THEIR TAX DOLLARS GO!!!
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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You know, maybe I should put this in the Pissed Off Thread but last night, the Princess and I were watching Dateline NBC and they were doing a report on the "mortgage crisis". Now, before strat goes postal on me just let me say that it truly IS a situation caused by greed and corruption. I get that. Being in the business for twenty years, I saw my fair share of "questionable" loans. OK, now that I have prefaced my comments....:
WHAT????!!!!!!!!!!! I sat here ready to friggin PUKE when I heard these morons talking on camera. There were THREE 'borrowers' that were interviewed and guess what they ALL had in common?? ALL three signed for a loan they could not afford ! Worse yet, they continue (probably for litigation reasons) to insist they had no fault!!! WHAT??!?!!??!?! Oh man. I nearly had a stroke!!!!! What the fu#@????????Look, I know there are bad people in businesses. People that would do things to make a buck regardless of right or wrong. I understand. What irritates me is these borrowers claiming they "did not know" that they could not afford a half-million dollar home on a $1600 a month salary! Or, they claim they believed it because the "lender said they could".. WHATEVER! This is FOURTH GRADE friggin math, people!!!! You make $1600 and the mortgage payment is $3000...um, it DOES NOT WORK. You cannot blame that on anyone but yourself !!!!!!!There was even one lady that bought like THREE properties and her income taxes showed she was LOSING money in her business every year!! (Her quote; 'Oh! Those are MY taxes??) Yet she went ahead and signed papers for millions of dollars in loans and now claims it is NOT her fault!!!!!!!!!! Riiiiiiight....... Disgusting.
Like I said, I get that the banks have some responsibility here. No doubt. But these losers that claim they have NO fault at all make me sick!!!!!!!!!!!! Stupid people should NOT buy homes! I am SO sick of people blaming business for all there idiocy!
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:11:57 AM
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:18:22 AM |
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Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:20:43 PM |
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| [Becks] Monday, March 23, 2009 9:21:25 PM | |
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I'm not sure what the Brits reckon of Gordon Brown but I don't think he is very popular, in part because as you said, he wasn't actually elected by the public.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by spapad from Monday, March 23, 2009 9:19:07 PM)| | | spapad wrote: | | I know he is. And he is the biggest fool to ever govern, who was not ever voted in! Sold off gold reserves for a fraction! Why the hell did he do it in the first place! There are very few dumber than that fool. OOOOooops, Sorry, forgot we had Dubbah! (Quoting Message by Becks from Monday, March 23, 2009 9:15:03 PM)
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Becks wrote: |
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LMAO Gordon Brown! The old Scottish dude who took us on our boat trip on Loch Ness was like 'The English can have him he's an idiot!' (cos GB is actually Scottish lol).
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spapad wrote: |
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Darn HB, the only time I wished you lived in Britian. So I could say say two words, ........Gordon Brown.
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Head banger wrote: |
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but, one of the large issues we are not addressing is government debt. the US government owes so much, they destablize the economy just by their daily actions. if the US federal debt was half, they owuld be much further ahead. as the govt debt goes, realy, so does the banks, the corporations, and the citizens.
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ronhartsell wrote: |
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Freeze, HB, MG, strat...all of you have nailed it...blaming the institution is only allowing the individual to escape responsibility!!! No one was forced to sign their names on the dotted line, and that's what all of this boils down to...nothing more, nothing less!!!
THERE ARE NO INNOCENT VICTIMS IN THIS EXCEPT THE TAX PAYER WHO DIDN'T TAKE OUT A LOAN YET HAS NO CHOICE IN WHERE THEIR TAX DOLLARS GO!!!
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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You know, maybe I should put this in the Pissed Off Thread but last night, the Princess and I were watching Dateline NBC and they were doing a report on the "mortgage crisis". Now, before strat goes postal on me just let me say that it truly IS a situation caused by greed and corruption. I get that. Being in the business for twenty years, I saw my fair share of "questionable" loans. OK, now that I have prefaced my comments....:
WHAT????!!!!!!!!!!! I sat here ready to friggin PUKE when I heard these morons talking on camera. There were THREE 'borrowers' that were interviewed and guess what they ALL had in common?? ALL three signed for a loan they could not afford ! Worse yet, they continue (probably for litigation reasons) to insist they had no fault!!! WHAT??!?!!??!?! Oh man. I nearly had a stroke!!!!! What the fu#@????????Look, I know there are bad people in businesses. People that would do things to make a buck regardless of right or wrong. I understand. What irritates me is these borrowers claiming they "did not know" that they could not afford a half-million dollar home on a $1600 a month salary! Or, they claim they believed it because the "lender said they could".. WHATEVER! This is FOURTH GRADE friggin math, people!!!! You make $1600 and the mortgage payment is $3000...um, it DOES NOT WORK. You cannot blame that on anyone but yourself !!!!!!!There was even one lady that bought like THREE properties and her income taxes showed she was LOSING money in her business every year!! (Her quote; 'Oh! Those are MY taxes??) Yet she went ahead and signed papers for millions of dollars in loans and now claims it is NOT her fault!!!!!!!!!! Riiiiiiight....... Disgusting.
