On occasion we do things that contradict our principles and beliefs, so we need to forgive ourselves and others a little more, not as a religious command, but as a way to go through life without tearing our hair out in desperation and crawling around others seeking easy laughs or inventing revenge. Can’t be forgiving all the time, can’t turn the other cheek all the time but you can’t let the negative outweigh what is positive, which is a lot.

I tend to believe that a normal person who feels strongly enough to follow his/hers religious beliefs in practice, most of the time, keeps strong social ties and feels  more strongly the responsibility to society – hardly the weak minded individual that is usually portrayed.  Hospitals and international aid organizations are securely rooted in religious beliefs, and they were kick started by religious organizations, but they’re hardly thumping their bibles at those whom they are assisting. They’re far too busy for that, I assume. They’re not weak and definitely not stupid.

In this day and age, I think it requires more courage because of the instant labeling of bigot, pedophile, church rat, etc.  That’s just on the Catholic side of things.

I used to think how corny, bigoted and antiquated it was to witness church processions in little villages out in the country. It’s because I was not aware of just how deeply the procession served to unite the locals, to have fun and party, and how it served the purpose of reaffirming their cultural identity in the process. Now I see a 500 year-old statue of a Virgin or a Jesus - and it is part of a heritage, it’s not just a statue to pray to, it’s not simply an idol to worship and it’s not an antique at a museum, removed from the human context that created it. Realization of the fact doesn’t make me want to get down on my knees and pray, but rather, to respect and admire it.

Deep Freeze, I don’t understand this targeting of Jesus all the time, especially when he had good things to say and abided by his principles to a fault. Obviously in his day, his actions resonated strongly enough for people all over the Roman Empire to listen and convert to his teachings and those of his immediate followers (the Bible has no direct writings from Jesus) - despite extreme hardship. What’s fair is fair and let’s give credit where it’s due.

We don’t make ourselves; we are a product of our society and society is ruled by principles rooted in the belief of the Supernatural. How Good or Evil we become depends on how we are treated by others and, witnessing the actions of those around us, we set our own course of action by the values of the society we live in.

On occasion we do things that contradict our principles and beliefs, so we need to forgive ourselves and others a little more, not as a religious command, but as a way to go through life without tearing our hair out in desperation and crawling around others seeking easy laughs or inventing revenge. Can’t be forgiving all the time, can’t turn the other cheek all the time but you can’t let the negative outweigh what is positive, which is a lot.

I tend to believe that a normal person who feels strongly enough to follow his/hers religious beliefs in practice, most of the time, keeps strong social ties and feels  more strongly the responsibility to society – hardly the weak minded individual that is usually portrayed.  Hospitals and international aid organizations are securely rooted in religious beliefs, and they were kick started by religious organizations, but they’re hardly thumping their bibles at those whom they are assisting. They’re far too busy for that, I assume. They’re not weak and definitely not stupid.

In this day and age, I think it requires more courage because of the instant labeling of bigot, pedophile, church rat, etc.  That’s just on the Catholic side of things.

I used to think how corny, bigoted and antiquated it was to witness church processions in little villages out in the country. It’s because I was not aware of just how deeply the procession served to unite the locals, to have fun and party, and how it served the purpose of reaffirming their cultural identity in the process. Now I see a 500 year-old statue of a Virgin or a Jesus - and it is part of a heritage, it’s not just a statue to pray to, it’s not simply an idol to worship and it’s not an antique at a museum, removed from the human context that created it. Realization of the fact doesn’t make me want to get down on my knees and pray, but rather, to respect and admire it.

Deep Freeze, I don’t understand this targeting of Jesus all the time, especially when he had good things to say and abided by his principles to a fault. Obviously in his day, his actions resonated strongly enough for people all over the Roman Empire to listen and convert to his teachings and those of his immediate followers (the Bible has no direct writings from Jesus) - despite extreme hardship. What’s fair is fair and let’s give credit where it’s due.

We don’t make ourselves; we are a product of our society and society is ruled by principles rooted in the belief of the Supernatural. How Good or Evil we become depends on how we are treated by others and, witnessing the actions of those around us, we set our own course of action by the values of the society we live in.

I do not have a copy of the Theory of Human Motivation so I cannot say what it is exactly you are reading but I would think the word is egotistical. Of course, Maslow was not an English master so , who knows?? In any case, you need not aplogize. You know how I am!! HA!!!!!!!!!!!

