"Hell Bent For Leather", "Unleashed In The East", and "Painkiller" (remasters) from Judas Priest
...still waiting for "Staind Class"
...have to find "Sin After Sin". ...sucks the first two records weren't done.
I may pass on "British Steel" and "Screaming ..." because I already bought the re-releases. May pass on
"Live" because I don't like it. (I don't like Priest that polished up)
[Zomby] Sunday, January 06, 2013 12:16:30 PM
bloody hell
[Tania2194AD] Sunday, January 06, 2013 4:29:46 AM
British Steel Anniversary edition
(rare japanese edition)
box:
disc - 2cd (the 1st - songs from album,
the 2nd - concert+interview (making the BS));
stripe - JUDAS PRIEST;
poster - BS;
book - rock photos
[hellrider 31038] Wednesday, January 02, 2013 5:30:53 PM
NOTHING RECENTLY BUT I AM TRYING TO GET A FEW POWER FROM HELL CDS.I SAW
THEM ON THERE FACEBOOK PAGE.THE CDS ARE VERY DIFFICULT TO FIND.I AM JUST A NEW FAN OF
THERES THANKS TO YOUTUBE SO I ONLY HAVE A COUPLE OF THERE CDS.MY FAVORITE SO FAR OF THERES IS THE TRUE METAL CD. Edited at: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 5:45:28 PM
[Tania2194AD] Tuesday, January 01, 2013 1:04:58 AM
yeah this is very rock Priest song,like it either.
Respect bikers who chose the songs of JUDAS PRIEST!!!!!!! [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by zomby from Monday, December 31, 2012 4:42:23 PM)
zomby wrote:
the last priest album i got was point of entry i really like desert plains i mean being a biker these words sum it up for me the road is straightcast
winds in my eyes
the engine roars between my thighs
.............................................................................id luv to ride in the desert sum day
[Zomby] Monday, December 31, 2012 4:42:23 PM
the last priest album i got was point of entry i really like desert plains i mean being a biker these words sum it up for me the road is straightcast
winds in my eyes
the engine roars between my thighs
.............................................................................id luv to ride in the desert sum day
[Zomby] Monday, December 31, 2012 4:34:47 PM
ac/dc who made who
[Budred] Monday, December 31, 2012 3:24:50 PM
"Turbo" and "Ram It Down" remasters from Judas Priest!
@budred, i miss what could of been from damageplan, that this was their first album and IMO pretty darn good,
[acolyte55] Friday, December 28, 2012 4:50:32 PM
@budred, i miss what could of been from damageplan, that this was their first album and IMO pretty darn good,
[hellrider 31038] Thursday, December 27, 2012 5:57:56 PM
NO CDS.I LOOKED BUT DID NOT SEE ANYTHING EXCEPT FOR THE 2 MIGHTY PAAAAAAAAAINKILLLLLLLER CDS I LEFT THEM .GOT ENOUGH.I JUST GOT A BOOK INSTEAD.IT WAS ON THE WALL AND IN MY FACE
[Budred] Tuesday, December 25, 2012 3:39:59 AM
...good album.
I can't listen to it though. I used to love Pantera. I got to see them 9 times and I got too meet them. The only reason I bring that up is
because I actually felt like I knew those guys after meeting them. Dime and Vinny were so cool. They genuinely enjoyed being there
with fans taking pictures and giving autographs and answering questions. I asked Vinny to toss me a stick if he saw me during the show.
At the end he saw me and he threw me one. When I heard about what happened in Columbus it bothered me pretty bad. The (only)
time that I was truly saddened by a rockstar's death. This is why I can't listen to it. I actually get sad when I do. Whether anyone here
liked Dime or not he was real. Everything he said and did was from the heart. A class act!!! R.I.P. Dime. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by acolyte55 from Tuesday, December 18, 2012 2:59:53 PM)
acolyte55 wrote:
damageplan-new found power
[Budred] Tuesday, December 25, 2012 3:27:28 AM
"Defender's Of The Faith" and "Point Of Entry" remasters by JUDAS PRIEST
I was noticing that I don't listen to Priest much anymore and it seemed like the main reason was the disc quality compared to some
of the newer stuff out there. I bought the British Steel re-release and Screaming...30th ann. edition and love the way they sound. I figured
it was time to get the remasters. I would have done it years ago but i didn't realize the difference in sound quality was so great.
[acolyte55] Tuesday, December 18, 2012 2:59:53 PM
damageplan-new found power
[Tania2194AD] Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:14:14 AM
So nice, HALFORD LIVE IN LONDON,
this metal discs is great!!!
very like HALFORD [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by hellrider 31038 from Monday, December 17, 2012 9:51:03 PM)
hellrider 31038 wrote:
JUST PERCHASED 2 HALFORD LIVE IN LONDON CDS.
[hellrider 31038] Monday, December 17, 2012 9:51:03 PM
JUST PERCHASED 2 HALFORD LIVE IN LONDON CDS.
[hellrider 31038] Monday, December 17, 2012 6:12:44 PM
I THINK I JUST RECIEVED MY NEW SAINT CDS TONIGHT I SAID I ORDED A COUPLE WEEKS AGO.REASON WHY I SAID THINK IS BECAUSE I HAVE NOT OPENED UP THE
PACKAGE YET AND DONT REMEMBER EXPECTING ANYTHING ELSE.LOL
[Nupe The Ripper] Thursday, December 06, 2012 6:14:24 PM
Accept: Restless and Wild
Accept: Russian Roulette
Black Sabbath: Black Sabbath
Black Sabbath: Paranoid
Black Sabbath: Master of Reality
Black Sabbath: Vol. 4
KISS: KISS
KISS: Hotter Than Hell
KISS: Dressed to Kill
KISS: Destroyer
Quiet Riot: Metal Health
[hellrider 31038] Thursday, December 06, 2012 6:10:52 PM
THHHHHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYYY KIINNNNGGGGDOOMMMMMMMMM COOOMMEEEEEEEE
THHHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY WIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL BEEEEEEEEEEE DOOONNNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEE
ALLTHOUGH NOT QUICK VIDEO CAUSE WE WANT TO BE A QUALITY VIDEO THE CORRECT WORD IS SHORT VIDEO [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by hellrider 31038 from Tuesday, December 04, 2012 7:40:09 PM)
hellrider 31038 wrote:
YEAH MAAAANNNNN GET THE CD SO WE CAN FIRE UP THE FIST AND MAKE THE QUICK VIDEO
INNNNNNNNNTTTTTTTEEEENNNNNNNNNNSSSSSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEE (Quoting Message by hellrider 31038 from Tuesday, December 04, 2012 5:33:04 PM)
hellrider 31038 wrote:
THE ABSOLUTLY LAST ONE I BOUGHT LAST NIGHT IS PREYER TERMINATOR.I JUST BOUGHT IT ON EBAY THEY ARE SOLD OUT ON THE SITE AND I AM ANXIOUS TO RECIEVE IT.I WILL BUY ANOTHER 1 OR 2 COPIES WHEN THEY GET THEM IN STOCK AND I THINK I HEARD THE BAND SIGNS THEM TOTALLY COOL OR WHAT
Edited at: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 7:57:26 PM
[hellrider 31038] Tuesday, December 04, 2012 7:40:09 PM
YEAH MAAAANNNNN GET THE CD SO WE CAN FIRE UP THE FIST AND MAKE THE QUICK VIDEO
INNNNNNNNNTTTTTTTEEEENNNNNNNNNNSSSSSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEE [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by hellrider 31038 from Tuesday, December 04, 2012 5:33:04 PM)
hellrider 31038 wrote:
THE ABSOLUTLY LAST ONE I BOUGHT LAST NIGHT IS PREYER TERMINATOR.I JUST BOUGHT IT ON EBAY THEY ARE SOLD OUT ON THE SITE AND I AM ANXIOUS TO RECIEVE IT.I WILL BUY ANOTHER 1 OR 2 COPIES WHEN THEY GET THEM IN STOCK AND I THINK I HEARD THE BAND SIGNS THEM TOTALLY COOL OR WHAT
Edited at: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 7:57:26 PM
[hellrider 31038] Tuesday, December 04, 2012 5:33:04 PM
THE ABSOLUTLY LAST ONE I BOUGHT LAST NIGHT IS PREYER TERMINATOR.I JUST BOUGHT IT ON EBAY THEY ARE SOLD OUT ON THE SITE AND I AM ANXIOUS TO RECIEVE IT.I WILL BUY ANOTHER 1 OR 2 COPIES WHEN THEY GET THEM IN STOCK AND I THINK I HEARD THE BAND SIGNS THEM TOTALLY COOL OR WHAT
[tardisgirl70] Tuesday, December 04, 2012 3:58:06 PM
Accept - Blood of the Nations (Teutonic Horror being my favourite on there)
Krokus - One Vice at a Time
[hellrider 31038] Friday, November 23, 2012 6:15:30 PM
YEAH I AM ANXIOUSE TO RECIVE IT. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by Brian_Evans from Thursday, November 22, 2012 11:46:16 PM)
Brian_Evans wrote:
Yeah man.... Striker! I really like that band...old school metal!