Like I said, I get that the banks have some responsibility here. No doubt. But these losers that claim they have NO fault at all make me sick!!!!!!!!!!!! Stupid people should NOT buy homes! I am SO sick of people blaming business for all there idiocy!
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:11:57 AM
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:18:22 AM |
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Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:20:43 PM |
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| [spapad] Monday, March 23, 2009 9:19:07 PM | |
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I know he is. And he is the biggest fool to ever govern, who was not ever voted in! Sold off gold reserves for a fraction! Why the hell did he do it in the first place! There are very few dumber than that fool. OOOOooops, Sorry, forgot we had Dubbah! [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Becks from Monday, March 23, 2009 9:15:03 PM)
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Becks wrote: |
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LMAO Gordon Brown! The old Scottish dude who took us on our boat trip on Loch Ness was like 'The English can have him he's an idiot!' (cos GB is actually Scottish lol).
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spapad wrote: |
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Darn HB, the only time I wished you lived in Britian. So I could say say two words, ........Gordon Brown.
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Head banger wrote: |
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but, one of the large issues we are not addressing is government debt. the US government owes so much, they destablize the economy just by their daily actions. if the US federal debt was half, they owuld be much further ahead. as the govt debt goes, realy, so does the banks, the corporations, and the citizens.
| |
|
ronhartsell wrote: |
| |
Freeze, HB, MG, strat...all of you have nailed it...blaming the institution is only allowing the individual to escape responsibility!!! No one was forced to sign their names on the dotted line, and that's what all of this boils down to...nothing more, nothing less!!!
THERE ARE NO INNOCENT VICTIMS IN THIS EXCEPT THE TAX PAYER WHO DIDN'T TAKE OUT A LOAN YET HAS NO CHOICE IN WHERE THEIR TAX DOLLARS GO!!!
| |
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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You know, maybe I should put this in the Pissed Off Thread but last night, the Princess and I were watching Dateline NBC and they were doing a report on the "mortgage crisis". Now, before strat goes postal on me just let me say that it truly IS a situation caused by greed and corruption. I get that. Being in the business for twenty years, I saw my fair share of "questionable" loans. OK, now that I have prefaced my comments....:
WHAT????!!!!!!!!!!! I sat here ready to friggin PUKE when I heard these morons talking on camera. There were THREE 'borrowers' that were interviewed and guess what they ALL had in common?? ALL three signed for a loan they could not afford ! Worse yet, they continue (probably for litigation reasons) to insist they had no fault!!! WHAT??!?!!??!?! Oh man. I nearly had a stroke!!!!! What the fu#@????????Look, I know there are bad people in businesses. People that would do things to make a buck regardless of right or wrong. I understand. What irritates me is these borrowers claiming they "did not know" that they could not afford a half-million dollar home on a $1600 a month salary! Or, they claim they believed it because the "lender said they could".. WHATEVER! This is FOURTH GRADE friggin math, people!!!! You make $1600 and the mortgage payment is $3000...um, it DOES NOT WORK. You cannot blame that on anyone but yourself !!!!!!!There was even one lady that bought like THREE properties and her income taxes showed she was LOSING money in her business every year!! (Her quote; 'Oh! Those are MY taxes??) Yet she went ahead and signed papers for millions of dollars in loans and now claims it is NOT her fault!!!!!!!!!! Riiiiiiight....... Disgusting.
Like I said, I get that the banks have some responsibility here. No doubt. But these losers that claim they have NO fault at all make me sick!!!!!!!!!!!! Stupid people should NOT buy homes! I am SO sick of people blaming business for all there idiocy!
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:11:57 AM
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:18:22 AM |
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Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:20:43 PM |
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| [Becks] Monday, March 23, 2009 9:15:03 PM | |
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LMAO Gordon Brown! The old Scottish dude who took us on our boat trip on Loch Ness was like 'The English can have him he's an idiot!' (cos GB is actually Scottish lol).