I get that you feel a sense of belonging when surrounded by those of your own. That would make sense. I believe there is something in Maslow's writing about social needs?  It would follow that you would feel that way. I guess what I am driving at is the whole "being great" thing that started this conversation. I am always perplexed by those that feel man, himself is incapable of being great and , therefore, it is the result of some deity or supernatural being dabbling in creation. I get this argument most often from the religious folks, which is why I prefaced my comments to Joe. I do not wish to offend.

You see, I believe that man is ALWAYS the master, even in his weakest and most abandonded state. But in a weakened or degraded state, he becomes the foolish master that mismanages his mind. When he begins to reflect upon his condition and search diligently for the Law upon which his being is established, he becomes the wise master and directs his energies with intelligence, fashioning his thought to fruitful issues. My dear, only by searching and mining are gold and diamonds obtained. 

Oh and guido......Moo.

   (Quoting Message by Bev from Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:57:19 AM)

		Bev wrote:
		The soup can wait - lol I'm sorry.  Did I use the term incorrectly?  In the hierarchy of needs one moves from a self-centered (egoic) focus to one of self-awareness ultimately leading to outward focus.  But I think I understand your point. I am of the thinking that I am a better, richer, individual when I am in the midst of caring, likeminded people - when we all connect, we are a stronger force.      Deep Freeze wrote:   Umm...egoic?? HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry, Bev. You know I cannot resist!!  Interesting thoughts, though. As a matter of physics, I suppose we ARE actually all "connected". Had not actually considered that angle. Also interesting that you would reference Maslow. Needs are basic in everyone, just at varying levels. I suppose becoming self-aware helps in that one will realize that there is more to one's life than self alone. For me, the whole thing boils down to mind and the power thereof. I mean, scientists are only beginning to explore the vast powers of the mind. They have only scratched the surface of what we are capable of doing with our minds. The fact is, there is tremendous power there. I have discussed this often.  Thought and character are one, and as character can only manifest itself through environment and circumstance, the outer conditions of a person's life can always be found to be harmoniously related to his INNER state. Now, this does not mean that a certain circumstance is an indication of entire character but, by and large, circumstance is intimately connected with some vital thought element within us. Basically, everyone is where he is by the law of his being.      Bev wrote:   I found a way to include the sacred cow in my prose; however, said cow will be cast aside as will the religious dogma to which some subsribe so vehemently! It is true, we are all connected, scientifically and spiritually.  There is no new matter.  There are only new combinations of the same matter from which the universe was created.  So logically we are connected, similar.  As spiritual beings we are also connected.  Life's journey involves moving through the stages of ego (think Maslow's Hierarchy) to a higher self-awareness.  Being the optimist I can be at times I tend to believe we go a little further. Once the ego is quelled we can then move toward those in our midst not unlike how we were living in an egoic state.  In that regard we very much connect to one another, and ultimately the life energy that sustains us. When we shut ourselves off from any interaction or closeness with another what then?

Ouch! Can you hear the clicks?

Have you considered visiting your neighbor and saying hi? Perhaps he'll let you get some cow chips because it's not a good idea to trespass on a countryman's property.

		guidogodoy wrote:
		You know, I have tried to get free cow chips but that damn little silver wire in between the bigger ones always seems to have some sort of static electricity whenever I try to climb through it! Sure catches the cow's attention when I shriek like a little girl and jump halfway across the street, though.      Where AmI wrote: Having lived literally across the street from a cattle feedlot, I have to say cows stink so bad - not as bad as pigs - but they stink so bad the stench gets under your skin and in your clothes and into your lungs.  On a day without wind going the opposite direction, or a day without wind period, the air is thick with the stench of cows. I love farm animals... Have you tried burning dry cow chips for fuel? They burn really well and they're environmentally friendly, and for you perhaps even free.... I understand the worship of an animal that has guaranteed the survival of mankind throughout the millenia. Fantastic creatures. Wish they were carnivores and ate people.      guidogodoy wrote: Alright. I am getting damn sick and tired of all of you who are badmouthing the cow. I live with across the street from them, they feed and give me something to keep my Mac & Cheese (spirals) from being lumpy. Spew whatever religious mumbo-jumbo you want but lay off my cows!

I do not have a copy of the Theory of Human Motivation so I cannot say what it is exactly you are reading but I would think the word is egotistical. Of course, Maslow was not an English master so , who knows?? In any case, you need not aplogize. You know how I am!! HA!!!!!!!!!!!