hellrider 31038 wrote:
JUST ORDERED TONIGHT STRIKER LP BLACK VINYL LEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTT ITTTTTTTTTTT BUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRNNNNNNN
BEEN SEEING THOUS FLAMETHROWERS IN MY MIND FOR WEEKS NOW.LOL
[Brian_Evans] Thursday, November 22, 2012 11:46:16 PM
Yeah man.... Striker! I really like that band...old school metal! [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by hellrider 31038 from Thursday, November 22, 2012 8:20:17 PM)
hellrider 31038 wrote:
JUST ORDERED TONIGHT STRIKER LP BLACK VINYL LEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTT ITTTTTTTTTTT BUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRNNNNNNN
BEEN SEEING THOUS FLAMETHROWERS IN MY MIND FOR WEEKS NOW.LOL
[hellrider 31038] Thursday, November 22, 2012 8:20:17 PM
JUST ORDERED TONIGHT STRIKER LP BLACK VINYL LEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTT ITTTTTTTTTTT BUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRNNNNNNN
BEEN SEEING THOUS FLAMETHROWERS IN MY MIND FOR WEEKS NOW.LOL
[Head banger] Thursday, November 22, 2012 7:16:52 PM
thanks. Ours was a few weeks ago, but right back atcha. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by DemonCat from Thursday, November 22, 2012 11:00:40 AM)
DemonCat wrote:
I agree no further discussion is neccesary. Lack of people posting also means fewer trolls. That's one positive of course. Perhaps now there are only the hard core JP fans contributing to the boards. That of course is the ultimate positive for this site. Stay well my friend. I know today isn't your holiday, if you still reside in Canada, but Happy Thanksgiving HB!
Head banger wrote:
I had forgotten that. but statisticly, I think I read that 61% of all internet traffic is pornography. so, while I was kidding, its a fact none the less that porn is the main driver of the net. from there..... lets not continue down that discussion.
and yep, place is different, lack of people is the difference.
DemonCat wrote:
You should already know I'd disagree w/that statement HB. What with all the stink I made in the past about the pics of nearly nude women posted on this site. It actually does feel very nice to be posting here again. I missed a lot of the people from here while I was absent. However, it doesn't feel the same as before. I'm not the same as before. I thought, maybe a little sarcasm from me would help me. So I gave it a try.
Head banger wrote:
isnt that what the internet is for (except the almost part?)
DemonCat wrote:
It's was worth saying to see what kind of response I'd get. To actually contribute in a conversation here again was nice. I believe I almost had an orgasm! (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 6:42:39 PM)
guidogodoy wrote:
No. Technically you are not the complete "owner" of it. You do not own the intellectual property rights nor copyright to it. You basically bought a license for private, personal use. It is not "yours" to give as a gift.
Nice theory, though. You best read up on RIAA law while you can. I don't think you'll be able to access a computer once they finish with you. www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php
DemonCat wrote:
My response to the anti-piracy warning issued by the FBI is this: I bought the cd, dvd etc. I'm the owner of it and all content on it. I therefore "authorize" myself to be able to share it with the world. I do so as a "gift". (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 12:03:48 AM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Ok, then. Despite the huge "FBI Anti-Piracy Warning: Unauthorized copying is punishible under federal law" that is stamped on the back of a cd by the Federal Bureau of Investigation / Department of Justice" you still think it is legal? Do you think the same of a DVD that you copy? How about a book? Would you lump them into the same category as a CD? Don't they, like the electric company, have fixed costs (machinery) plus static costs of distribution, artwork, etc., plus more dynamic costs such as Big Box store discounts, printing, etc.? While I am glad to hear that you paid for SFV, to be honest, your argument makes no sense to me.
Do you think that the production costs of making a DVD, video game, computer OS/software or music are so different? Sure, some cost more, some cost less. Moral is that they all COST. Would you steal a CD from a store? I hope not (at your age...we ignore what we did when we were younger...heh). What possible difference could you make between going into a store and stealing a CD vs. downloading an illegal copy? It is easier?! How about that DVD question. I have been in many a city were you can buy perfect pirate copies on the street. While I can buy it for pennies, is it right? Upstairs I have a couple of Rolex watches I bought in Brazil for about $10USD. Those are certainly fakes but it is a tangible good that someone (typically poor) took time to construct. I would never be able to afford (or want) a Rolex in any case. However, did I steal from Rolex because I bought a knock-off? No. I'd never EVER buy one. Downloading a CD, though, hits closer to home. Rolex won't go out of business because I bought a fake watch. A certain band might not be able to pay bills if their cds don't sell. Pay to support your favorite bands, is my point. The Justin B. / boyband machine will roll us otherwise.
Parting thought? When you "import" a store-bought CD to your harddrive using Media Player you are probably importing in WMV format. Lossy, IOW. No matter. If you legally own the recording, you are fine. The people who download without ever having once paid for the music are both engaging in illegal activities as well as damaging the genre of music we love. Low sales and those bands will go to no-name labels and then disappear. Bieber effect. Pop sells. Metal doesn't. (Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM)
Head banger wrote:
lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
guidogodoy wrote:
Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
Head banger wrote:
the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
guidogodoy wrote:
You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
Head banger wrote:
See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
guidogodoy wrote:
Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
Head banger wrote:
I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
guidogodoy wrote:
First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
Head banger wrote:
Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 12:06:35 AM
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:43:18 AM
Edited at: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:36:57 PM
[guidogodoy] Thursday, November 22, 2012 11:31:21 AM
The question about Ratt's "Invasion"? Nothing! It was an example of something great! I have it on cassette, LP and CD.
My point was that nothing matches the photo on the LP! Ex-playmate. She and the photo are stunning!!
What's the question about Ratt Invasion of Your Privacy? I own a legal copy of it on cd. It's great imo.
guidogodoy wrote:
Oh, thank goodness. Back on topic!!
Your review? Did you download it first? You know, I never said it but your comment about wanting the CD art is the same argument we LP-ers had about the smaller format. NOTHING like seeing the Iron Maiden (Powerslave? Seventh Son? Somewhere in Time?) in full glory. Outstanding artwork that, I feel, was sadly lost in the CD format. Forget about it with the digital download.
Ratt? "Invasion of Your Privacy" anyone? Just a photo but WOW! (Quoting Message by Vaillant 3.0 from Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:43:28 AM)
Vaillant 3.0 wrote:
Actually, I did! Just a couple of weeks ago.
Scorpions-Animal Magnetism
guidogodoy wrote:
I've seen pictures of you both. I prefer to block this image from my mind and get back on topic.
SO, who has bought any new CDs lately!
Head banger wrote:
isnt that what the internet is for (except the almost part?)
DemonCat wrote:
It's was worth saying to see what kind of response I'd get. To actually contribute in a conversation here again was nice. I believe I almost had an orgasm! (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 6:42:39 PM)
guidogodoy wrote:
No. Technically you are not the complete "owner" of it. You do not own the intellectual property rights nor copyright to it. You basically bought a license for private, personal use. It is not "yours" to give as a gift.
Nice theory, though. You best read up on RIAA law while you can. I don't think you'll be able to access a computer once they finish with you. www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php
DemonCat wrote:
My response to the anti-piracy warning issued by the FBI is this: I bought the cd, dvd etc. I'm the owner of it and all content on it. I therefore "authorize" myself to be able to share it with the world. I do so as a "gift". (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 12:03:48 AM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Ok, then. Despite the huge "FBI Anti-Piracy Warning: Unauthorized copying is punishible under federal law" that is stamped on the back of a cd by the Federal Bureau of Investigation / Department of Justice" you still think it is legal? Do you think the same of a DVD that you copy? How about a book? Would you lump them into the same category as a CD? Don't they, like the electric company, have fixed costs (machinery) plus static costs of distribution, artwork, etc., plus more dynamic costs such as Big Box store discounts, printing, etc.? While I am glad to hear that you paid for SFV, to be honest, your argument makes no sense to me.
Do you think that the production costs of making a DVD, video game, computer OS/software or music are so different? Sure, some cost more, some cost less. Moral is that they all COST. Would you steal a CD from a store? I hope not (at your age...we ignore what we did when we were younger...heh). What possible difference could you make between going into a store and stealing a CD vs. downloading an illegal copy? It is easier?! How about that DVD question. I have been in many a city were you can buy perfect pirate copies on the street. While I can buy it for pennies, is it right? Upstairs I have a couple of Rolex watches I bought in Brazil for about $10USD. Those are certainly fakes but it is a tangible good that someone (typically poor) took time to construct. I would never be able to afford (or want) a Rolex in any case. However, did I steal from Rolex because I bought a knock-off? No. I'd never EVER buy one. Downloading a CD, though, hits closer to home. Rolex won't go out of business because I bought a fake watch. A certain band might not be able to pay bills if their cds don't sell. Pay to support your favorite bands, is my point. The Justin B. / boyband machine will roll us otherwise.
