Do you believe Metallica is a sell out band, or a great heavy metal band? Debate here.
[metalfan2410] Sunday, August 19, 2012 11:34:24 PM
Metallica is a great metal band.
Just saw the live in mexico city and it was one of the best shows i´ve seen.
[Budred] Friday, June 01, 2012 4:11:24 PM
Five Finger Death Punch.
Sellouts? Really?
They may have polished up a little but I think they improve everytime out.
Oh well,
your opinion matters to you,
my opinion matters to me,
and that's all that matters. (LOL)
I can't wait to see them this summer.
Take care man, peace. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by CoyoteBongwaterReturns from Thursday, May 31, 2012 8:55:03 PM)
CoyoteBongwaterReturns wrote:
wether they are , or not, theyre no match for five finger death punch in the department of selling out
[CoyoteBongwaterReturns] Thursday, May 31, 2012 8:55:03 PM
wether they are , or not, theyre no match for five finger death punch in the department of selling out
[electriceyespies] Tuesday, May 29, 2012 6:12:29 PM
[This message has been banned]
[J.D. DIAMOND] Thursday, March 15, 2012 6:53:42 AM
Onslaught - Lord Of Evil - 1985 Early primative Death Metal. This album does have some early "thrash" too,but mostly primative death metal like this:
One thousand years a captor banished to the pit
Satan calls his armies to rise up from the crypts
They're rising from Tartarus vengeance in their eyes
Power from below the earth from where all evils lie
Satan captor in his realm bound for 1,000 years
Evil, hatred burns inside vengeance fire from the skies
[CHORUS:]
The lord of evil he rides again
The lord of evil 1,000 years he was held a slave
Deep inside the depths of hell along the river Styx
Charon rows his boat of death around the burning pits
The advocate for Satan a worldwide death crusade
Cruel death fighting demons will rule the earth his way
[CHORUS]
Edited at: Thursday, March 15, 2012 6:58:45 AM
[guidogodoy] Wednesday, March 14, 2012 5:57:28 PM
Oooooooooh! Bitchslap! LOL!!
I've got you by a couple of years, JD, and I think that anyone who is roughly our age can define "glam metal" with just a few examples: Faster Pussycat! Poison! Bleah!! Who the hell needs Wiki to tell you that assclowns with walls of hair, lipstick and little to no musical talent whatsoever is "glam metal?" (LOL!! I just described my own picture in my profile save for the fact that I don't CLAIM to know how to play music and don't have any bad music videos! HAAAAAA!!!!)
As for your point about not being a true Priest fan if you don't like every song, Right on. What type of screwed-up thinking would lead to a conclusion like that one? Hell, you know I like more Priest than you (or even most) but EVERY song?! Who the hell would we be? Bwian?! I'll even go so far as saying that I absolutely HATE some songs ... and you even named some of them!
You are also right in that not knowing about a genre of music is completely different from not liking them. I hear an awful lot of country music here. I know it well. Can't say that I like have much of a hankerin' fer it!
Sorry Hell Bent,but I know more about metal music than most people on this forum. I've been HEAVILY into metal music since 1981. I understand fully about genres,and yes I didn't need wikipedia to learn of glam metal/rock,its been a genre in the 80's. Unfortunately you do not understand very much about metal music at all from your posts.
I understand fully about metal guy,I'm 41 years old and have been into traditional metal for years. The things I hate are the things you think I don't understand.Well let me tell you that I understand fully,I just hate them.
That would be like me saying someone like Budred doesn't know anything about metal music just because I don't get into the majority of bands he does,he has seen countless live shows more than most I know,and knows also of some underground metal,he is just not into the majority of bands I am into but is well aware of the styles and genres ect...do you understand?
"If I hate something that is fully commercial or weak you and some people jump to the conclusion that I just don't understand the style of music and if I did understand it I might like it". That is false.
And I don't 'hate the JUdas Priest"(lol) just because I don't like every song doesn't mean I hate the band Hell Bent,thats ridiculous.
The "wikipedia" is for "YOU" Hell Bent to look up and learn that there is a genre of "glam rock/metal". The fact that you are unaware of this shows me that you actually are lacking knowledge of metal music in general.
And Advice: Make sure you study all genres of metal,and the metal underground before engaging into a conversation with someone with my knowlege,sorry for sounding stuck up but I'm sticking up for my knowledge of metal music which is absolutely further advanced than yours,obviously. Good day!
(Quoting Message by HELL BENT FOR JUDAS from Wednesday, March 14, 2012 2:22:06 PM)
HELL BENT FOR JUDAS wrote:
Wikipedia? HAHAH lol.Unfortunately J.D. DIAMOND you dont understand METAL music.
I hope ypu have not serioue ear problem.This wikipedia thing says everything about your musical talent.
But basically you have a good taste at least.This situation is not so nasty.
You can't recognice the music styles. The "RAM IT DOWN" and "HARD AS IRON" are speed metal tracks too
Anyway the ONSLAUGHT-POWER FROM HELL album is nothing to do with death metal.
I think J.D. DIAMOND you hate the JUDAS PRIEST.No problem.This is your choice.
Anyway i think you don't like the truth. You behave like a Pmrc agent. This is very ridicolous.
But this is your choice too.And i hope you do this by your heart and not for money.
Imo you and Budred are too material persons.Please don't search in JUDAS PRIEST
musicians' wallets. Because its' disgusting and impudent behaviour.
But no problem! We are not the same.
And advice:don't read too much wikipedia or Kerrang magazine.
Edited at: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 4:37:29 PM
[J.D. DIAMOND] Wednesday, March 14, 2012 5:05:16 PM
Ram It Down may be considered speed metal,but Hard As Iron is absolutely not. Its not even that fast? Are you kidding me? And the Onslaught debut LP 'Power From Hell" has nothing to do with "death metal"? How old are you Hell Bent?
I was 15 years old in 1985 when I bought Power From Hell,sure we knew back then it sounded "thrash" but it was pure early primative "death metal" as said so by the band,and you can hear traces of death metal in the LP,and on the back cover it says Death Metal,inner sleave says death metal at it's heavist 1985,which for back then it really was death metal.
Now that the 90's have come and gone we now know death metal to have it's sound like the deeper growled vocals ect.... back then Possessed was considered death metal and also black metal too,Sepultura's Bestial Devistation 1985 was as well,1983 Hellhammer was death metal back then too.
Onslaught Power From Hell is a Death Metal album in 1985. Those who disagree is like saying Venom's Black Metal album 1982 isn't really "black metal". Or saying Judas Priest's British Steel isn't really "heavy metal" but rock? Same thing. Power From Hell has everything to do with the primative blue prints of death metal,fact.
Wikipedia? HAHAH lol.Unfortunately J.D. DIAMOND you dont understand METAL music.