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by spapad from Monday, March 23, 2009 9:12:14 PM)| | | spapad wrote: | | Darn HB, the only time I wished you lived in Britian. So I could say say two words, ........Gordon Brown.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | but, one of the large issues we are not addressing is government debt. the US government owes so much, they destablize the economy just by their daily actions. if the US federal debt was half, they owuld be much further ahead. as the govt debt goes, realy, so does the banks, the corporations, and the citizens.
| | | ronhartsell wrote: | | Freeze, HB, MG, strat...all of you have nailed it...blaming the institution is only allowing the individual to escape responsibility!!! No one was forced to sign their names on the dotted line, and that's what all of this boils down to...nothing more, nothing less!!!
THERE ARE NO INNOCENT VICTIMS IN THIS EXCEPT THE TAX PAYER WHO DIDN'T TAKE OUT A LOAN YET HAS NO CHOICE IN WHERE THEIR TAX DOLLARS GO!!!
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | You know, maybe I should put this in the Pissed Off Thread but last night, the Princess and I were watching Dateline NBC and they were doing a report on the "mortgage crisis". Now, before strat goes postal on me just let me say that it truly IS a situation caused by greed and corruption. I get that. Being in the business for twenty years, I saw my fair share of "questionable" loans. OK, now that I have prefaced my comments....:
WHAT????!!!!!!!!!!! I sat here ready to friggin PUKE when I heard these morons talking on camera. There were THREE 'borrowers' that were interviewed and guess what they ALL had in common?? ALL three signed for a loan they could not afford ! Worse yet, they continue (probably for litigation reasons) to insist they had no fault!!! WHAT??!?!!??!?! Oh man. I nearly had a stroke!!!!! What the fu#@????????Look, I know there are bad people in businesses. People that would do things to make a buck regardless of right or wrong. I understand. What irritates me is these borrowers claiming they "did not know" that they could not afford a half-million dollar home on a $1600 a month salary! Or, they claim they believed it because the "lender said they could".. WHATEVER! This is FOURTH GRADE friggin math, people!!!! You make $1600 and the mortgage payment is $3000...um, it DOES NOT WORK. You cannot blame that on anyone but yourself !!!!!!!There was even one lady that bought like THREE properties and her income taxes showed she was LOSING money in her business every year!! (Her quote; 'Oh! Those are MY taxes??) Yet she went ahead and signed papers for millions of dollars in loans and now claims it is NOT her fault!!!!!!!!!! Riiiiiiight....... Disgusting.
Like I said, I get that the banks have some responsibility here. No doubt. But these losers that claim they have NO fault at all make me sick!!!!!!!!!!!! Stupid people should NOT buy homes! I am SO sick of people blaming business for all there idiocy!
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:11:57 AM
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:18:22 AM |
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| [spapad] Monday, March 23, 2009 9:12:14 PM | |
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Darn HB, the only time I wished you lived in Britian. So I could say say two words, ........Gordon Brown.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Monday, March 23, 2009 9:09:26 PM)| | | Head banger wrote: | | but, one of the large issues we are not addressing is government debt. the US government owes so much, they destablize the economy just by their daily actions. if the US federal debt was half, they owuld be much further ahead. as the govt debt goes, realy, so does the banks, the corporations, and the citizens.
| | | ronhartsell wrote: | | Freeze, HB, MG, strat...all of you have nailed it...blaming the institution is only allowing the individual to escape responsibility!!! No one was forced to sign their names on the dotted line, and that's what all of this boils down to...nothing more, nothing less!!!
THERE ARE NO INNOCENT VICTIMS IN THIS EXCEPT THE TAX PAYER WHO DIDN'T TAKE OUT A LOAN YET HAS NO CHOICE IN WHERE THEIR TAX DOLLARS GO!!!