Parting thought? When you "import" a store-bought CD to your harddrive using Media Player you are probably importing in WMV format. Lossy, IOW. No matter. If you legally own the recording, you are fine. The people who download without ever having once paid for the music are both engaging in illegal activities as well as damaging the genre of music we love. Low sales and those bands will go to no-name labels and then disappear. Bieber effect. Pop sells. Metal doesn't. (Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM)
Head banger wrote:
lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
guidogodoy wrote:
Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
Head banger wrote:
the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
guidogodoy wrote:
You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
Head banger wrote:
See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
guidogodoy wrote:
Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
Head banger wrote:
I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
guidogodoy wrote:
First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
Head banger wrote:
Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 12:06:35 AM
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:43:18 AM
Edited at: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:36:57 PM
Edited at: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:56:07 AM
[DemonCat] Thursday, November 22, 2012 11:00:40 AM
I agree no further discussion is neccesary. Lack of people posting also means fewer trolls. That's one positive of course. Perhaps now there are only the hard core JP fans contributing to the boards. That of course is the ultimate positive for this site. Stay well my friend. I know today isn't your holiday, if you still reside in Canada, but Happy Thanksgiving HB!
I had forgotten that. but statisticly, I think I read that 61% of all internet traffic is pornography. so, while I was kidding, its a fact none the less that porn is the main driver of the net. from there..... lets not continue down that discussion.
and yep, place is different, lack of people is the difference.
DemonCat wrote:
You should already know I'd disagree w/that statement HB. What with all the stink I made in the past about the pics of nearly nude women posted on this site. It actually does feel very nice to be posting here again. I missed a lot of the people from here while I was absent. However, it doesn't feel the same as before. I'm not the same as before. I thought, maybe a little sarcasm from me would help me. So I gave it a try.
Head banger wrote:
isnt that what the internet is for (except the almost part?)
DemonCat wrote:
It's was worth saying to see what kind of response I'd get. To actually contribute in a conversation here again was nice. I believe I almost had an orgasm! (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 6:42:39 PM)
guidogodoy wrote:
No. Technically you are not the complete "owner" of it. You do not own the intellectual property rights nor copyright to it. You basically bought a license for private, personal use. It is not "yours" to give as a gift.
Nice theory, though. You best read up on RIAA law while you can. I don't think you'll be able to access a computer once they finish with you. www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php
DemonCat wrote:
My response to the anti-piracy warning issued by the FBI is this: I bought the cd, dvd etc. I'm the owner of it and all content on it. I therefore "authorize" myself to be able to share it with the world. I do so as a "gift". (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 12:03:48 AM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Ok, then. Despite the huge "FBI Anti-Piracy Warning: Unauthorized copying is punishible under federal law" that is stamped on the back of a cd by the Federal Bureau of Investigation / Department of Justice" you still think it is legal? Do you think the same of a DVD that you copy? How about a book? Would you lump them into the same category as a CD? Don't they, like the electric company, have fixed costs (machinery) plus static costs of distribution, artwork, etc., plus more dynamic costs such as Big Box store discounts, printing, etc.? While I am glad to hear that you paid for SFV, to be honest, your argument makes no sense to me.
Do you think that the production costs of making a DVD, video game, computer OS/software or music are so different? Sure, some cost more, some cost less. Moral is that they all COST. Would you steal a CD from a store? I hope not (at your age...we ignore what we did when we were younger...heh). What possible difference could you make between going into a store and stealing a CD vs. downloading an illegal copy? It is easier?! How about that DVD question. I have been in many a city were you can buy perfect pirate copies on the street. While I can buy it for pennies, is it right? Upstairs I have a couple of Rolex watches I bought in Brazil for about $10USD. Those are certainly fakes but it is a tangible good that someone (typically poor) took time to construct. I would never be able to afford (or want) a Rolex in any case. However, did I steal from Rolex because I bought a knock-off? No. I'd never EVER buy one. Downloading a CD, though, hits closer to home. Rolex won't go out of business because I bought a fake watch. A certain band might not be able to pay bills if their cds don't sell. Pay to support your favorite bands, is my point. The Justin B. / boyband machine will roll us otherwise.
Parting thought? When you "import" a store-bought CD to your harddrive using Media Player you are probably importing in WMV format. Lossy, IOW. No matter. If you legally own the recording, you are fine. The people who download without ever having once paid for the music are both engaging in illegal activities as well as damaging the genre of music we love. Low sales and those bands will go to no-name labels and then disappear. Bieber effect. Pop sells. Metal doesn't. (Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM)
Head banger wrote:
lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
guidogodoy wrote:
Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
Head banger wrote:
the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
guidogodoy wrote:
You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
Head banger wrote:
See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
guidogodoy wrote:
Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
Head banger wrote:
I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
guidogodoy wrote:
First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
Head banger wrote:
Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 12:06:35 AM
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:43:18 AM
Edited at: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:36:57 PM
[tardisgirl70] Thursday, November 22, 2012 10:59:36 AM
Just bought Accept's Blood of the Nations for the other half, for Xmas. Great present - 'cos I like it too
[Head banger] Thursday, November 22, 2012 7:57:49 AM
I had forgotten that. but statisticly, I think I read that 61% of all internet traffic is pornography. so, while I was kidding, its a fact none the less that porn is the main driver of the net. from there..... lets not continue down that discussion.
and yep, place is different, lack of people is the difference. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by DemonCat from Thursday, November 22, 2012 7:41:17 AM)
DemonCat wrote:
You should already know I'd disagree w/that statement HB. What with all the stink I made in the past about the pics of nearly nude women posted on this site. It actually does feel very nice to be posting here again. I missed a lot of the people from here while I was absent. However, it doesn't feel the same as before. I'm not the same as before. I thought, maybe a little sarcasm from me would help me. So I gave it a try.
Head banger wrote:
isnt that what the internet is for (except the almost part?)
DemonCat wrote:
It's was worth saying to see what kind of response I'd get. To actually contribute in a conversation here again was nice. I believe I almost had an orgasm! (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 6:42:39 PM)
guidogodoy wrote:
No. Technically you are not the complete "owner" of it. You do not own the intellectual property rights nor copyright to it. You basically bought a license for private, personal use. It is not "yours" to give as a gift.
Nice theory, though. You best read up on RIAA law while you can. I don't think you'll be able to access a computer once they finish with you. www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php
DemonCat wrote:
My response to the anti-piracy warning issued by the FBI is this: I bought the cd, dvd etc. I'm the owner of it and all content on it. I therefore "authorize" myself to be able to share it with the world. I do so as a "gift". (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 12:03:48 AM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Ok, then. Despite the huge "FBI Anti-Piracy Warning: Unauthorized copying is punishible under federal law" that is stamped on the back of a cd by the Federal Bureau of Investigation / Department of Justice" you still think it is legal? Do you think the same of a DVD that you copy? How about a book? Would you lump them into the same category as a CD? Don't they, like the electric company, have fixed costs (machinery) plus static costs of distribution, artwork, etc., plus more dynamic costs such as Big Box store discounts, printing, etc.? While I am glad to hear that you paid for SFV, to be honest, your argument makes no sense to me.
Do you think that the production costs of making a DVD, video game, computer OS/software or music are so different? Sure, some cost more, some cost less. Moral is that they all COST. Would you steal a CD from a store? I hope not (at your age...we ignore what we did when we were younger...heh). What possible difference could you make between going into a store and stealing a CD vs. downloading an illegal copy? It is easier?! How about that DVD question. I have been in many a city were you can buy perfect pirate copies on the street. While I can buy it for pennies, is it right? Upstairs I have a couple of Rolex watches I bought in Brazil for about $10USD. Those are certainly fakes but it is a tangible good that someone (typically poor) took time to construct. I would never be able to afford (or want) a Rolex in any case. However, did I steal from Rolex because I bought a knock-off? No. I'd never EVER buy one. Downloading a CD, though, hits closer to home. Rolex won't go out of business because I bought a fake watch. A certain band might not be able to pay bills if their cds don't sell. Pay to support your favorite bands, is my point. The Justin B. / boyband machine will roll us otherwise.
Parting thought? When you "import" a store-bought CD to your harddrive using Media Player you are probably importing in WMV format. Lossy, IOW. No matter. If you legally own the recording, you are fine. The people who download without ever having once paid for the music are both engaging in illegal activities as well as damaging the genre of music we love. Low sales and those bands will go to no-name labels and then disappear. Bieber effect. Pop sells. Metal doesn't. (Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM)
Head banger wrote:
lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
guidogodoy wrote:
Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
Head banger wrote:
the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
guidogodoy wrote:
You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
Head banger wrote:
See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
guidogodoy wrote:
Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
Head banger wrote:
I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
guidogodoy wrote:
First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
Head banger wrote:
Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 12:06:35 AM
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:43:18 AM
Edited at: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:36:57 PM
[DemonCat] Thursday, November 22, 2012 7:56:06 AM
What's the question about Ratt Invasion of Your Privacy? I own a legal copy of it on cd. It's great imo.