I hope ypu have not serioue ear problem.This wikipedia thing says everything about your musical talent.
But basically you have a good taste at least.This situation is not so nasty.
You can't recognice the music styles. The "RAM IT DOWN" and "HARD AS IRON" are speed metal tracks too
Anyway the ONSLAUGHT-POWER FROM HELL album is nothing to do with death metal.
I think J.D. DIAMOND you hate the JUDAS PRIEST.No problem.This is your choice.
Anyway i think you don't like the truth. You behave like a Pmrc agent. This is very ridicolous.
But this is your choice too.And i hope you do this by your heart and not for money.
Imo you and Budred are too material persons.Please don't search in JUDAS PRIEST
musicians' wallets. Because its' disgusting and impudent behaviour.
But no problem! We are not the same.
And advice:don't read too much wikipedia or Kerrang magazine.
[J.D. DIAMOND] Wednesday, March 14, 2012 4:23:32 PM
Sorry Hell Bent,but I know more about metal music than most people on this forum. I've been HEAVILY into metal music since 1981. I understand fully about genres,and yes I didn't need wikipedia to learn of glam metal/rock,its been a genre in the 80's. Unfortunately you do not understand very much about metal music at all from your posts.
I understand fully about metal guy,I'm 41 years old and have been into traditional metal for years. The things I hate are the things you think I don't understand.Well let me tell you that I understand fully,I just hate them.
That would be like me saying someone like Budred doesn't know anything about metal music just because I don't get into the majority of bands he does,he has seen countless live shows more than most I know,and knows also of some underground metal,he is just not into the majority of bands I am into but is well aware of the styles and genres ect...do you understand?
"If I hate something that is fully commercial or weak you and some people jump to the conclusion that I just don't understand the style of music and if I did understand it I might like it". That is false.
And I don't 'hate the JUdas Priest"(lol) just because I don't like every song doesn't mean I hate the band Hell Bent,thats ridiculous.
The "wikipedia" is for "YOU" Hell Bent to look up and learn that there is a genre of "glam rock/metal". The fact that you are unaware of this shows me that you actually are lacking knowledge of metal music in general.
And Advice: Make sure you study all genres of metal,and the metal underground before engaging into a conversation with someone with my knowlege,sorry for sounding stuck up but I'm sticking up for my knowledge of metal music which is absolutely further advanced than yours,obviously. Good day!
Wikipedia? HAHAH lol.Unfortunately J.D. DIAMOND you dont understand METAL music.
I hope ypu have not serioue ear problem.This wikipedia thing says everything about your musical talent.
But basically you have a good taste at least.This situation is not so nasty.
You can't recognice the music styles. The "RAM IT DOWN" and "HARD AS IRON" are speed metal tracks too
Anyway the ONSLAUGHT-POWER FROM HELL album is nothing to do with death metal.
I think J.D. DIAMOND you hate the JUDAS PRIEST.No problem.This is your choice.
Anyway i think you don't like the truth. You behave like a Pmrc agent. This is very ridicolous.
But this is your choice too.And i hope you do this by your heart and not for money.
Imo you and Budred are too material persons.Please don't search in JUDAS PRIEST
musicians' wallets. Because its' disgusting and impudent behaviour.
But no problem! We are not the same.
And advice:don't read too much wikipedia or Kerrang magazine.
Edited at: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 4:37:29 PM
[HELL BENT FOR JUDAS] Wednesday, March 14, 2012 2:22:06 PM
Wikipedia? HAHAH lol.Unfortunately J.D. DIAMOND you dont understand METAL music.
I hope ypu have not serioue ear problem.This wikipedia thing says everything about your musical talent.
But basically you have a good taste at least.This situation is not so nasty.
You can't recognice the music styles. The "RAM IT DOWN" and "HARD AS IRON" are speed metal tracks too
Anyway the ONSLAUGHT-POWER FROM HELL album is nothing to do with death metal.
I think J.D. DIAMOND you hate the JUDAS PRIEST.No problem.This is your choice.
Anyway i think you don't like the truth. You behave like a Pmrc agent. This is very ridicolous.
But this is your choice too.And i hope you do this by your heart and not for money.
Imo you and Budred are too material persons.Please don't search in JUDAS PRIEST
musicians' wallets. Because its' disgusting and impudent behaviour.
But no problem! We are not the same.
And advice:don't read too much wikipedia or Kerrang magazine.
[J.D. DIAMOND] Wednesday, March 14, 2012 4:20:15 AM
(Laughing out loud) I'm not trying to convince anybody to think the way I do,I just enjoy dogging the Turbo album HA. And glam rock is too a music definition,look it up on wikipedia,it will tell you the same thing haha. Look it up! Speed metal is on Ram It Down,well just the song Ram It Down,none others.
Yes they play heavy metal tracks on the Ram It Down album but it just sucks,even the track Ram It Down isn't really anything to write home about,but its "ok"...ehhhh...ok.
I do not love every Priest record,I hate Turbo,Demolition and Nostradamus.
Ram It Down has been walking on thin ice since the day I bought it in 1988 and sometimes breaks through,I was excited about it only because of how shitty the Turbo album was and I didn't realize how dull Ram It Down was untill Painkiller came out to compare it with lol.
Metallica was indeed an "underground" band up till the Master Of Puppets album. The did no video and did no radio,I remember it clear back in those days the underground vibe they had it was the biggest following in the underground's history and thier first 3 LPs were very cool and then they lost Cliff,that was the end of Metallica. I like the Master Of Puppets album,however I may never listen to it again,or anything by shitallica because of how they are nowadays,ruined it for me.
The entire Seattle grunge scene was a total joke,I live up here and remember it well too. We were into Morbid Angel,Deicide and our favorite black metal bands from the 80's when this shit was out and had to listen to Seattle idiots rave about it,it was horrible and I'm glad its "dead".
Sometimes i don't care J.D. DIAMOND serious.I don't wanna convince him or others.Musical taste is a subjective thing.
I just point to some things(imo facts) The "TURBO" album contains 9 HEAVY METAL songs(Glam ,hair are not music style definitions) and
2 SPEED METAL and 8 HEAVY METAL tracks are on the"RAM IT DOWN" album I don't care the financial situation, because the life is too short
for needless analysis.I love every JUDAS PRIEST album and i consider by my heart and mind.
The Metallica is another case to me.the "Master of Puppets" album is a talentless, boring thing ruled by unimaginitive songwriting.
Hetfield is a awful, weak singer or speaker.Metallica is an overrepresented, extremely well managed band, on other hand better than the
incredible talentless disgusting Nirvana(Kurt Cobain's band). i think Metallica never was a real underground band.Imo the Metallica and Nirvana
successes based on similar roots(See their big punk influences,Mtv success,and the situation of Metallica in trash and function of Nirvana in grunge/alternative
dung movements.