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | You know, maybe I should put this in the Pissed Off Thread but last night, the Princess and I were watching Dateline NBC and they were doing a report on the "mortgage crisis". Now, before strat goes postal on me just let me say that it truly IS a situation caused by greed and corruption. I get that. Being in the business for twenty years, I saw my fair share of "questionable" loans. OK, now that I have prefaced my comments....:
WHAT????!!!!!!!!!!! I sat here ready to friggin PUKE when I heard these morons talking on camera. There were THREE 'borrowers' that were interviewed and guess what they ALL had in common?? ALL three signed for a loan they could not afford ! Worse yet, they continue (probably for litigation reasons) to insist they had no fault!!! WHAT??!?!!??!?! Oh man. I nearly had a stroke!!!!! What the fu#@????????Look, I know there are bad people in businesses. People that would do things to make a buck regardless of right or wrong. I understand. What irritates me is these borrowers claiming they "did not know" that they could not afford a half-million dollar home on a $1600 a month salary! Or, they claim they believed it because the "lender said they could".. WHATEVER! This is FOURTH GRADE friggin math, people!!!! You make $1600 and the mortgage payment is $3000...um, it DOES NOT WORK. You cannot blame that on anyone but yourself !!!!!!!There was even one lady that bought like THREE properties and her income taxes showed she was LOSING money in her business every year!! (Her quote; 'Oh! Those are MY taxes??) Yet she went ahead and signed papers for millions of dollars in loans and now claims it is NOT her fault!!!!!!!!!! Riiiiiiight....... Disgusting.
Like I said, I get that the banks have some responsibility here. No doubt. But these losers that claim they have NO fault at all make me sick!!!!!!!!!!!! Stupid people should NOT buy homes! I am SO sick of people blaming business for all there idiocy!
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:11:57 AM
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:18:22 AM |
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| [Head banger] Monday, March 23, 2009 9:09:26 PM | |
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but, one of the large issues we are not addressing is government debt. the US government owes so much, they destablize the economy just by their daily actions. if the US federal debt was half, they owuld be much further ahead. as the govt debt goes, realy, so does the banks, the corporations, and the citizens.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by ronhartsell from Monday, March 23, 2009 7:41:47 PM)| | | ronhartsell wrote: | | Freeze, HB, MG, strat...all of you have nailed it...blaming the institution is only allowing the individual to escape responsibility!!! No one was forced to sign their names on the dotted line, and that's what all of this boils down to...nothing more, nothing less!!!
THERE ARE NO INNOCENT VICTIMS IN THIS EXCEPT THE TAX PAYER WHO DIDN'T TAKE OUT A LOAN YET HAS NO CHOICE IN WHERE THEIR TAX DOLLARS GO!!!
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | You know, maybe I should put this in the Pissed Off Thread but last night, the Princess and I were watching Dateline NBC and they were doing a report on the "mortgage crisis". Now, before strat goes postal on me just let me say that it truly IS a situation caused by greed and corruption. I get that. Being in the business for twenty years, I saw my fair share of "questionable" loans. OK, now that I have prefaced my comments....:
WHAT????!!!!!!!!!!! I sat here ready to friggin PUKE when I heard these morons talking on camera. There were THREE 'borrowers' that were interviewed and guess what they ALL had in common?? ALL three signed for a loan they could not afford ! Worse yet, they continue (probably for litigation reasons) to insist they had no fault!!! WHAT??!?!!??!?! Oh man. I nearly had a stroke!!!!! What the fu#@????????Look, I know there are bad people in businesses. People that would do things to make a buck regardless of right or wrong. I understand. What irritates me is these borrowers claiming they "did not know" that they could not afford a half-million dollar home on a $1600 a month salary! Or, they claim they believed it because the "lender said they could".. WHATEVER! This is FOURTH GRADE friggin math, people!!!! You make $1600 and the mortgage payment is $3000...um, it DOES NOT WORK. You cannot blame that on anyone but yourself !!!!!!!There was even one lady that bought like THREE properties and her income taxes showed she was LOSING money in her business every year!! (Her quote; 'Oh! Those are MY taxes??) Yet she went ahead and signed papers for millions of dollars in loans and now claims it is NOT her fault!!!!!!!!!! Riiiiiiight....... Disgusting.
Like I said, I get that the banks have some responsibility here. No doubt. But these losers that claim they have NO fault at all make me sick!!!!!!!!!!!! Stupid people should NOT buy homes! I am SO sick of people blaming business for all there idiocy!
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:11:57 AM
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:18:22 AM |
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| [ron h] Monday, March 23, 2009 7:41:47 PM | |
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Freeze, HB, MG, strat...all of you have nailed it...blaming the institution is only allowing the individual to escape responsibility!!! No one was forced to sign their names on the dotted line, and that's what all of this boils down to...nothing more, nothing less!!!