Your review? Did you download it first? You know, I never said it but your comment about wanting the CD art is the same argument we LP-ers had about the smaller format. NOTHING like seeing the Iron Maiden (Powerslave? Seventh Son? Somewhere in Time?) in full glory. Outstanding artwork that, I feel, was sadly lost in the CD format. Forget about it with the digital download.
Ratt? "Invasion of Your Privacy" anyone? Just a photo but WOW! (Quoting Message by Vaillant 3.0 from Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:43:28 AM)
Vaillant 3.0 wrote:
Actually, I did! Just a couple of weeks ago.
Scorpions-Animal Magnetism
guidogodoy wrote:
I've seen pictures of you both. I prefer to block this image from my mind and get back on topic.
SO, who has bought any new CDs lately!
Head banger wrote:
isnt that what the internet is for (except the almost part?)
DemonCat wrote:
It's was worth saying to see what kind of response I'd get. To actually contribute in a conversation here again was nice. I believe I almost had an orgasm! (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 6:42:39 PM)
guidogodoy wrote:
No. Technically you are not the complete "owner" of it. You do not own the intellectual property rights nor copyright to it. You basically bought a license for private, personal use. It is not "yours" to give as a gift.
Nice theory, though. You best read up on RIAA law while you can. I don't think you'll be able to access a computer once they finish with you. www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php
DemonCat wrote:
My response to the anti-piracy warning issued by the FBI is this: I bought the cd, dvd etc. I'm the owner of it and all content on it. I therefore "authorize" myself to be able to share it with the world. I do so as a "gift". (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 12:03:48 AM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Ok, then. Despite the huge "FBI Anti-Piracy Warning: Unauthorized copying is punishible under federal law" that is stamped on the back of a cd by the Federal Bureau of Investigation / Department of Justice" you still think it is legal? Do you think the same of a DVD that you copy? How about a book? Would you lump them into the same category as a CD? Don't they, like the electric company, have fixed costs (machinery) plus static costs of distribution, artwork, etc., plus more dynamic costs such as Big Box store discounts, printing, etc.? While I am glad to hear that you paid for SFV, to be honest, your argument makes no sense to me.
Do you think that the production costs of making a DVD, video game, computer OS/software or music are so different? Sure, some cost more, some cost less. Moral is that they all COST. Would you steal a CD from a store? I hope not (at your age...we ignore what we did when we were younger...heh). What possible difference could you make between going into a store and stealing a CD vs. downloading an illegal copy? It is easier?! How about that DVD question. I have been in many a city were you can buy perfect pirate copies on the street. While I can buy it for pennies, is it right? Upstairs I have a couple of Rolex watches I bought in Brazil for about $10USD. Those are certainly fakes but it is a tangible good that someone (typically poor) took time to construct. I would never be able to afford (or want) a Rolex in any case. However, did I steal from Rolex because I bought a knock-off? No. I'd never EVER buy one. Downloading a CD, though, hits closer to home. Rolex won't go out of business because I bought a fake watch. A certain band might not be able to pay bills if their cds don't sell. Pay to support your favorite bands, is my point. The Justin B. / boyband machine will roll us otherwise.
Parting thought? When you "import" a store-bought CD to your harddrive using Media Player you are probably importing in WMV format. Lossy, IOW. No matter. If you legally own the recording, you are fine. The people who download without ever having once paid for the music are both engaging in illegal activities as well as damaging the genre of music we love. Low sales and those bands will go to no-name labels and then disappear. Bieber effect. Pop sells. Metal doesn't. (Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM)
Head banger wrote:
lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
guidogodoy wrote:
Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
Head banger wrote:
the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
guidogodoy wrote:
You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
Head banger wrote:
See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
guidogodoy wrote:
Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
Head banger wrote:
I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
guidogodoy wrote:
First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
Head banger wrote:
Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 12:06:35 AM
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:43:18 AM
Edited at: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:36:57 PM
Edited at: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:56:07 AM
[DemonCat] Thursday, November 22, 2012 7:52:40 AM
Nice, honest review Vail. Maybe the rest will grow on you.
I bought the CD at the record store without having downloaded(ed?) it. Aside from "The Zoo", I haven't heard any of the other songs anywhere else. The album is alright. Nothing like Blackout or Lovedrive lyrics-wise. It probably won't see much action in the car apart from "The Zoo", "Animal Magnetism" and "Don't Make No Promises". (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:50:41 AM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Oh, thank goodness. Back on topic!!
Your review? Did you download it first? You know, I never said it but your comment about wanting the CD art is the same argument we LP-ers had about the smaller format. NOTHING like seeing the Iron Maiden (Powerslave? Seventh Son? Somewhere in Time?) in full glory. Outstanding artwork that, I feel, was sadly lost in the CD format. Forget about it with the digital download.
Ratt? "Invasion of Your Privacy" anyone? Just a photo but WOW! (Quoting Message by Vaillant 3.0 from Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:43:28 AM)
Vaillant 3.0 wrote:
Actually, I did! Just a couple of weeks ago.
Scorpions-Animal Magnetism
guidogodoy wrote:
I've seen pictures of you both. I prefer to block this image from my mind and get back on topic.
SO, who has bought any new CDs lately!
Head banger wrote:
isnt that what the internet is for (except the almost part?)
DemonCat wrote:
It's was worth saying to see what kind of response I'd get. To actually contribute in a conversation here again was nice. I believe I almost had an orgasm! (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 6:42:39 PM)
guidogodoy wrote:
No. Technically you are not the complete "owner" of it. You do not own the intellectual property rights nor copyright to it. You basically bought a license for private, personal use. It is not "yours" to give as a gift.
Nice theory, though. You best read up on RIAA law while you can. I don't think you'll be able to access a computer once they finish with you. www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php
DemonCat wrote:
My response to the anti-piracy warning issued by the FBI is this: I bought the cd, dvd etc. I'm the owner of it and all content on it. I therefore "authorize" myself to be able to share it with the world. I do so as a "gift". (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 12:03:48 AM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Ok, then. Despite the huge "FBI Anti-Piracy Warning: Unauthorized copying is punishible under federal law" that is stamped on the back of a cd by the Federal Bureau of Investigation / Department of Justice" you still think it is legal? Do you think the same of a DVD that you copy? How about a book? Would you lump them into the same category as a CD? Don't they, like the electric company, have fixed costs (machinery) plus static costs of distribution, artwork, etc., plus more dynamic costs such as Big Box store discounts, printing, etc.? While I am glad to hear that you paid for SFV, to be honest, your argument makes no sense to me.
Do you think that the production costs of making a DVD, video game, computer OS/software or music are so different? Sure, some cost more, some cost less. Moral is that they all COST. Would you steal a CD from a store? I hope not (at your age...we ignore what we did when we were younger...heh). What possible difference could you make between going into a store and stealing a CD vs. downloading an illegal copy? It is easier?! How about that DVD question. I have been in many a city were you can buy perfect pirate copies on the street. While I can buy it for pennies, is it right? Upstairs I have a couple of Rolex watches I bought in Brazil for about $10USD. Those are certainly fakes but it is a tangible good that someone (typically poor) took time to construct. I would never be able to afford (or want) a Rolex in any case. However, did I steal from Rolex because I bought a knock-off? No. I'd never EVER buy one. Downloading a CD, though, hits closer to home. Rolex won't go out of business because I bought a fake watch. A certain band might not be able to pay bills if their cds don't sell. Pay to support your favorite bands, is my point. The Justin B. / boyband machine will roll us otherwise.
Parting thought? When you "import" a store-bought CD to your harddrive using Media Player you are probably importing in WMV format. Lossy, IOW. No matter. If you legally own the recording, you are fine. The people who download without ever having once paid for the music are both engaging in illegal activities as well as damaging the genre of music we love. Low sales and those bands will go to no-name labels and then disappear. Bieber effect. Pop sells. Metal doesn't. (Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM)
Head banger wrote:
lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
guidogodoy wrote:
Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
Head banger wrote:
the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
guidogodoy wrote:
You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
Head banger wrote:
See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
guidogodoy wrote:
Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
Head banger wrote:
I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
guidogodoy wrote:
First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
Head banger wrote:
Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 12:06:35 AM
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:43:18 AM
Edited at: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:36:57 PM
Edited at: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:56:07 AM
Edited at: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:59:51 AM
[DemonCat] Thursday, November 22, 2012 7:47:36 AM
Like I said in my 2nd post. I bought Kiss' new cd Monster. Of course I bought the deluxe edition of it. I've only heard it twice, and therefore don't feel comfy yet at giving a review, but it has potential to grow on me. No songs have stuck out for me. The mini magazine included was worth the extra couple dollars I thought.
I've seen pictures of you both. I prefer to block this image from my mind and get back on topic.