Uunfortunately Metallica and Nirvana are far popular in a some circles than the JUDAS PRIEST.Because the JUDAS PRIEST is not sellout band.
But the bigger problem is the following:You(J.D. DIAMOND and Sik Vikki) put on same class the glorious JUDAS PRIEST and the weak,unlucky Metallica, this is a SHAME.
Metallica and PURE METAL?LOL!! Metallica with their big punk influence? Mega-LOL!!!
Edited at: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 4:21:33 AM
[HELL BENT FOR JUDAS] Tuesday, March 13, 2012 8:24:15 PM
Sometimes i don't care J.D. DIAMOND serious.I don't wanna convince him or others.Musical taste is a subjective thing.
I just point to some things(imo facts) The "TURBO" album contains 9 HEAVY METAL songs(Glam ,hair are not music style definitions) and
2 SPEED METAL and 8 HEAVY METAL tracks are on the"RAM IT DOWN" album I don't care the financial situation, because the life is too short
for needless analysis.I love every JUDAS PRIEST album and i consider by my heart and mind.
The Metallica is another case to me.the "Master of Puppets" album is a talentless, boring thing ruled by unimaginitive songwriting.
Hetfield is a awful, weak singer or speaker.Metallica is an overrepresented, extremely well managed band, on other hand better than the
incredible talentless disgusting Nirvana(Kurt Cobain's band). i think Metallica never was a real underground band.Imo the Metallica and Nirvana
successes based on similar roots(See their big punk influences,Mtv success,and the situation of Metallica in trash and function of Nirvana in grunge/alternative
dung movements.
Uunfortunately Metallica and Nirvana are far popular in a some circles than the JUDAS PRIEST.Because the JUDAS PRIEST is not sellout band.
But the bigger problem is the following:You(J.D. DIAMOND and Sik Vikki) put on same class the glorious JUDAS PRIEST and the weak,unlucky Metallica, this is a SHAME.
Metallica and PURE METAL?LOL!! Metallica with their big punk influence? Mega-LOL!!!
[J.D. DIAMOND] Tuesday, March 13, 2012 7:06:23 AM
lol ahh bull loney. Metallica are a bunch of sell outs and they suck for doing it in 1988 when they did the "one" video. Ever since they have got worse and worse. You can force yourself to belive that they didn't sell out and yadda yadda yadda but they did. The Turbo album is a total sellout too.
Thats not the reason I hate the Turbo album or Metallica's albums after Master of Puppets,the reason is the poor song writting for my taste. The Black album is a disgrace to "metal" music in general,bullshit how they made kid's moms like Metallica with the black album,made me sick.
Priest has always been commercial from Rocka Rolla till now,always but with Turbo they totally dropped thier sound entierly for a shit hair band/type album in 1986 that was popular at that time and just to get more fans and make some big time bucks. Fuckin lame. The Ram It Down album really is a shit album too if you think about it....all the tracks are really B-side Priest tracks at best,but its better than shit Turbo album thats for sure.
And whats wrong with being narrow minded? I'm the most narrow-minded member on this site I'd bet,I don't like "rock" music,the only rock bands that I like are old Kiss(1973-1982 except for the crappy Dynasty and Unmasked albums),Black Sabbath(they are blue print of heavy metal)Motorhead,Rainbow with Dio and thats about it. And the only rock bands I still listen to out of those are Motorhead and sometimes very rarely old Black Sabbath.
The rest of the bands I like have some sort of metal in them,primative,speed,traditional heavy,black,occult but they are all in thier purest forms. I enjoy being narrow minded,back in the 80's I was called a "metal head". lol.
Do i think Metallica sold out? Not at all... selling out would be iuf they changed their music style to simply gain popularity/record sales. Mind you... the were VERY popular after Master of Puppets CD was released. My thought is that Dave Mustaine's involvement with the band GREATLY influenced their style... and perhaps that involvement took James, Lars, and Cliff in directions they would have otherwise not have gone. Remember also that Jason Newstead's style greatly slowed down in Metallica as well. Hearing him play in Flotsam & Jetsam... the stuff he played was much harder and faster than anything he played while with metallica. Another guess is that Metallica wanted to explore new avenues of playing... King Nothing has some basslines that aren't all that difficult to play... but nonetheless I find them as artistic as Ian's Bass lines in The Rage. Selling out is such an overused term in the music industry. Another thing to remember is that Judas Priest had some various changes to music over the years. the Turbo CD is still very enjoyable to listen to... but I really loved hearing it played without the synth guitars in the Live in London CD. Remember that Heavy Metal is Music and therefore a form of art... there are no rules... and just because an album can be made to sound commercial... doesn't mean it's a sellout album... even Megadeth had Countdown To Extinction and Youthanasia CDs to prove that point. The true trick to being a musician is being able to step out of the box and try new ideas, and I know cause I play bass myself and even playing stuff like Lynyrd Skynyrd can be enjoyable to play at times. I don't personally think that any particular music "sucks" cause that would only cause me to get narrow-minded. Sure there are thiungs i don't quite like myself, but i wouldn't put the music down simply because my taste differs with it. I simply enjoy as much as I can. one thing i would like to see however in the tabs library is some of Ian's stuff... i think that songster.com posts are WAAAAAY off with a lot of songs.
Edited at: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 7:17:01 AM
[Sik Vikki] Tuesday, March 13, 2012 2:54:28 AM
Do i think Metallica sold out? Not at all... selling out would be iuf they changed their music style to simply gain popularity/record sales. Mind you... the were VERY popular after Master of Puppets CD was released. My thought is that Dave Mustaine's involvement with the band GREATLY influenced their style... and perhaps that involvement took James, Lars, and Cliff in directions they would have otherwise not have gone. Remember also that Jason Newstead's style greatly slowed down in Metallica as well. Hearing him play in Flotsam & Jetsam... the stuff he played was much harder and faster than anything he played while with metallica. Another guess is that Metallica wanted to explore new avenues of playing... King Nothing has some basslines that aren't all that difficult to play... but nonetheless I find them as artistic as Ian's Bass lines in The Rage. Selling out is such an overused term in the music industry. Another thing to remember is that Judas Priest had some various changes to music over the years. the Turbo CD is still very enjoyable to listen to... but I really loved hearing it played without the synth guitars in the Live in London CD. Remember that Heavy Metal is Music and therefore a form of art... there are no rules... and just because an album can be made to sound commercial... doesn't mean it's a sellout album... even Megadeth had Countdown To Extinction and Youthanasia CDs to prove that point. The true trick to being a musician is being able to step out of the box and try new ideas, and I know cause I play bass myself and even playing stuff like Lynyrd Skynyrd can be enjoyable to play at times. I don't personally think that any particular music "sucks" cause that would only cause me to get narrow-minded. Sure there are thiungs i don't quite like myself, but i wouldn't put the music down simply because my taste differs with it. I simply enjoy as much as I can. one thing i would like to see however in the tabs library is some of Ian's stuff... i think that songster.com posts are WAAAAAY off with a lot of songs.