I get that you feel a sense of belonging when surrounded by those of your own. That would make sense. I believe there is something in Maslow's writing about social needs?  It would follow that you would feel that way. I guess what I am driving at is the whole "being great" thing that started this conversation. I am always perplexed by those that feel man, himself is incapable of being great and , therefore, it is the result of some deity or supernatural being dabbling in creation. I get this argument most often from the religious folks, which is why I prefaced my comments to Joe. I do not wish to offend.

You see, I believe that man is ALWAYS the master, even in his weakest and most abandonded state. But in a weakened or degraded state, he becomes the foolish master that mismanages his mind. When he begins to reflect upon his condition and search diligently for the Law upon which his being is established, he becomes the wise master and directs his energies with intelligence, fashioning his thought to fruitful issues. My dear, only by searching and mining are gold and diamonds obtained. 

Oh and guido......Moo.

   (Quoting Message by Bev from Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:57:19 AM)

		Bev wrote:
		The soup can wait - lol I'm sorry.  Did I use the term incorrectly?  In the hierarchy of needs one moves from a self-centered (egoic) focus to one of self-awareness ultimately leading to outward focus.  But I think I understand your point. I am of the thinking that I am a better, richer, individual when I am in the midst of caring, likeminded people - when we all connect, we are a stronger force.      Deep Freeze wrote:   Umm...egoic?? HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry, Bev. You know I cannot resist!!  Interesting thoughts, though. As a matter of physics, I suppose we ARE actually all "connected". Had not actually considered that angle. Also interesting that you would reference Maslow. Needs are basic in everyone, just at varying levels. I suppose becoming self-aware helps in that one will realize that there is more to one's life than self alone. For me, the whole thing boils down to mind and the power thereof. I mean, scientists are only beginning to explore the vast powers of the mind. They have only scratched the surface of what we are capable of doing with our minds. The fact is, there is tremendous power there. I have discussed this often.  Thought and character are one, and as character can only manifest itself through environment and circumstance, the outer conditions of a person's life can always be found to be harmoniously related to his INNER state. Now, this does not mean that a certain circumstance is an indication of entire character but, by and large, circumstance is intimately connected with some vital thought element within us. Basically, everyone is where he is by the law of his being.      Bev wrote:   I found a way to include the sacred cow in my prose; however, said cow will be cast aside as will the religious dogma to which some subsribe so vehemently! It is true, we are all connected, scientifically and spiritually.  There is no new matter.  There are only new combinations of the same matter from which the universe was created.  So logically we are connected, similar.  As spiritual beings we are also connected.  Life's journey involves moving through the stages of ego (think Maslow's Hierarchy) to a higher self-awareness.  Being the optimist I can be at times I tend to believe we go a little further. Once the ego is quelled we can then move toward those in our midst not unlike how we were living in an egoic state.  In that regard we very much connect to one another, and ultimately the life energy that sustains us. When we shut ourselves off from any interaction or closeness with another what then?

Wow, Joe! Nice thoughts. I think that , if we say that is the biggest mistake we make, then certainly the second biggest is our deference to a "higher" being or "creator" to describe our greatness of self. I mean, why is it that we cannot be great simply because we are? Why is it that we decide it simply CANNOT be us but HAS to be someone or something else??

One must discover the truth that they themselves are makers of themselves by virture of the thoughts that they choose and encourage; that MIND is the master weaver, both of inner garment of character and the outer garment of circumstance and that, as they may have woven earlier in ignorance and pain, they may now weave in enlightenment and happiness. As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he.
I think that one need only look to themselves to see that our GREATNESS is us..what we are within.

Wow, Joe! Nice thoughts. I think that , if we say that is the biggest mistake we make, then certainly the second biggest is our deference to a "higher" being or "creator" to describe our greatness of self. I mean, why is it that we cannot be great simply because we are? Why is it that we decide it simply CANNOT be us but HAS to be someone or something else??

One must discover the truth that they themselves are makers of themselves by virture of the thoughts that they choose and encourage; that MIND is the master weaver, both of inner garment of character and the outer garment of circumstance and that, as they may have woven earlier in ignorance and pain, they may now weave in enlightenment and happiness. As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he.
I think that one need only look to themselves to see that our GREATNESS is us..what we are within.