SO, who has bought any new CDs lately!
Head banger wrote:
isnt that what the internet is for (except the almost part?)
DemonCat wrote:
It's was worth saying to see what kind of response I'd get. To actually contribute in a conversation here again was nice. I believe I almost had an orgasm! (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 6:42:39 PM)
guidogodoy wrote:
No. Technically you are not the complete "owner" of it. You do not own the intellectual property rights nor copyright to it. You basically bought a license for private, personal use. It is not "yours" to give as a gift.
Nice theory, though. You best read up on RIAA law while you can. I don't think you'll be able to access a computer once they finish with you. www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php
DemonCat wrote:
My response to the anti-piracy warning issued by the FBI is this: I bought the cd, dvd etc. I'm the owner of it and all content on it. I therefore "authorize" myself to be able to share it with the world. I do so as a "gift". (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 12:03:48 AM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Ok, then. Despite the huge "FBI Anti-Piracy Warning: Unauthorized copying is punishible under federal law" that is stamped on the back of a cd by the Federal Bureau of Investigation / Department of Justice" you still think it is legal? Do you think the same of a DVD that you copy? How about a book? Would you lump them into the same category as a CD? Don't they, like the electric company, have fixed costs (machinery) plus static costs of distribution, artwork, etc., plus more dynamic costs such as Big Box store discounts, printing, etc.? While I am glad to hear that you paid for SFV, to be honest, your argument makes no sense to me.
Do you think that the production costs of making a DVD, video game, computer OS/software or music are so different? Sure, some cost more, some cost less. Moral is that they all COST. Would you steal a CD from a store? I hope not (at your age...we ignore what we did when we were younger...heh). What possible difference could you make between going into a store and stealing a CD vs. downloading an illegal copy? It is easier?! How about that DVD question. I have been in many a city were you can buy perfect pirate copies on the street. While I can buy it for pennies, is it right? Upstairs I have a couple of Rolex watches I bought in Brazil for about $10USD. Those are certainly fakes but it is a tangible good that someone (typically poor) took time to construct. I would never be able to afford (or want) a Rolex in any case. However, did I steal from Rolex because I bought a knock-off? No. I'd never EVER buy one. Downloading a CD, though, hits closer to home. Rolex won't go out of business because I bought a fake watch. A certain band might not be able to pay bills if their cds don't sell. Pay to support your favorite bands, is my point. The Justin B. / boyband machine will roll us otherwise.
Parting thought? When you "import" a store-bought CD to your harddrive using Media Player you are probably importing in WMV format. Lossy, IOW. No matter. If you legally own the recording, you are fine. The people who download without ever having once paid for the music are both engaging in illegal activities as well as damaging the genre of music we love. Low sales and those bands will go to no-name labels and then disappear. Bieber effect. Pop sells. Metal doesn't. (Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM)
Head banger wrote:
lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
guidogodoy wrote:
Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
Head banger wrote:
the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
guidogodoy wrote:
You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
Head banger wrote:
See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
guidogodoy wrote:
Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
Head banger wrote:
I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
guidogodoy wrote:
First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
Head banger wrote:
Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 12:06:35 AM
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:43:18 AM
Edited at: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:36:57 PM
[DemonCat] Thursday, November 22, 2012 7:41:17 AM
You should already know I'd disagree w/that statement HB. What with all the stink I made in the past about the pics of nearly nude women posted on this site. It actually does feel very nice to be posting here again. I missed a lot of the people from here while I was absent. However, it doesn't feel the same as before. I'm not the same as before. I thought, maybe a little sarcasm from me would help me. So I gave it a try.
isnt that what the internet is for (except the almost part?)
DemonCat wrote:
It's was worth saying to see what kind of response I'd get. To actually contribute in a conversation here again was nice. I believe I almost had an orgasm! (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 6:42:39 PM)
guidogodoy wrote:
No. Technically you are not the complete "owner" of it. You do not own the intellectual property rights nor copyright to it. You basically bought a license for private, personal use. It is not "yours" to give as a gift.
Nice theory, though. You best read up on RIAA law while you can. I don't think you'll be able to access a computer once they finish with you. www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php
DemonCat wrote:
My response to the anti-piracy warning issued by the FBI is this: I bought the cd, dvd etc. I'm the owner of it and all content on it. I therefore "authorize" myself to be able to share it with the world. I do so as a "gift". (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 12:03:48 AM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Ok, then. Despite the huge "FBI Anti-Piracy Warning: Unauthorized copying is punishible under federal law" that is stamped on the back of a cd by the Federal Bureau of Investigation / Department of Justice" you still think it is legal? Do you think the same of a DVD that you copy? How about a book? Would you lump them into the same category as a CD? Don't they, like the electric company, have fixed costs (machinery) plus static costs of distribution, artwork, etc., plus more dynamic costs such as Big Box store discounts, printing, etc.? While I am glad to hear that you paid for SFV, to be honest, your argument makes no sense to me.
Do you think that the production costs of making a DVD, video game, computer OS/software or music are so different? Sure, some cost more, some cost less. Moral is that they all COST. Would you steal a CD from a store? I hope not (at your age...we ignore what we did when we were younger...heh). What possible difference could you make between going into a store and stealing a CD vs. downloading an illegal copy? It is easier?! How about that DVD question. I have been in many a city were you can buy perfect pirate copies on the street. While I can buy it for pennies, is it right? Upstairs I have a couple of Rolex watches I bought in Brazil for about $10USD. Those are certainly fakes but it is a tangible good that someone (typically poor) took time to construct. I would never be able to afford (or want) a Rolex in any case. However, did I steal from Rolex because I bought a knock-off? No. I'd never EVER buy one. Downloading a CD, though, hits closer to home. Rolex won't go out of business because I bought a fake watch. A certain band might not be able to pay bills if their cds don't sell. Pay to support your favorite bands, is my point. The Justin B. / boyband machine will roll us otherwise.
Parting thought? When you "import" a store-bought CD to your harddrive using Media Player you are probably importing in WMV format. Lossy, IOW. No matter. If you legally own the recording, you are fine. The people who download without ever having once paid for the music are both engaging in illegal activities as well as damaging the genre of music we love. Low sales and those bands will go to no-name labels and then disappear. Bieber effect. Pop sells. Metal doesn't. (Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM)
Head banger wrote:
lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
guidogodoy wrote:
Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
Head banger wrote:
the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
guidogodoy wrote:
You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
Head banger wrote:
See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
guidogodoy wrote:
Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
Head banger wrote:
I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
guidogodoy wrote:
First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
Head banger wrote:
Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
I can't tell you how glad I am to read the word "almost" in your obviously joking response! LOL!
DemonCat wrote:
It's was worth saying to see what kind of response I'd get. To actually contribute in a conversation here again was nice. I believe I almost had an orgasm! (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 6:42:39 PM)
guidogodoy wrote:
No. Technically you are not the complete "owner" of it. You do not own the intellectual property rights nor copyright to it. You basically bought a license for private, personal use. It is not "yours" to give as a gift.
Nice theory, though. You best read up on RIAA law while you can. I don't think you'll be able to access a computer once they finish with you. www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php
DemonCat wrote:
My response to the anti-piracy warning issued by the FBI is this: I bought the cd, dvd etc. I'm the owner of it and all content on it. I therefore "authorize" myself to be able to share it with the world. I do so as a "gift". (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 12:03:48 AM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Ok, then. Despite the huge "FBI Anti-Piracy Warning: Unauthorized copying is punishible under federal law" that is stamped on the back of a cd by the Federal Bureau of Investigation / Department of Justice" you still think it is legal? Do you think the same of a DVD that you copy? How about a book? Would you lump them into the same category as a CD? Don't they, like the electric company, have fixed costs (machinery) plus static costs of distribution, artwork, etc., plus more dynamic costs such as Big Box store discounts, printing, etc.? While I am glad to hear that you paid for SFV, to be honest, your argument makes no sense to me.
Do you think that the production costs of making a DVD, video game, computer OS/software or music are so different? Sure, some cost more, some cost less. Moral is that they all COST. Would you steal a CD from a store? I hope not (at your age...we ignore what we did when we were younger...heh). What possible difference could you make between going into a store and stealing a CD vs. downloading an illegal copy? It is easier?! How about that DVD question. I have been in many a city were you can buy perfect pirate copies on the street. While I can buy it for pennies, is it right? Upstairs I have a couple of Rolex watches I bought in Brazil for about $10USD. Those are certainly fakes but it is a tangible good that someone (typically poor) took time to construct. I would never be able to afford (or want) a Rolex in any case. However, did I steal from Rolex because I bought a knock-off? No. I'd never EVER buy one. Downloading a CD, though, hits closer to home. Rolex won't go out of business because I bought a fake watch. A certain band might not be able to pay bills if their cds don't sell. Pay to support your favorite bands, is my point. The Justin B. / boyband machine will roll us otherwise.