[RiPpErBoss] Saturday, March 03, 2012 8:46:33 PM
[This message has been banned]
[icecreamman] Saturday, January 21, 2012 11:53:36 PM
Metallica broke up in 1983. Metlica has been the new name for that band ever since! Lol
[Judas Priest / One For The Road] Wednesday, January 11, 2012 1:12:22 AM
Lou Reed + Metallica=SELLOUT!!
[johnnybastard] Tuesday, January 10, 2012 3:33:24 PM
The first two albums are awesome!(cos' the riffs of Dave Mustaine) ...and justice for all, and master of puppets are okay, but not good. To me in the end, sorry i'm not trying to offend anyone, but in the end i think Metallica are /SelloutS\
[Stratovarius217] Thursday, November 10, 2011 6:16:44 PM
Metallica is not that great
I don't know why but I hardly like any of their song
Just Fuel Master of Puppets the Sandman song whatever its called
I watched a video where the singer inhaled helium and started singing then said that this was Judas Priest
[HELL BENT FOR JUDAS] Thursday, November 10, 2011 5:41:46 PM
A guy asked me for opinion about Metallica"Master Of Puppets" album on other section.I tried to listen from start to finish.
But i cannot do this.
I start with the best part.The best song is the "Battery" and this is undeniable.Because this song is the shortest!
What can we see besides?
Jerky guitar themes,songs without invetions and ideas,bad sounds.This is a boring machine music with some average
moments.When Hetfield speaks "Sanitarium" everybody can find maybe the "deepest" moment of the album.
What a pseudo-sternness! Ha-ha!! It's very ridicolous!
"Disposable Heroes" is a very heavy and boring track.The ."Master Of Puppets" song contains one of the weakest "vocal" performance ever.
This track is boring as hell!
All in all if i wanna listen extrem music , i will use the ATHEIST "Piece Of Time" album. Edited at: Thursday, November 10, 2011 5:42:23 PM Edited at: Thursday, November 10, 2011 5:43:52 PM Edited at: Thursday, November 10, 2011 5:46:23 PM
[HELL BENT FOR JUDAS] Thursday, November 03, 2011 3:55:21 PM
METALLICA is overrated but the "Fade To Black","Creeping Death","Escape" are outstanding tracks.
[.] Friday, July 01, 2011 12:37:34 AM
If you consider the topic of this discussion, whether they're sell-outs or a great band, you must factor in that stand taken by Metallica regarding illegal downloading. They've sided with the big labels that have been supportive of them and left those who just wanted free downloads a bit miffed. Who sold out to whom here, anyway?
To me it's irrelevant now because why worry about crap like that? It just ruins the whole magic.
The two times I've seen Metallica, it was awesome. Great metal band!
That they can play and bring the audience to a frenzy is pretty much what I've seen with my own two eyes.
But in the end, Dave Mustaine has won.
[guidogodoy] Thursday, June 30, 2011 7:46:34 PM
Call me stupid but I honestly don't see how "downloading and the internet" factored into any of the arguments presented. From what I read, [.] is arguing both sides of the coin. It caused the downfall of Humanity as we know it by complicating things with "more laws, more lawyers, more hands in the pie" yet they still pack arenas and "deliver" (in YOUR opinion, I assure you). Things were perhaps better with record labels (=marketing) holding all the chips? Uhhhh....Gull and Priest? Come in here, dear boy, have a cigar there Chainsaw Charlie. I don't buy it.
Back on topic. Are Metallica sell-outs? No. They simply suck today. Push the argument back a few decades and I'd argue differently. Legacy, though? Of course, like Maiden, they'll go down as one of the greatest. Sadly, they went down long ago.
Oh yeah, I don't have any use for Pantera either but have always liked Diamond Head. Thanks, to no small degree, to Metallica introducing their music to a wider audience with their covers.
[Head banger] Thursday, June 30, 2011 7:02:59 PM
marketing can create popularity in the absence of skill for sure.
and your right, metalica and a lot of bands seemed to lose the passion for the music. frankly when you can come off stage doing a half assed performance, do a line of coke and as many chicks as you want I can see where refining your craft and creating anger and emotion take a back seat.
I still dont have a lot of use for pantera. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by . from Thursday, June 30, 2011 3:56:13 PM)
. wrote:
Money and mainstream popularity do enter the equation but in less degree than you might think. The marketing aspect exists but that really isn't all because there are more metal/rock bands with real poor marketing than with good marketing. I guess it comes with the territory.
Pantera is a major influence on all kinds of bands from all musical origins. In JP's Jugulator the influence of Pantera is strong. The fact that all sorts of bands either imitate your sound, cover your songs or quote what you say seems a better marker to determine how great you are.
You probably know the earlier recordings of Metallica and shit. See their covers? Those were the bands that influenced them and most were not as popular as ZZTop, Deep Purple or Black Sabbath.
Just the other day I posted a link to a YouTube vid with Diamond Head in this Noticeboard and nobody said a thing.
The only way I can say Metallica are a bunch of sell outs is when they charge to see them and they don't deliver. Their new musical direction in the studio looks like a compass without a North mainly because to create new metal you have to be pissed off at something real bad.
It's hard to be pissed off when the world is at your feet.
Edited at: Thursday, June 30, 2011 4:04:28 PM
[.] Thursday, June 30, 2011 3:56:13 PM
Money and mainstream popularity do enter the equation but in less degree than you might think. The marketing aspect exists but that really isn't all because there are more metal/rock bands with real poor marketing than with good marketing. I guess it comes with the territory.
Pantera is a major influence on all kinds of bands from all musical origins. In JP's Jugulator the influence of Pantera is strong. The fact that all sorts of bands either imitate your sound, cover your songs or quote what you say seems a better marker to determine how great you are.
You probably know the earlier recordings of Metallica and shit. See their covers? Those were the bands that influenced them and most were not as popular as ZZTop, Deep Purple or Black Sabbath.
Just the other day I posted a link to a YouTube vid with Diamond Head in this Noticeboard and nobody said a thing.
The only way I can say Metallica are a bunch of sell outs is when they charge to see them and they don't deliver. Their new musical direction in the studio looks like a compass without a North mainly because to create new metal you have to be pissed off at something real bad.
It's hard to be pissed off when the world is at your feet.
Ok, who are the greatest American metal band ever then? (Don't say Mushroomhead either).
Budred wrote:
I think after the "Black" album they did get a little lazy. There at least didn't seem to be much of an effort to put out
heavy metal records anymore. The "Load" album proved that with garbage like "King Nothing" and "Hero of the Day"
and a number of other shit songs on that one. "Re-Load" was a little better but still not up to par with their early material.
