A kid can understand if you explain it this. A PET CAN´T
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:36:53 PM)| |  | . wrote: | | Haven't you taken a kid to the doctor and the kid just be a miserable little weasel?
Same thing with spoiled pets. Take any human out of their comfort zone and they'll kick and scream like they're being hurt.
Birds build very complicated nests out of materials they pick. Muddobbers do too. Otters use rocks to bash oysters. Monkeys at a zoo actually pick human hairs and use them as dental floss! So they too create change in their environment by the way of tools. It's the mere level of change we create that differentiates us from them. This is a much more science-driven approach than the previous more mythological arguments.
| | | thekissofjudas wrote: | | Animals do not know what is evil, something human. A concept. An animal can discuss like we are doing about something abstract. That is all.They cannot analyze and discuss. They react.
Take your pet to the vet. The pet see the vet as someone who can hurt it ( evil) and try to avoid him. But the vet want to help it.
Evil is a concept. Concept is a fruit of a brain, an human brain. That is all
| | | . wrote: | | Both New and Old Testaments can and will be turned into whatever it is someone wants to turn them into, so yes, it's a very circular discussion, this Good/Evil discussion. It's also very easy to have such conversations degenerate rather quickly, thekissofjudas ;-)
The arrow of time points one way only and entropy goes along with it.
But I have to say that animals understand Evil very well. Better than humans, in fact. It's true that dogs and other animals can sense a threat from specific people who, to us, don't seem to be doing anything wrong.
(Quoting Message by thekissofjudas from Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:04:07 PM)
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thekissofjudas wrote: |
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We create culture and its meaning, not only objects. We cannot live without objects, like animals. They are part of our enviroment. How much you attach to the object and their symbolic meaning, power, money, etc is the problem.
Evil is what divide, destroy, pervert. Animal dont have a brain to understand that.
They cannot evaluate relations like us, they are not mother and father, cousin, boss and the like.
Evil make us see we have to anything to survive and enjoy, without feeling nothing for the rest. Evil is selfishness to the ultimate consequences. Stupids are those who think there is someone interested on buying soul, lol.
Well, meanings are dead with who have written? No. The new testament is not so fresh, the texts are related to a civilzition that is dead, too.
Genesis told the world of other times, but told the world of man's psychis. Knwoledgement equals death, end of innocent, lack of protection from the leader of the tribe.
It is enough for me. Devil and its troupe are just a bunch of nightmare for ignorants.
Good and evil too much to discuss in metal band fourm.
I love Judas Priest.
They are great musicians, relevant musicians.
Philosophy is other thing.
(Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:48:20 PM)
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. wrote: |
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What is Evil to you?
What harms you and hurts you.
What is Good to you?
What protects and loves you.
Humans react just the same as animals. We just communicate differently. Our upbringing and faith in making all of these objects we are surrounded by makes us foolishly think we're better.
As we depend on objects for our very own survival when animals just rely on their physical and social skills, it makes me think we actually are devolving instead of evolving.
I don't think that in reading the Genesis you will uncover anything. The Bible is but a mere picking of writings, some like the Genesis, created centuries or a couple of millenia before. They were relevant in their time, for their very limited and specific audience. The Old Testament was to be read in an environment such as a synagogue and by people who could understand what was really being meant, and mainly, a male audience (I don't think women were allowed to learn how to read and write).
Genesis can be analized to death and you can reach any conclusion you want because the real meanings have died along with the people who wrote it. The New Testament is far more relevant, IMO.
(Quoting Message by thekissofjudas from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:25:27 PM)
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thekissofjudas wrote: |
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i think that the point is that you mentioned Discovery channerl and other USA channel that manipulate the scientific knowledgement and blurred the reality:
feelings like anger, fear, etc are no thought neither reason. They react, and is their right, they need to survive. We have a brain that has evolutioned, thanks to a God/ Nature maybe, but we are animals, with intelligence and intellegence discovers the evil. That is the nature of the sin, read the Genesis. It is quite simple to understand, we know evil now.
(Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:17:08 PM)
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. wrote: |
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I agree with you, the occultism doesn't really interest me for the simple fact that it's just a bunch of excuses for whatever (birds of a feather)...but since it captivates the imagination of people and tends to play with their beliefs and ingrained prejudices, I guess it has some glamor to it....therefore so many metal bands use these outdated bronze age symbolisms on their covers.
Animals have feelings. They feel jealous, they trick you, they are happy and sad. It's that we, as humans, are losing our empathy with the natural world. Unless you handle animals on a daily basis, like on a farm, you really would think that they just act and have none of those traits we consider human.
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thekissofjudas wrote: |
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Nature may be considered good for itself, for being the ultimate source of live, then man and woman see GOOD... Moral is attained to man. Nature is life and death, nature is considered the ruler and source of all. Evil is only human,evil is something born from withit the human soul, betrayal, greed, envy...animals have those feeling? Absurd... where is the evil in Nature? Only man tagged animal behave as good and evil and it is totally absurd. Animal dont understand, think and choose, they only act.. I know about the svastika and the fork. I know many things of the ocultism, that is the reason I am not interested in it any more ;) just be human
(Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:00:12 PM)
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. wrote: |
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And what if nature is evil too?
You say God is Nature and immediately state it's inherently Good, and that the Devil is Evil. But there is plenty of "evil" in nature.
If you ever watched Discovery or National Geographic, you can see there is plenty of horror in nature and if Humans are to do some of the same things that animals do then Humans are "doing the Devil's work": raping their underlings and their young, killing them, killing others, and using their bodily fluids to mark territory. Animals also kill for the thrill, not just to eat. Animals, such as rats and rabbits, are always sexually aroused and will multiply fast and they don't care if they are humping their own kin. Wasps can implant eggs on worms and when they hatch they eat their host alive.
Yet, rabbits are the Eastern European (pagan) symbol for Easter.
If anyone pays attention to symbols, what is the pitchfork supposed to mean anyway? Or the swastika? EVIL?
Yet, both are ultimate symbols of GOOD in Asian cultures. Shiva holds a pitchfork.
There is more to talking about religion than what the tv indoctrinates you with, even if I used television channels as an example.
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thekissofjudas wrote: |
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Well, people, humanity lost many energies and lives fighting during thousands of years for religious and political causes, that are the same. Stop this stupity, if you want peace, justice and a world where every child can grow with dignity, stop the evil inside your heart. A God who punishes, a devil who deceives, people who sold their soul to something ureal...a lot of rubbish.
One priest told my mother that God does not send anybody to hell, God loves all people, forgives every error...that priest was removed from our church. And that idea stuck to me.
If there a God, he/she has to be tolerant enough to understand us all, we are creation of that Being. Devil is just a figure to design evil, as God is another to design the nature.
I believe in that God I mentioned, but think that most religious, satanism itself, intoxicated and divided innocent people. Metal uses symbols and are symbols that shock mediocre people. Stop ocultism and all those idiocy, I have studied that, and found a lot of old supertision. Be aware, we have to be aware that only man and woman can be God here to change the world. WAR, HUNGER, CONTAMINATION ARE FAR MORE IMPORTANT that the ignorant who rants about Priest.
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