Parting thought? When you "import" a store-bought CD to your harddrive using Media Player you are probably importing in WMV format. Lossy, IOW. No matter. If you legally own the recording, you are fine. The people who download without ever having once paid for the music are both engaging in illegal activities as well as damaging the genre of music we love. Low sales and those bands will go to no-name labels and then disappear. Bieber effect. Pop sells. Metal doesn't. (Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM)
Head banger wrote:
lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
guidogodoy wrote:
Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
Head banger wrote:
the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
guidogodoy wrote:
You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
Head banger wrote:
See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
guidogodoy wrote:
Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
Head banger wrote:
I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
guidogodoy wrote:
First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
Head banger wrote:
Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 12:06:35 AM
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:43:18 AM
Edited at: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:36:57 PM
[guidogodoy] Wednesday, November 21, 2012 1:15:16 AM
Outstanding! Would that they had continued in that direction. Kinda lost me with all the wimpy ballads that often followed. Still, I run to that one all the time as it is just great from start to finish.
Talking about "downloading," I got a crappy dubbed tape of it in Spain. Bought the real deal as soon as I could. HAHA, now that I think of it, same vendor in Madrid sold me a cheap version of Mick Jagger's only solo album (that I recall). Only wanted the one song that ever made the charts. Who else could pull off a "Give us yer coat" from Rae Dawn Chong and break into song?! LOL
While I still own the bootleg tape, ummm...I stick to watching this on video!
But you certainly own their outstanding "Love at First Sting," no? THAT is a must.
Vaillant 3.0 wrote:
I bought the CD at the record store without having downloaded(ed?) it. Aside from "The Zoo", I haven't heard any of the other songs anywhere else. The album is alright. Nothing like Blackout or Lovedrive lyrics-wise. It probably won't see much action in the car apart from "The Zoo", "Animal Magnetism" and "Don't Make No Promises". (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:50:41 AM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Oh, thank goodness. Back on topic!!
Your review? Did you download it first? You know, I never said it but your comment about wanting the CD art is the same argument we LP-ers had about the smaller format. NOTHING like seeing the Iron Maiden (Powerslave? Seventh Son? Somewhere in Time?) in full glory. Outstanding artwork that, I feel, was sadly lost in the CD format. Forget about it with the digital download.
Ratt? "Invasion of Your Privacy" anyone? Just a photo but WOW! (Quoting Message by Vaillant 3.0 from Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:43:28 AM)
Vaillant 3.0 wrote:
Actually, I did! Just a couple of weeks ago.
Scorpions-Animal Magnetism
guidogodoy wrote:
I've seen pictures of you both. I prefer to block this image from my mind and get back on topic.
SO, who has bought any new CDs lately!
Head banger wrote:
isnt that what the internet is for (except the almost part?)
DemonCat wrote:
It's was worth saying to see what kind of response I'd get. To actually contribute in a conversation here again was nice. I believe I almost had an orgasm! (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 6:42:39 PM)
guidogodoy wrote:
No. Technically you are not the complete "owner" of it. You do not own the intellectual property rights nor copyright to it. You basically bought a license for private, personal use. It is not "yours" to give as a gift.
Nice theory, though. You best read up on RIAA law while you can. I don't think you'll be able to access a computer once they finish with you. www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php
DemonCat wrote:
My response to the anti-piracy warning issued by the FBI is this: I bought the cd, dvd etc. I'm the owner of it and all content on it. I therefore "authorize" myself to be able to share it with the world. I do so as a "gift". (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 12:03:48 AM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Ok, then. Despite the huge "FBI Anti-Piracy Warning: Unauthorized copying is punishible under federal law" that is stamped on the back of a cd by the Federal Bureau of Investigation / Department of Justice" you still think it is legal? Do you think the same of a DVD that you copy? How about a book? Would you lump them into the same category as a CD? Don't they, like the electric company, have fixed costs (machinery) plus static costs of distribution, artwork, etc., plus more dynamic costs such as Big Box store discounts, printing, etc.? While I am glad to hear that you paid for SFV, to be honest, your argument makes no sense to me.
Do you think that the production costs of making a DVD, video game, computer OS/software or music are so different? Sure, some cost more, some cost less. Moral is that they all COST. Would you steal a CD from a store? I hope not (at your age...we ignore what we did when we were younger...heh). What possible difference could you make between going into a store and stealing a CD vs. downloading an illegal copy? It is easier?! How about that DVD question. I have been in many a city were you can buy perfect pirate copies on the street. While I can buy it for pennies, is it right? Upstairs I have a couple of Rolex watches I bought in Brazil for about $10USD. Those are certainly fakes but it is a tangible good that someone (typically poor) took time to construct. I would never be able to afford (or want) a Rolex in any case. However, did I steal from Rolex because I bought a knock-off? No. I'd never EVER buy one. Downloading a CD, though, hits closer to home. Rolex won't go out of business because I bought a fake watch. A certain band might not be able to pay bills if their cds don't sell. Pay to support your favorite bands, is my point. The Justin B. / boyband machine will roll us otherwise.
Parting thought? When you "import" a store-bought CD to your harddrive using Media Player you are probably importing in WMV format. Lossy, IOW. No matter. If you legally own the recording, you are fine. The people who download without ever having once paid for the music are both engaging in illegal activities as well as damaging the genre of music we love. Low sales and those bands will go to no-name labels and then disappear. Bieber effect. Pop sells. Metal doesn't. (Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM)
Head banger wrote:
lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
guidogodoy wrote:
Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
Head banger wrote:
the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
guidogodoy wrote:
You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
Head banger wrote:
See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
guidogodoy wrote:
Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
Head banger wrote:
I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
guidogodoy wrote:
First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
Head banger wrote:
Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 12:06:35 AM
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:43:18 AM
Edited at: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:36:57 PM
Edited at: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:56:07 AM
Edited at: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:59:51 AM
Edited at: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 1:20:42 AM
[Vaillant 3.0] Wednesday, November 21, 2012 1:06:03 AM
But you certainly own their outstanding "Love at First Sting," no? THAT is a must.
Vaillant 3.0 wrote:
I bought the CD at the record store without having downloaded(ed?) it. Aside from "The Zoo", I haven't heard any of the other songs anywhere else. The album is alright. Nothing like Blackout or Lovedrive lyrics-wise. It probably won't see much action in the car apart from "The Zoo", "Animal Magnetism" and "Don't Make No Promises". (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:50:41 AM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Oh, thank goodness. Back on topic!!
Your review? Did you download it first? You know, I never said it but your comment about wanting the CD art is the same argument we LP-ers had about the smaller format. NOTHING like seeing the Iron Maiden (Powerslave? Seventh Son? Somewhere in Time?) in full glory. Outstanding artwork that, I feel, was sadly lost in the CD format. Forget about it with the digital download.
Ratt? "Invasion of Your Privacy" anyone? Just a photo but WOW! (Quoting Message by Vaillant 3.0 from Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:43:28 AM)
Vaillant 3.0 wrote:
Actually, I did! Just a couple of weeks ago.
Scorpions-Animal Magnetism
guidogodoy wrote:
I've seen pictures of you both. I prefer to block this image from my mind and get back on topic.
SO, who has bought any new CDs lately!
Head banger wrote:
isnt that what the internet is for (except the almost part?)
DemonCat wrote:
It's was worth saying to see what kind of response I'd get. To actually contribute in a conversation here again was nice. I believe I almost had an orgasm! (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 6:42:39 PM)
guidogodoy wrote:
No. Technically you are not the complete "owner" of it. You do not own the intellectual property rights nor copyright to it. You basically bought a license for private, personal use. It is not "yours" to give as a gift.
Nice theory, though. You best read up on RIAA law while you can. I don't think you'll be able to access a computer once they finish with you. www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php
DemonCat wrote:
My response to the anti-piracy warning issued by the FBI is this: I bought the cd, dvd etc. I'm the owner of it and all content on it. I therefore "authorize" myself to be able to share it with the world. I do so as a "gift". (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 12:03:48 AM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Ok, then. Despite the huge "FBI Anti-Piracy Warning: Unauthorized copying is punishible under federal law" that is stamped on the back of a cd by the Federal Bureau of Investigation / Department of Justice" you still think it is legal? Do you think the same of a DVD that you copy? How about a book? Would you lump them into the same category as a CD? Don't they, like the electric company, have fixed costs (machinery) plus static costs of distribution, artwork, etc., plus more dynamic costs such as Big Box store discounts, printing, etc.? While I am glad to hear that you paid for SFV, to be honest, your argument makes no sense to me.