I think these two albums started their slide towards suckdom. Then too much experimentation killed them. They were the
greatest "American" metal band for a period. From "Load" on, not even close.
jimmyjames wrote:
One of the best metal bands there has ever been. Definately the best American metal band ever. The Black album wasn't sellout and it definately wasn't lazy, they worked hard on that and got a huge sound happening. It's success was based on being the culmination of 10 years hard graft. They had been building momentum all that time. Justice had sold something like two million copies so by the time Black was released metal was being accepted in the mainstream. Black just hit at the right time and took Metallica over the top. After that they just wanted to take it in a different direction and it didn't really work. Load and Reload are fucking great American heavy rock albums though, there's some killer stuff on both of those. The Symphony thing is a bunch of pretentious shit but it's not a sellout, it's actually a risk, again to do something different. St. Anger is an abortion. Probably the worst album by a major act ever. Just crap, and if you watch the Some Kind Of Monster dvd you can see why. Egos and money and fuckwits like Bob Rock and that shrink thinking they were actually in the band was hideous. The whole album was a trainwreck and an embarrassment. Death Magnetic I think is pretty shit as well. They are trying to get their oold heavy sound back but at the same time they are trying to "out heavy" bands like Machine Head and it's not gonna happen. What they need to do is go back to listening to the old British metal albums of the 80s like Maiden and Diamond Head and Venom and Motorhead that they used to listen to and just speed that stuff up. That's what they did best and that's what the sound they are trying to recapture was.
Edited at: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:43:30 AM
[Head banger] Thursday, June 30, 2011 7:36:19 AM
money and popularity have to enter into it. you cant say that a band that virtualy no one likes is the best.
and sorry, I still dont see pantera. frankly their best comes in right around the reload mark for me. that is, stuck in a box somewhere.
[.] Thursday, June 30, 2011 2:31:15 AM
If you are going to use money issues to determine the legacy and greatness of a metal band, then you are using the wrong markers.
[guidogodoy] Thursday, June 30, 2011 1:37:28 AM
Truth be told, I don't think I have spoken much about Metallica or Maiden much except to reiteritate my point in that they were once great. I used to love them. Now I pity them.
If your model of sounding off after poor Lars in that "the Internet is the cause of the loss of revinue" (poor guy can only buy three planes now...see South Park) and that downloading has killed their revinue, why can EMINEM or even Foo Fighters still fill arenas? Sure, the model changed, but the dinosaurs didn't adapt. Plain and simple. If you want to talk real numbers, those that DID made and continue to make a killing in bypassing the record stores selling directly to the public. Ah yes, and let's not forget merchandising. Hell, I just shelled out another hundred for more Metal God shirts + 2 DVDs.
Your argument about IM's DOD doensn't hold water. Check YouTube and compare their pitiful numbers against Justin Bieber. Both suck, IMO, but the kid DWARFS Maiden. Musical shit (as I argue both are) aside, were you to book one act for your concert hall, which would it be? Like it or not, the "large audience" will be with the kid with the funny haircut 1000=1. Think downloading music has hurt him much?
Then why discuss Metallica at all? Or Iron Maiden? If they're such irrelevant jokes today, why bother talking about them at all?
To tell the truth, they both draw large audiences - STILL - and their live shows are still worth every buck. It's hard to compare when they were fresh young guys reeking of diapers to the grown up and calloused musicians of today... and still be fair. In that we agree.
As for Megadeth, they're still around and I hold them in the same high regard as I do Metallica. If I'm not mistaken - please correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm usually wrong - Megadeth endorses the Mayhem fest (or something like it).
The difference from when they became big to now is that the internet and downloading changed the whole thing, but you already know that and I'm being redundant by saying it.
It made it more complicated, with more hands in the pie, more laws and more lawyers, and Metallica showed difficulty in adapting to that kind of situation, I think. Truly protective of their shit, that lot.
If the main interest of all bands concerned was to make shitloads of money by selling records once hitting mainstream, now it can't be that way anymore. It's the live shows that make the cash and it's where these bands still excel - thus drawing thousands.
Stuff from IM's Dance of Death may sound contrived to you, but if you check YouTube you will see it works fine with a large audience.
guidogodoy wrote:
Sorry. I don't seem to recall anyone complaining about old Metallica.
Look at your calendar (while you decide if you have "a nut" or not) and I hope you notice that this was almost 30 YEARS ago now! FFS! Metallica of new is like Maiden of new. Both are pure jokes.
Sadly, though, I can't come up with any American band that did have more influence on metal. "DID" being the key word.
Yeah I was thinking about Pantera too but if I really compared the two Metallica were probably better at their peak. I would have to say that if you took Metallicas first five and Pantera from Cowboys through to Reinventing Metallica would probably have the edge, for me anyway. The amount of times I've listened to Ride The Lightning over the years completely dwarfs the amount of time I've listened to Vulgar Display. Megadeth is a good call. They are definately bringing out way better shit than Metallica these days. Saw an interview with Mustaine the other day actually and he reckons the material he's working on now is his best since Countdown. But yeah they've been consistantly good for a long time but they've never reached the heights of Metallica, they've never reached the lows either. Slayer are pretty consistant too, never put out a bad album.
Budred wrote:
If you want to base an opinion on their first five albums then I agree with you. No one has done what they have.
That also makes me correct in saying they were the greatest for a period. If you want to base it on an entire history or catalog
then I would say maybe Pantera. They put out some pretty heavy shit that might equal what Metallica did. My top answer
for overall consistancy and longevity would be Megadeth. They (in my opinion) have yet to release an album that is utter crap.
You even stated they were better than Metallica on the Big Four so that tells me they still have it. I'm going to see them next
month and I can't wait. Lastly, "Any" metal band putting out good albums is better than current Metallica.
I'm not bashing Metallica. Up to a certain point I thought they were great and like you state maybe the best "American" metal
band out there. All I'm saying is that they're not so great anymore.
[.] Thursday, June 30, 2011 1:11:48 AM
Then why discuss Metallica at all? Or Iron Maiden? If they're such irrelevant jokes today, why bother talking about them at all?
To tell the truth, they both draw large audiences - STILL - and their live shows are still worth every buck. It's hard to compare when they were fresh young guys reeking of diapers to the grown up and calloused musicians of today... and still be fair. In that we agree.
As for Megadeth, they're still around and I hold them in the same high regard as I do Metallica. If I'm not mistaken - please correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm usually wrong - Megadeth endorses the Mayhem fest (or something like it).
The difference from when they became big to now is that the internet and downloading changed the whole thing, but you already know that and I'm being redundant by saying it.
