I AGREE WITH YOU STRAT ON THE NEW CAR. I THINK IT IS THE BIGGEST WASTE OF MONEY. ESPECIALLY IN THE CITY.  I PURCHASED MY CAR TWO YEARS OLD FOR $7,000 LESS THAT A NEW MODEL. INSURANCE WAS MUCH CHEAPER. PAID IT OFF IN 2 YEARS AND KEPT IT FOR 8 MORE YEARS WITHOUT ANY PAYMENTS. JUST ROUTINE MAINTENANCE.  WHEN THE MAINTENANCE BEGAN TO COME MORE FREQUENTLY IT WAS TIME TO MOVE ON. I NOW HAVE MY "NEW" CAR FOR 6 YEARS AND HAVEN'T HAD A PAYMENT IN 4 YEARS.
AT APPROXIMATELY $300 A MONTH THATS $3,600 LESS EXPENSE A YEAR.

		_strat_ wrote:
		Well, how uneducated can you get? I mean, you do have compulsory education up to the age of 15, do you? We have it, and I remember learning about %s and how to calculate with them when I wasnt much more than ten. And, frankly, thats all you really need to figure out interests. Yup. Changes. And adapting. And tightening the belt a bit. Some people seem to think that a new car every 3 years is their god-given right. That its their god given right to go to a supermarket, fill up a trolley, pay with a credit card and thats it. We will see - we are burning off reserves, reccesion is at the doorstep. We will see how that kind of people will fare in it.      Deep Freeze wrote: HA!!!!!!!!!!! You'd be surprised, strat. You really would. People are just stupid, by and large. Well, uneducated I guess is a better term. It is really an economic decision, just as with anything else financial. This country is in a terrible recession. People are losing money like crazy. There are times when a poor (Bear) market require changes in how one uses one's money. Really the only people making money in stocks and such are a few Day Traders and Commodities folks. You must adapt. I have ALL our money in Money Market accounts and CDs right now. Safest place to be. NOT a huge payback but safe. You have to THINK in times such as these. Greed can cause terrible mistakes.      _strat_ wrote: I already do. Thats something you take into consideration when you buy it. You dont buy a car (or anything that costs like a car) like you buy a loaf of bread. IDK whats complicated about that.      Deep Freeze wrote: HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I suppose it was, strat!!  As for cars, they do tell you a price here but it is NOT the TOTAL COST! Total cost is car price plus all those interest payments you make over the years. You will know what I mean someday, man. Happens all the time here in the US. If people actually knew what the total cost of things were, they would scream. You buy a 15K car and pay 60 payments of $350 a month. (Do the math!)      _strat_ wrote: They dont tell you the full price? IDK... There must be some kind of a law against that... But in any case, I never bought anything so big I would have to pay it in rates, but I know that everytime we talk about stuff like cars, appartments, ect. we always speak in full prices. Not "I got this car for ten payments of 300€". 3000€, and thats it. Come to think of it, its a good habbit.  It was really funny before we had euros, when stuff like cars and appartments would cost millions of Slo. Tolars... The good old days - when we were all millionares.      Deep Freeze wrote: Very wise, my friend. You know, so many people think they understand interest but do not. When people  in this country buy a house, they are always worried about "rate"....RATE RATE RATE. Amazing. Rate is merely a payment amount!  Seriously. What they need to be concerned with is total cost, just as you mentioned. What will it cost me in full? If you go to buy a car, try asking the sales guy what the price of the car is, IN FULL. All they do is sell you a payment. They do not want you to know what the total cost is!! THAT is how interest really works.      _strat_ wrote: Yup. And I usualy get a percent or two of discount if I pay in cash. Just for the big stuff, tho, like when I bought the guitar amp.  Frankly, I know what is a "limit" and I get "interest", but... I just choose the simplest way. I know how much I have = I know how much I can spend. Not the stuff when "I have 500€, but I can spend 700, and pay the difference later". Just complications. Expensive ones too.      Deep Freeze wrote: That's a great point strat. Knowing what you are spending. People use credit, pay the monthly payments and get buried by interest. Worse yet, MOST people do NOT truly understand interest and that is a HUGE problem.      _strat_ wrote: I dont use any money-related cards either. No credit cards, and even tho I have my bank card (or whatever its called - the one you stick in the ATM machine), I dont pay with it either. My reason is just that... I like cash. Really, with cards I never have a feeling on how much Im spending that I have with coins and banknotes.      Deep Freeze wrote: 'Morning, gents. Interesting conversation. I do not use credit cards, either. As a matter of fact, I am constantly crusading against them. In this country, credit is the number one obstacle towards wealth. You simply cannnot build true wealth when you are in debt. Working for a bank, I have seen some horrible mistakes with credit.  I have a car payment but only because I did not want to spend all the cash at once. Same with the house. But I do not carry even ONE credit card and neither does the Princess. We use debit or pay cash. Period.