Do you think that the production costs of making a DVD, video game, computer OS/software or music are so different? Sure, some cost more, some cost less. Moral is that they all COST. Would you steal a CD from a store? I hope not (at your age...we ignore what we did when we were younger...heh). What possible difference could you make between going into a store and stealing a CD vs. downloading an illegal copy? It is easier?! How about that DVD question. I have been in many a city were you can buy perfect pirate copies on the street. While I can buy it for pennies, is it right? Upstairs I have a couple of Rolex watches I bought in Brazil for about $10USD. Those are certainly fakes but it is a tangible good that someone (typically poor) took time to construct. I would never be able to afford (or want) a Rolex in any case. However, did I steal from Rolex because I bought a knock-off? No. I'd never EVER buy one. Downloading a CD, though, hits closer to home. Rolex won't go out of business because I bought a fake watch. A certain band might not be able to pay bills if their cds don't sell. Pay to support your favorite bands, is my point. The Justin B. / boyband machine will roll us otherwise.
Parting thought? When you "import" a store-bought CD to your harddrive using Media Player you are probably importing in WMV format. Lossy, IOW. No matter. If you legally own the recording, you are fine. The people who download without ever having once paid for the music are both engaging in illegal activities as well as damaging the genre of music we love. Low sales and those bands will go to no-name labels and then disappear. Bieber effect. Pop sells. Metal doesn't. (Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM)
Head banger wrote:
lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
guidogodoy wrote:
Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
Head banger wrote:
the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
guidogodoy wrote:
You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
Head banger wrote:
See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
guidogodoy wrote:
Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
Head banger wrote:
I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
guidogodoy wrote:
First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
Head banger wrote:
Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 12:06:35 AM
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:43:18 AM
Edited at: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:36:57 PM
Edited at: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:56:07 AM
Edited at: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:59:51 AM
[guidogodoy] Wednesday, November 21, 2012 1:00:39 AM
But you certainly own their outstanding "Love at First Sting," no? THAT is a must.
I bought the CD at the record store without having downloaded(ed?) it. Aside from "The Zoo", I haven't heard any of the other songs anywhere else. The album is alright. Nothing like Blackout or Lovedrive lyrics-wise. It probably won't see much action in the car apart from "The Zoo", "Animal Magnetism" and "Don't Make No Promises". (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:50:41 AM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Oh, thank goodness. Back on topic!!
Your review? Did you download it first? You know, I never said it but your comment about wanting the CD art is the same argument we LP-ers had about the smaller format. NOTHING like seeing the Iron Maiden (Powerslave? Seventh Son? Somewhere in Time?) in full glory. Outstanding artwork that, I feel, was sadly lost in the CD format. Forget about it with the digital download.
Ratt? "Invasion of Your Privacy" anyone? Just a photo but WOW! (Quoting Message by Vaillant 3.0 from Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:43:28 AM)
Vaillant 3.0 wrote:
Actually, I did! Just a couple of weeks ago.
Scorpions-Animal Magnetism
guidogodoy wrote:
I've seen pictures of you both. I prefer to block this image from my mind and get back on topic.
SO, who has bought any new CDs lately!
Head banger wrote:
isnt that what the internet is for (except the almost part?)
DemonCat wrote:
It's was worth saying to see what kind of response I'd get. To actually contribute in a conversation here again was nice. I believe I almost had an orgasm! (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 6:42:39 PM)
guidogodoy wrote:
No. Technically you are not the complete "owner" of it. You do not own the intellectual property rights nor copyright to it. You basically bought a license for private, personal use. It is not "yours" to give as a gift.
Nice theory, though. You best read up on RIAA law while you can. I don't think you'll be able to access a computer once they finish with you. www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php
DemonCat wrote:
My response to the anti-piracy warning issued by the FBI is this: I bought the cd, dvd etc. I'm the owner of it and all content on it. I therefore "authorize" myself to be able to share it with the world. I do so as a "gift". (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 12:03:48 AM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Ok, then. Despite the huge "FBI Anti-Piracy Warning: Unauthorized copying is punishible under federal law" that is stamped on the back of a cd by the Federal Bureau of Investigation / Department of Justice" you still think it is legal? Do you think the same of a DVD that you copy? How about a book? Would you lump them into the same category as a CD? Don't they, like the electric company, have fixed costs (machinery) plus static costs of distribution, artwork, etc., plus more dynamic costs such as Big Box store discounts, printing, etc.? While I am glad to hear that you paid for SFV, to be honest, your argument makes no sense to me.
Do you think that the production costs of making a DVD, video game, computer OS/software or music are so different? Sure, some cost more, some cost less. Moral is that they all COST. Would you steal a CD from a store? I hope not (at your age...we ignore what we did when we were younger...heh). What possible difference could you make between going into a store and stealing a CD vs. downloading an illegal copy? It is easier?! How about that DVD question. I have been in many a city were you can buy perfect pirate copies on the street. While I can buy it for pennies, is it right? Upstairs I have a couple of Rolex watches I bought in Brazil for about $10USD. Those are certainly fakes but it is a tangible good that someone (typically poor) took time to construct. I would never be able to afford (or want) a Rolex in any case. However, did I steal from Rolex because I bought a knock-off? No. I'd never EVER buy one. Downloading a CD, though, hits closer to home. Rolex won't go out of business because I bought a fake watch. A certain band might not be able to pay bills if their cds don't sell. Pay to support your favorite bands, is my point. The Justin B. / boyband machine will roll us otherwise.
Parting thought? When you "import" a store-bought CD to your harddrive using Media Player you are probably importing in WMV format. Lossy, IOW. No matter. If you legally own the recording, you are fine. The people who download without ever having once paid for the music are both engaging in illegal activities as well as damaging the genre of music we love. Low sales and those bands will go to no-name labels and then disappear. Bieber effect. Pop sells. Metal doesn't. (Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM)
Head banger wrote:
lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
guidogodoy wrote:
Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
Head banger wrote:
the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
guidogodoy wrote:
You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
Head banger wrote:
See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
guidogodoy wrote:
Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
Head banger wrote:
I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
guidogodoy wrote:
First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
Head banger wrote:
Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 12:06:35 AM
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:43:18 AM
Edited at: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:36:57 PM
Edited at: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:56:07 AM
Edited at: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:59:51 AM
[Vaillant 3.0] Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:58:48 AM
I bought the CD at the record store without having downloaded(ed?) it. Aside from "The Zoo", I haven't heard any of the other songs anywhere else. The album is alright. Nothing like Blackout or Lovedrive lyrics-wise. It probably won't see much action in the car apart from "The Zoo", "Animal Magnetism" and "Don't Make No Promises". [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:50:41 AM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Oh, thank goodness. Back on topic!!
Your review? Did you download it first? You know, I never said it but your comment about wanting the CD art is the same argument we LP-ers had about the smaller format. NOTHING like seeing the Iron Maiden (Powerslave? Seventh Son? Somewhere in Time?) in full glory. Outstanding artwork that, I feel, was sadly lost in the CD format. Forget about it with the digital download.
Ratt? "Invasion of Your Privacy" anyone? Just a photo but WOW! (Quoting Message by Vaillant 3.0 from Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:43:28 AM)
Vaillant 3.0 wrote:
Actually, I did! Just a couple of weeks ago.
Scorpions-Animal Magnetism
guidogodoy wrote:
I've seen pictures of you both. I prefer to block this image from my mind and get back on topic.
SO, who has bought any new CDs lately!
Head banger wrote:
isnt that what the internet is for (except the almost part?)
DemonCat wrote:
It's was worth saying to see what kind of response I'd get. To actually contribute in a conversation here again was nice. I believe I almost had an orgasm! (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 6:42:39 PM)
guidogodoy wrote:
No. Technically you are not the complete "owner" of it. You do not own the intellectual property rights nor copyright to it. You basically bought a license for private, personal use. It is not "yours" to give as a gift.
Nice theory, though. You best read up on RIAA law while you can. I don't think you'll be able to access a computer once they finish with you. www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php
DemonCat wrote:
My response to the anti-piracy warning issued by the FBI is this: I bought the cd, dvd etc. I'm the owner of it and all content on it. I therefore "authorize" myself to be able to share it with the world. I do so as a "gift". (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 12:03:48 AM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Ok, then. Despite the huge "FBI Anti-Piracy Warning: Unauthorized copying is punishible under federal law" that is stamped on the back of a cd by the Federal Bureau of Investigation / Department of Justice" you still think it is legal? Do you think the same of a DVD that you copy? How about a book? Would you lump them into the same category as a CD? Don't they, like the electric company, have fixed costs (machinery) plus static costs of distribution, artwork, etc., plus more dynamic costs such as Big Box store discounts, printing, etc.? While I am glad to hear that you paid for SFV, to be honest, your argument makes no sense to me.
Do you think that the production costs of making a DVD, video game, computer OS/software or music are so different? Sure, some cost more, some cost less. Moral is that they all COST. Would you steal a CD from a store? I hope not (at your age...we ignore what we did when we were younger...heh). What possible difference could you make between going into a store and stealing a CD vs. downloading an illegal copy? It is easier?! How about that DVD question. I have been in many a city were you can buy perfect pirate copies on the street. While I can buy it for pennies, is it right? Upstairs I have a couple of Rolex watches I bought in Brazil for about $10USD. Those are certainly fakes but it is a tangible good that someone (typically poor) took time to construct. I would never be able to afford (or want) a Rolex in any case. However, did I steal from Rolex because I bought a knock-off? No. I'd never EVER buy one. Downloading a CD, though, hits closer to home. Rolex won't go out of business because I bought a fake watch. A certain band might not be able to pay bills if their cds don't sell. Pay to support your favorite bands, is my point. The Justin B. / boyband machine will roll us otherwise.