It made it more complicated, with more hands in the pie, more laws and more lawyers, and Metallica showed difficulty in adapting to that kind of situation, I think. Truly protective of their shit, that lot.
If the main interest of all bands concerned was to make shitloads of money by selling records once hitting mainstream, now it can't be that way anymore. It's the live shows that make the cash and it's where these bands still excel - thus drawing thousands.
Stuff from IM's Dance of Death may sound contrived to you, but if you check YouTube you will see it works fine with a large audience.
Sorry. I don't seem to recall anyone complaining about old Metallica.
Look at your calendar (while you decide if you have "a nut" or not) and I hope you notice that this was almost 30 YEARS ago now! FFS! Metallica of new is like Maiden of new. Both are pure jokes.
Sadly, though, I can't come up with any American band that did have more influence on metal. "DID" being the key word.
Yeah I was thinking about Pantera too but if I really compared the two Metallica were probably better at their peak. I would have to say that if you took Metallicas first five and Pantera from Cowboys through to Reinventing Metallica would probably have the edge, for me anyway. The amount of times I've listened to Ride The Lightning over the years completely dwarfs the amount of time I've listened to Vulgar Display. Megadeth is a good call. They are definately bringing out way better shit than Metallica these days. Saw an interview with Mustaine the other day actually and he reckons the material he's working on now is his best since Countdown. But yeah they've been consistantly good for a long time but they've never reached the heights of Metallica, they've never reached the lows either. Slayer are pretty consistant too, never put out a bad album. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by Budred from Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:53:07 AM)
Budred wrote:
If you want to base an opinion on their first five albums then I agree with you. No one has done what they have.
That also makes me correct in saying they were the greatest for a period. If you want to base it on an entire history or catalog
then I would say maybe Pantera. They put out some pretty heavy shit that might equal what Metallica did. My top answer
for overall consistancy and longevity would be Megadeth. They (in my opinion) have yet to release an album that is utter crap.
You even stated they were better than Metallica on the Big Four so that tells me they still have it. I'm going to see them next
month and I can't wait. Lastly, "Any" metal band putting out good albums is better than current Metallica.
I'm not bashing Metallica. Up to a certain point I thought they were great and like you state maybe the best "American" metal
band out there. All I'm saying is that they're not so great anymore.
[Head banger] Wednesday, June 29, 2011 11:06:03 PM
and thats the rub. metalica for one decade beats out all other metal acts. who is overall beter and contributed more to metal. at some point that has to include popularity, and from metalica where do you go next? in US metal probably motley crue. realy? crue? but overall, I know they are hair metal, but leave metalica out and they would have to be the best. megadeath is heavier, but they are not and never have managed to be a headline act. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Wednesday, June 29, 2011 8:13:23 PM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Sorry. I don't seem to recall anyone complaining about old Metallica.
Look at your calendar (while you decide if you have "a nut" or not) and I hope you notice that this was almost 30 YEARS ago now! FFS! Metallica of new is like Maiden of new. Both are pure jokes.
Sadly, though, I can't come up with any American band that did have more influence on metal. "DID" being the key word.
Sorry. I don't seem to recall anyone complaining about old Metallica.
Look at your calendar (while you decide if you have "a nut" or not) and I hope you notice that this was almost 30 YEARS ago now! FFS! Metallica of new is like Maiden of new. Both are pure jokes.
Sadly, though, I can't come up with any American band that did have more influence on metal. "DID" being the key word.
Ok, who are the greatest American metal band ever then? (Don't say Mushroomhead either).
Budred wrote:
I think after the "Black" album they did get a little lazy. There at least didn't seem to be much of an effort to put out
heavy metal records anymore. The "Load" album proved that with garbage like "King Nothing" and "Hero of the Day"
and a number of other shit songs on that one. "Re-Load" was a little better but still not up to par with their early material.
I think these two albums started their slide towards suckdom. Then too much experimentation killed them. They were the
greatest "American" metal band for a period. From "Load" on, not even close.
jimmyjames wrote:
One of the best metal bands there has ever been. Definately the best American metal band ever. The Black album wasn't sellout and it definately wasn't lazy, they worked hard on that and got a huge sound happening. It's success was based on being the culmination of 10 years hard graft. They had been building momentum all that time. Justice had sold something like two million copies so by the time Black was released metal was being accepted in the mainstream. Black just hit at the right time and took Metallica over the top. After that they just wanted to take it in a different direction and it didn't really work. Load and Reload are fucking great American heavy rock albums though, there's some killer stuff on both of those. The Symphony thing is a bunch of pretentious shit but it's not a sellout, it's actually a risk, again to do something different. St. Anger is an abortion. Probably the worst album by a major act ever. Just crap, and if you watch the Some Kind Of Monster dvd you can see why. Egos and money and fuckwits like Bob Rock and that shrink thinking they were actually in the band was hideous. The whole album was a trainwreck and an embarrassment. Death Magnetic I think is pretty shit as well. They are trying to get their oold heavy sound back but at the same time they are trying to "out heavy" bands like Machine Head and it's not gonna happen. What they need to do is go back to listening to the old British metal albums of the 80s like Maiden and Diamond Head and Venom and Motorhead that they used to listen to and just speed that stuff up. That's what they did best and that's what the sound they are trying to recapture was.
[Head banger] Wednesday, June 29, 2011 7:22:56 AM
consistancy is fine but there is no briliance in pantera. they are adequate. maybe. I dunno, megadeth is good, some briliance and way more consistant overall, but they (or dave) never hit the highs that metalica did in the 80's.
today if metalica tix go on sale they sell out our largest arena day one
megadeth has never headlined that same arena. been opener or second on the bil a number of times but on a headlining tour they play a smaller arena. could be because metalica sold out, but the black album was 20 years ago, and since then they havent done anything that got airplay.
[Budred] Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:53:07 AM
If you want to base an opinion on their first five albums then I agree with you. No one has done what they have.
That also makes me correct in saying they were the greatest for a period. If you want to base it on an entire history or catalog
then I would say maybe Pantera. They put out some pretty heavy shit that might equal what Metallica did. My top answer
for overall consistancy and longevity would be Megadeth. They (in my opinion) have yet to release an album that is utter crap.
You even stated they were better than Metallica on the Big Four so that tells me they still have it. I'm going to see them next
month and I can't wait. Lastly, "Any" metal band putting out good albums is better than current Metallica.
I'm not bashing Metallica. Up to a certain point I thought they were great and like you state maybe the best "American" metal
band out there. All I'm saying is that they're not so great anymore.