THERE ARE NO INNOCENT VICTIMS IN THIS EXCEPT THE TAX PAYER WHO DIDN'T TAKE OUT A LOAN YET HAS NO CHOICE IN WHERE THEIR TAX DOLLARS GO!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Monday, March 23, 2009 8:59:18 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | You know, maybe I should put this in the Pissed Off Thread but last night, the Princess and I were watching Dateline NBC and they were doing a report on the "mortgage crisis". Now, before strat goes postal on me just let me say that it truly IS a situation caused by greed and corruption. I get that. Being in the business for twenty years, I saw my fair share of "questionable" loans. OK, now that I have prefaced my comments....:
WHAT????!!!!!!!!!!! I sat here ready to friggin PUKE when I heard these morons talking on camera. There were THREE 'borrowers' that were interviewed and guess what they ALL had in common?? ALL three signed for a loan they could not afford ! Worse yet, they continue (probably for litigation reasons) to insist they had no fault!!! WHAT??!?!!??!?! Oh man. I nearly had a stroke!!!!! What the fu#@????????Look, I know there are bad people in businesses. People that would do things to make a buck regardless of right or wrong. I understand. What irritates me is these borrowers claiming they "did not know" that they could not afford a half-million dollar home on a $1600 a month salary! Or, they claim they believed it because the "lender said they could".. WHATEVER! This is FOURTH GRADE friggin math, people!!!! You make $1600 and the mortgage payment is $3000...um, it DOES NOT WORK. You cannot blame that on anyone but yourself !!!!!!!There was even one lady that bought like THREE properties and her income taxes showed she was LOSING money in her business every year!! (Her quote; 'Oh! Those are MY taxes??) Yet she went ahead and signed papers for millions of dollars in loans and now claims it is NOT her fault!!!!!!!!!! Riiiiiiight....... Disgusting.
Like I said, I get that the banks have some responsibility here. No doubt. But these losers that claim they have NO fault at all make me sick!!!!!!!!!!!! Stupid people should NOT buy homes! I am SO sick of people blaming business for all there idiocy!
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:11:57 AM
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:18:22 AM |
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| [ron h] Monday, March 23, 2009 7:27:20 PM | |
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Hey there Darth...I am not an employee of the Chicago Ford plant, we support a supplier of Ford, a sub-contractor if you will...we assemble the sub-assembly of the seats they install...we are a UAW plant and as the chairman I work closely with the leaders of the other plants as well...the entire way they (Ford) run their business is to only build to 'demand'. As a result we work 1 shift (down from 2), we work 4/10's (as compared to 5/8's) to cut utilities (among other costs), and they schedule 'plant shut-downs' to give dealerships time to sell as well as cut costs all across the board...obviously this trickles down to all the IPS (Independant Parts Suppliers) in the 'food chain'...more specifically, I do not recieve the same benefits as a Ford employee...it was also mentioned that Ford workers get to draw from a Ford sponsored 'unemployment fund' that essentially gives a laid-off worker up to 85% of their gross...that was true until recently when the UAW and Ford re-negotiated the 'master agreement' which essentially eliminated that benefit as well as other cut backs...Ford and the union did what (ironically) GM and Chrysler have not, and Ford hasn't stuck it's hand in the 'bail-out cookie jar' yet, and are truly making every effort not to...these are steps that the 'other 2' are required to do in order to show 'FORWARD PROGRESS' BUT AS OF YET HAVE NOT!!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Darth_Painkiller_0870 from Monday, March 23, 2009 5:57:12 AM)| | | Darth_Painkiller_0870 wrote: | | Honestly? I do not know how the union's contract with Ford is structured. Ron would be the person to better answer that question, since he works in that industry.
| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Do they pay pay the wages at least?
| | | Darth_Painkiller_0870 wrote: | | Not at all strat. There is plenty of work for Ron and the auto industry workers. What's happening is that Ford, along with General Motors and probably Chrysler too....they shut down plants for a couple of weeks to save money.
| | | _strat_ wrote: | | You mean theres no work, and theyre sending you on the "vacation" (thats how they call it here - unpaid, of course)? Damit, that sucks... Theyre doing it here too, tho fortunately, not in my section. Yet. Do you at least get paid for those three weeks?
If this shit goes on, we will all be living in huts by next year...
| | | ronhartsell wrote: | | Not for me, the plant where I work at will be closed for 3 weeks...(thank you Ford Motor Company!!!)
| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Just dropping by to say hi to both of you... I wont be on much today. Got a LOT of work.
Yup. 4 more days till friday... 6 till sunday... Then it starts all over again. |
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| [Becks] Monday, March 23, 2009 6:59:44 PM | |
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Ah I just had a really good play with my new drum kit, woohoo! Hehe electronic is good for no annoying the neighbours  now it's quesidillas for lunch, yum. |
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