Well, rights and wrongs... Sooner or later, for better or for worse, those "flowery rights and wrongs" will be all that matters, since people - stupid or smart, guilty or innocent - that have been tossed into poverty will have enough, and then you will have a social and a political crisis on top of the economic one. If you havent already - we do and we arent even officialy in a reccesion yet! And then we come to the plain and simple fact that this is not just a current crisis of the economy, but a crisis of the system, that will (hopefully) end the two decades of neo-liberal wet dreams.
Now, with banks, its obvious that we have two very different ways here - as I said, over here, youre NOT going to get a loan just by steping into a bank. You couldnt even before the crisis. That was the whole problem here for years (and its only worse now). People just couldnt get a loan, unless they could offer good guarantees that a loan can be repayed. The banks demanded guarantees in real estate, shares... anything that can be bought and sold. When I read from you, about how Americans could take loans where payments exceeded their wages by two times or more, I could hardly believe it. And I agree on that much at least, that in your case, much of the blame is on the people who took those loans. Although, I can still hardly believe that there would be so many such morons to start a crisis like we have now.
And in the end... Banks hold the money. Banks, private or state owned, have a lot of responsibility for the wealth of the society. How come they couldnt predict what would happen if they continue with the policy they had? With all the experts they have? They do have a lot of blame. Because, in the end, it remains that most of the wealth is held by a very small minority of people. Be it in my country, your country, or globaly. And they hold the greatest amount of responsibility for this crisis.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Monday, March 23, 2009 2:11:51 PM)| |  | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Exactly, HB!
Strat my friend, this is NOT a debate over the "oh so flowery rights and wrongs" of proper lending or borrowing. This is a stark reality, man. You should NEVER sign ANYTHING which you do not understand. Moreover, I do not care if "god" himself tells you that you can "afford it", any rational, thinking human being can see that income is "x" and outgo is "y". There is no other formula to justify it.
YES! Banks expect you to repay,usually. In the case of our current "crisis", it was not an important part of the lending process because loans were put into 'pools' that were sold as "Mortgage Backed Securities" on Wall Street. Banks were not expecting to actually collect the debt as they would in a normal mortgage loan. So, you see this is NOT a simple "percentage" or loan repayment or any of that. As I mentioned way back in our previous discussion on loans and interest, it is FAR more complicated than that. I could explain it but it would be a FAR BIGGER post than even this one is and it will make NO sense to you. (You are welcome to PM me if you would like a more detailed lesson)
There is plenty of blame to go around but very little responsibility. I am just sick of the banks getting hammered in the media as some evil, demonic force that have possessed otherwise good and decent people and ruined their lives. BAH!! Stupid people should NOT own homes. They are better off renting and being told what to do.
| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Going postal? What am I supposed to deliver? Or is it just some weird phrase?
Ok... Loans... I guess the question here is, do your banks even know who theyre lending the money to? Im pretty damn sure that I couldnt get a loan for a home with my wage - because the bank will make damn sure that they get their money back, no matter what, and they will confiscate my underwear if they have to. If you want to take a loan here, you have to have the means to repay it - pure and simple.
And, I guess its true, there are stupid people that will take those loans (if they can get them, that is). But... Its a crisis. What if someone gets laid off, and cannot pay the loan that he/she was perfectly able to manage a year ago? What if that happens purely because of an idiotic CEO in his office in Paris that says "Oh, well, we will just close down that factory in Eastern Europe... Fuck them."?
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | You know, maybe I should put this in the Pissed Off Thread but last night, the Princess and I were watching Dateline NBC and they were doing a report on the "mortgage crisis". Now, before strat goes postal on me just let me say that it truly IS a situation caused by greed and corruption. I get that. Being in the business for twenty years, I saw my fair share of "questionable" loans. OK, now that I have prefaced my comments....:
WHAT????!!!!!!!!!!! I sat here ready to friggin PUKE when I heard these morons talking on camera. There were THREE 'borrowers' that were interviewed and guess what they ALL had in common?? ALL three signed for a loan they could not afford ! Worse yet, they continue (probably for litigation reasons) to insist they had no fault!!! WHAT??!?!!??!?! Oh man. I nearly had a stroke!!!!! What the fu#@????????Look, I know there are bad people in businesses. People that would do things to make a buck regardless of right or wrong. I understand. What irritates me is these borrowers claiming they "did not know" that they could not afford a half-million dollar home on a $1600 a month salary! Or, they claim they believed it because the "lender said they could".. WHATEVER! This is FOURTH GRADE friggin math, people!!!! You make $1600 and the mortgage payment is $3000...um, it DOES NOT WORK. You cannot blame that on anyone but yourself !!!!!!!There was even one lady that bought like THREE properties and her income taxes showed she was LOSING money in her business every year!! (Her quote; 'Oh! Those are MY taxes??) Yet she went ahead and signed papers for millions of dollars in loans and now claims it is NOT her fault!!!!!!!!!! Riiiiiiight....... Disgusting.
Like I said, I get that the banks have some responsibility here. No doubt. But these losers that claim they have NO fault at all make me sick!!!!!!!!!!!! Stupid people should NOT buy homes! I am SO sick of people blaming business for all there idiocy!
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:11:57 AM
Edited at: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:18:22 AM |
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