[Budred] Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:53:06 AM
Sorry. I got trigger happy and hit post twice. Edited at: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:54:41 AM
[jimmyjames] Wednesday, June 29, 2011 12:30:31 AM
It won't result in a back and forth. I just can't think of any band from the States that has even come close to achieving what Metallica has. Granted, their stuff from Load onwards is not as good as the first five albums but what other band has released five albums as good as those in quality? [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by Budred from Tuesday, June 28, 2011 4:29:00 PM)
Budred wrote:
If I name a band it's basically opinion and I'm sure you'll disagree so to avoid the back and forth
I'm going to pass. Considering they haven't put out anything of relevance in 15 years I'm surprised
that you think they are so great.
jimmyjames wrote:
Ok, who are the greatest American metal band ever then? (Don't say Mushroomhead either).
Budred wrote:
I think after the "Black" album they did get a little lazy. There at least didn't seem to be much of an effort to put out
heavy metal records anymore. The "Load" album proved that with garbage like "King Nothing" and "Hero of the Day"
and a number of other shit songs on that one. "Re-Load" was a little better but still not up to par with their early material.
I think these two albums started their slide towards suckdom. Then too much experimentation killed them. They were the
greatest "American" metal band for a period. From "Load" on, not even close.
jimmyjames wrote:
One of the best metal bands there has ever been. Definately the best American metal band ever. The Black album wasn't sellout and it definately wasn't lazy, they worked hard on that and got a huge sound happening. It's success was based on being the culmination of 10 years hard graft. They had been building momentum all that time. Justice had sold something like two million copies so by the time Black was released metal was being accepted in the mainstream. Black just hit at the right time and took Metallica over the top. After that they just wanted to take it in a different direction and it didn't really work. Load and Reload are fucking great American heavy rock albums though, there's some killer stuff on both of those. The Symphony thing is a bunch of pretentious shit but it's not a sellout, it's actually a risk, again to do something different. St. Anger is an abortion. Probably the worst album by a major act ever. Just crap, and if you watch the Some Kind Of Monster dvd you can see why. Egos and money and fuckwits like Bob Rock and that shrink thinking they were actually in the band was hideous. The whole album was a trainwreck and an embarrassment. Death Magnetic I think is pretty shit as well. They are trying to get their oold heavy sound back but at the same time they are trying to "out heavy" bands like Machine Head and it's not gonna happen. What they need to do is go back to listening to the old British metal albums of the 80s like Maiden and Diamond Head and Venom and Motorhead that they used to listen to and just speed that stuff up. That's what they did best and that's what the sound they are trying to recapture was.
[Budred] Tuesday, June 28, 2011 4:29:00 PM
If I name a band it's basically opinion and I'm sure you'll disagree so to avoid the back and forth
I'm going to pass. Considering they haven't put out anything of relevance in 15 years I'm surprised
that you think they are so great. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by jimmyjames from Tuesday, June 28, 2011 4:31:49 AM)
jimmyjames wrote:
Ok, who are the greatest American metal band ever then? (Don't say Mushroomhead either).
Budred wrote:
I think after the "Black" album they did get a little lazy. There at least didn't seem to be much of an effort to put out
heavy metal records anymore. The "Load" album proved that with garbage like "King Nothing" and "Hero of the Day"
and a number of other shit songs on that one. "Re-Load" was a little better but still not up to par with their early material.
I think these two albums started their slide towards suckdom. Then too much experimentation killed them. They were the
greatest "American" metal band for a period. From "Load" on, not even close.
jimmyjames wrote:
One of the best metal bands there has ever been. Definately the best American metal band ever. The Black album wasn't sellout and it definately wasn't lazy, they worked hard on that and got a huge sound happening. It's success was based on being the culmination of 10 years hard graft. They had been building momentum all that time. Justice had sold something like two million copies so by the time Black was released metal was being accepted in the mainstream. Black just hit at the right time and took Metallica over the top. After that they just wanted to take it in a different direction and it didn't really work. Load and Reload are fucking great American heavy rock albums though, there's some killer stuff on both of those. The Symphony thing is a bunch of pretentious shit but it's not a sellout, it's actually a risk, again to do something different. St. Anger is an abortion. Probably the worst album by a major act ever. Just crap, and if you watch the Some Kind Of Monster dvd you can see why. Egos and money and fuckwits like Bob Rock and that shrink thinking they were actually in the band was hideous. The whole album was a trainwreck and an embarrassment. Death Magnetic I think is pretty shit as well. They are trying to get their oold heavy sound back but at the same time they are trying to "out heavy" bands like Machine Head and it's not gonna happen. What they need to do is go back to listening to the old British metal albums of the 80s like Maiden and Diamond Head and Venom and Motorhead that they used to listen to and just speed that stuff up. That's what they did best and that's what the sound they are trying to recapture was.
[jimmyjames] Tuesday, June 28, 2011 4:31:49 AM
Ok, who are the greatest American metal band ever then? (Don't say Mushroomhead either). [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by Budred from Monday, June 27, 2011 7:08:04 AM)
Budred wrote:
I think after the "Black" album they did get a little lazy. There at least didn't seem to be much of an effort to put out
heavy metal records anymore. The "Load" album proved that with garbage like "King Nothing" and "Hero of the Day"
and a number of other shit songs on that one. "Re-Load" was a little better but still not up to par with their early material.
I think these two albums started their slide towards suckdom. Then too much experimentation killed them. They were the
greatest "American" metal band for a period. From "Load" on, not even close.
jimmyjames wrote:
One of the best metal bands there has ever been. Definately the best American metal band ever. The Black album wasn't sellout and it definately wasn't lazy, they worked hard on that and got a huge sound happening. It's success was based on being the culmination of 10 years hard graft. They had been building momentum all that time. Justice had sold something like two million copies so by the time Black was released metal was being accepted in the mainstream. Black just hit at the right time and took Metallica over the top. After that they just wanted to take it in a different direction and it didn't really work. Load and Reload are fucking great American heavy rock albums though, there's some killer stuff on both of those. The Symphony thing is a bunch of pretentious shit but it's not a sellout, it's actually a risk, again to do something different. St. Anger is an abortion. Probably the worst album by a major act ever. Just crap, and if you watch the Some Kind Of Monster dvd you can see why. Egos and money and fuckwits like Bob Rock and that shrink thinking they were actually in the band was hideous. The whole album was a trainwreck and an embarrassment. Death Magnetic I think is pretty shit as well. They are trying to get their oold heavy sound back but at the same time they are trying to "out heavy" bands like Machine Head and it's not gonna happen. What they need to do is go back to listening to the old British metal albums of the 80s like Maiden and Diamond Head and Venom and Motorhead that they used to listen to and just speed that stuff up. That's what they did best and that's what the sound they are trying to recapture was.
[.] Monday, June 27, 2011 1:47:31 PM
Metallica is still a great metal band.
They toured the world extensively at the time of the Black Album and finally did shows in countries where they should have gone to 10 years before. People still love them and they put on a great show.
I don't think they are sell outs. I think that they probably got burned out of touring so heavily at some point after the B.A. The fact that they have taken a certain stand against copying and such didn't go so well with me either, considering that free copying of their material was what got them their fan base to begin with. With the new internet era, it's time to adapt.
Musically, I think they need to have a fire lit under their ass and speed up their rhythm if they want to get at the heart of their beginnings. That Danish muffin needs to see a lot of Tommy Aldridge and finally learn how it's done.
I think after the "Black" album they did get a little lazy. There at least didn't seem to be much of an effort to put out
heavy metal records anymore. The "Load" album proved that with garbage like "King Nothing" and "Hero of the Day"
and a number of other shit songs on that one. "Re-Load" was a little better but still not up to par with their early material.
I think these two albums started their slide towards suckdom. Then too much experimentation killed them. They were the
greatest "American" metal band for a period. From "Load" on, not even close. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by jimmyjames from Sunday, June 26, 2011 6:10:06 AM)
jimmyjames wrote:
One of the best metal bands there has ever been. Definately the best American metal band ever. The Black album wasn't sellout and it definately wasn't lazy, they worked hard on that and got a huge sound happening. It's success was based on being the culmination of 10 years hard graft. They had been building momentum all that time. Justice had sold something like two million copies so by the time Black was released metal was being accepted in the mainstream. Black just hit at the right time and took Metallica over the top. After that they just wanted to take it in a different direction and it didn't really work. Load and Reload are fucking great American heavy rock albums though, there's some killer stuff on both of those. The Symphony thing is a bunch of pretentious shit but it's not a sellout, it's actually a risk, again to do something different. St. Anger is an abortion. Probably the worst album by a major act ever. Just crap, and if you watch the Some Kind Of Monster dvd you can see why. Egos and money and fuckwits like Bob Rock and that shrink thinking they were actually in the band was hideous. The whole album was a trainwreck and an embarrassment. Death Magnetic I think is pretty shit as well. They are trying to get their oold heavy sound back but at the same time they are trying to "out heavy" bands like Machine Head and it's not gonna happen. What they need to do is go back to listening to the old British metal albums of the 80s like Maiden and Diamond Head and Venom and Motorhead that they used to listen to and just speed that stuff up. That's what they did best and that's what the sound they are trying to recapture was.
[Becks] Monday, June 27, 2011 1:49:10 AM
I agree with pretty much all of this JJ. The Black Album is actually a cool album, it came out at exactly the right time as you say. St Anger is a pile of dog turd, the tinny sounding drums and everything make it pretty forgettable and I think the band would rather forget it LOL! Death Magnetic I also found blegh, too pretentious for me, I got very bored listening to another massive instrumental. They definitely tried getting back to their 'roots', and props for trying, but shit they can do better than that I reckon.
One of the best metal bands there has ever been. Definately the best American metal band ever. The Black album wasn't sellout and it definately wasn't lazy, they worked hard on that and got a huge sound happening. It's success was based on being the culmination of 10 years hard graft. They had been building momentum all that time. Justice had sold something like two million copies so by the time Black was released metal was being accepted in the mainstream. Black just hit at the right time and took Metallica over the top. After that they just wanted to take it in a different direction and it didn't really work. Load and Reload are fucking great American heavy rock albums though, there's some killer stuff on both of those. The Symphony thing is a bunch of pretentious shit but it's not a sellout, it's actually a risk, again to do something different. St. Anger is an abortion. Probably the worst album by a major act ever. Just crap, and if you watch the Some Kind Of Monster dvd you can see why. Egos and money and fuckwits like Bob Rock and that shrink thinking they were actually in the band was hideous. The whole album was a trainwreck and an embarrassment. Death Magnetic I think is pretty shit as well. They are trying to get their oold heavy sound back but at the same time they are trying to "out heavy" bands like Machine Head and it's not gonna happen. What they need to do is go back to listening to the old British metal albums of the 80s like Maiden and Diamond Head and Venom and Motorhead that they used to listen to and just speed that stuff up. That's what they did best and that's what the sound they are trying to recapture was.
[jimmyjames] Sunday, June 26, 2011 6:10:06 AM
One of the best metal bands there has ever been. Definately the best American metal band ever. The Black album wasn't sellout and it definately wasn't lazy, they worked hard on that and got a huge sound happening. It's success was based on being the culmination of 10 years hard graft. They had been building momentum all that time. Justice had sold something like two million copies so by the time Black was released metal was being accepted in the mainstream. Black just hit at the right time and took Metallica over the top. After that they just wanted to take it in a different direction and it didn't really work. Load and Reload are fucking great American heavy rock albums though, there's some killer stuff on both of those. The Symphony thing is a bunch of pretentious shit but it's not a sellout, it's actually a risk, again to do something different. St. Anger is an abortion. Probably the worst album by a major act ever. Just crap, and if you watch the Some Kind Of Monster dvd you can see why. Egos and money and fuckwits like Bob Rock and that shrink thinking they were actually in the band was hideous. The whole album was a trainwreck and an embarrassment. Death Magnetic I think is pretty shit as well. They are trying to get their oold heavy sound back but at the same time they are trying to "out heavy" bands like Machine Head and it's not gonna happen. What they need to do is go back to listening to the old British metal albums of the 80s like Maiden and Diamond Head and Venom and Motorhead that they used to listen to and just speed that stuff up. That's what they did best and that's what the sound they are trying to recapture was.
[Budred] Friday, June 24, 2011 7:11:44 PM
Everyone has an opinion as to what makes a "sell-out".
To me it's making an album set to someone else's standards for greater record sales.
I'm not convinced Metallica did that I just think a little fame, a little laziness, and a desire
to experiment changed their sound. I like the "Black" album, it was the "Load" album they
never recovered from. Then they "Re-Loaded" which had some good songs but still had a
lot of crap on it. Then the Symphony thing. WTF was that? They heavied it back up with
"St. Anger" but that god awful hollowed out sound ruined it. I think that was too much for
their fans. Death Magnetic isn't bad but who's listening? Now listen to the "Big Four" DVD
and you'll hear that now they aren't capable of performing especially James. I've seen
Metallica 10 times but I never will again. I bought everyone of their albums but I'll never buy
another one. (Actually, I stole "Death Magnetic". ) Anyway, their time has passed.
Opinion of Budred,
it only matters to Budred. (LOL)
[kman1759] Friday, June 24, 2011 9:02:29 AM
In my opinion, Metallica did change their sound with The Black Album. Whether you call this selling out or not, this was a very important moment in their career, making them what I think is mainstream metal. Now if people listen to Metallica, who is more mainstream, they may move on to other metal since they like Metallica. Having a mainstream metal band to introduce people to metal is important. But even if the Black Album was a sell-out, they don't really sell out anymore. St. Anger is hardly a sell out album, even their newest album is not.
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Mushroomhead 
...rocks!!!