Parting thought? When you "import" a store-bought CD to your harddrive using Media Player you are probably importing in WMV format. Lossy, IOW. No matter. If you legally own the recording, you are fine. The people who download without ever having once paid for the music are both engaging in illegal activities as well as damaging the genre of music we love. Low sales and those bands will go to no-name labels and then disappear. Bieber effect. Pop sells. Metal doesn't. (Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM)
Head banger wrote:
lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
guidogodoy wrote:
Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
Head banger wrote:
the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
guidogodoy wrote:
You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
Head banger wrote:
See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
guidogodoy wrote:
Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
Head banger wrote:
I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
guidogodoy wrote:
First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
Head banger wrote:
Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 12:06:35 AM
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:43:18 AM
Edited at: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:36:57 PM
Edited at: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:56:07 AM
Edited at: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:59:51 AM
[guidogodoy] Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:50:41 AM
Oh, thank goodness. Back on topic!!
Your review? Did you download it first? You know, I never said it but your comment about wanting the CD art is the same argument we LP-ers had about the smaller format. NOTHING like seeing the Iron Maiden (Powerslave? Seventh Son? Somewhere in Time?) in full glory. Outstanding artwork that, I feel, was sadly lost in the CD format. Forget about it with the digital download.
Ratt? "Invasion of Your Privacy" anyone? Just a photo but WOW! [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by Vaillant 3.0 from Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:43:28 AM)
Vaillant 3.0 wrote:
Actually, I did! Just a couple of weeks ago.
Scorpions-Animal Magnetism
guidogodoy wrote:
I've seen pictures of you both. I prefer to block this image from my mind and get back on topic.
SO, who has bought any new CDs lately!
Head banger wrote:
isnt that what the internet is for (except the almost part?)
DemonCat wrote:
It's was worth saying to see what kind of response I'd get. To actually contribute in a conversation here again was nice. I believe I almost had an orgasm! (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 6:42:39 PM)
guidogodoy wrote:
No. Technically you are not the complete "owner" of it. You do not own the intellectual property rights nor copyright to it. You basically bought a license for private, personal use. It is not "yours" to give as a gift.
Nice theory, though. You best read up on RIAA law while you can. I don't think you'll be able to access a computer once they finish with you. www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php
DemonCat wrote:
My response to the anti-piracy warning issued by the FBI is this: I bought the cd, dvd etc. I'm the owner of it and all content on it. I therefore "authorize" myself to be able to share it with the world. I do so as a "gift". (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 12:03:48 AM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Ok, then. Despite the huge "FBI Anti-Piracy Warning: Unauthorized copying is punishible under federal law" that is stamped on the back of a cd by the Federal Bureau of Investigation / Department of Justice" you still think it is legal? Do you think the same of a DVD that you copy? How about a book? Would you lump them into the same category as a CD? Don't they, like the electric company, have fixed costs (machinery) plus static costs of distribution, artwork, etc., plus more dynamic costs such as Big Box store discounts, printing, etc.? While I am glad to hear that you paid for SFV, to be honest, your argument makes no sense to me.
Do you think that the production costs of making a DVD, video game, computer OS/software or music are so different? Sure, some cost more, some cost less. Moral is that they all COST. Would you steal a CD from a store? I hope not (at your age...we ignore what we did when we were younger...heh). What possible difference could you make between going into a store and stealing a CD vs. downloading an illegal copy? It is easier?! How about that DVD question. I have been in many a city were you can buy perfect pirate copies on the street. While I can buy it for pennies, is it right? Upstairs I have a couple of Rolex watches I bought in Brazil for about $10USD. Those are certainly fakes but it is a tangible good that someone (typically poor) took time to construct. I would never be able to afford (or want) a Rolex in any case. However, did I steal from Rolex because I bought a knock-off? No. I'd never EVER buy one. Downloading a CD, though, hits closer to home. Rolex won't go out of business because I bought a fake watch. A certain band might not be able to pay bills if their cds don't sell. Pay to support your favorite bands, is my point. The Justin B. / boyband machine will roll us otherwise.
Parting thought? When you "import" a store-bought CD to your harddrive using Media Player you are probably importing in WMV format. Lossy, IOW. No matter. If you legally own the recording, you are fine. The people who download without ever having once paid for the music are both engaging in illegal activities as well as damaging the genre of music we love. Low sales and those bands will go to no-name labels and then disappear. Bieber effect. Pop sells. Metal doesn't. (Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM)
Head banger wrote:
lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
guidogodoy wrote:
Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
Head banger wrote:
the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
guidogodoy wrote:
You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
Head banger wrote:
See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
guidogodoy wrote:
Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
Head banger wrote:
I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
guidogodoy wrote:
First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
Head banger wrote:
Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 12:06:35 AM
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:43:18 AM
Edited at: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:36:57 PM
Edited at: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:56:07 AM
[Vaillant 3.0] Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:43:28 AM
I've seen pictures of you both. I prefer to block this image from my mind and get back on topic.
SO, who has bought any new CDs lately!
Head banger wrote:
isnt that what the internet is for (except the almost part?)
DemonCat wrote:
It's was worth saying to see what kind of response I'd get. To actually contribute in a conversation here again was nice. I believe I almost had an orgasm! (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 6:42:39 PM)
guidogodoy wrote:
No. Technically you are not the complete "owner" of it. You do not own the intellectual property rights nor copyright to it. You basically bought a license for private, personal use. It is not "yours" to give as a gift.
Nice theory, though. You best read up on RIAA law while you can. I don't think you'll be able to access a computer once they finish with you. www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php
DemonCat wrote:
My response to the anti-piracy warning issued by the FBI is this: I bought the cd, dvd etc. I'm the owner of it and all content on it. I therefore "authorize" myself to be able to share it with the world. I do so as a "gift". (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 12:03:48 AM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Ok, then. Despite the huge "FBI Anti-Piracy Warning: Unauthorized copying is punishible under federal law" that is stamped on the back of a cd by the Federal Bureau of Investigation / Department of Justice" you still think it is legal? Do you think the same of a DVD that you copy? How about a book? Would you lump them into the same category as a CD? Don't they, like the electric company, have fixed costs (machinery) plus static costs of distribution, artwork, etc., plus more dynamic costs such as Big Box store discounts, printing, etc.? While I am glad to hear that you paid for SFV, to be honest, your argument makes no sense to me.
Do you think that the production costs of making a DVD, video game, computer OS/software or music are so different? Sure, some cost more, some cost less. Moral is that they all COST. Would you steal a CD from a store? I hope not (at your age...we ignore what we did when we were younger...heh). What possible difference could you make between going into a store and stealing a CD vs. downloading an illegal copy? It is easier?! How about that DVD question. I have been in many a city were you can buy perfect pirate copies on the street. While I can buy it for pennies, is it right? Upstairs I have a couple of Rolex watches I bought in Brazil for about $10USD. Those are certainly fakes but it is a tangible good that someone (typically poor) took time to construct. I would never be able to afford (or want) a Rolex in any case. However, did I steal from Rolex because I bought a knock-off? No. I'd never EVER buy one. Downloading a CD, though, hits closer to home. Rolex won't go out of business because I bought a fake watch. A certain band might not be able to pay bills if their cds don't sell. Pay to support your favorite bands, is my point. The Justin B. / boyband machine will roll us otherwise.
Parting thought? When you "import" a store-bought CD to your harddrive using Media Player you are probably importing in WMV format. Lossy, IOW. No matter. If you legally own the recording, you are fine. The people who download without ever having once paid for the music are both engaging in illegal activities as well as damaging the genre of music we love. Low sales and those bands will go to no-name labels and then disappear. Bieber effect. Pop sells. Metal doesn't. (Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM)
Head banger wrote:
lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
guidogodoy wrote:
Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
Head banger wrote:
the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
guidogodoy wrote:
You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
Head banger wrote:
See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
guidogodoy wrote:
Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
Head banger wrote:
I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
guidogodoy wrote:
First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
Head banger wrote:
Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 12:06:35 AM
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:43:18 AM
Edited at: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:36:57 PM
[guidogodoy] Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:35:51 AM
I've seen pictures of you both. I prefer to block this image from my mind and get back on topic.
SO, who has bought any new CDs lately!
isnt that what the internet is for (except the almost part?)
DemonCat wrote:
It's was worth saying to see what kind of response I'd get. To actually contribute in a conversation here again was nice. I believe I almost had an orgasm! (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 6:42:39 PM)
guidogodoy wrote:
No. Technically you are not the complete "owner" of it. You do not own the intellectual property rights nor copyright to it. You basically bought a license for private, personal use. It is not "yours" to give as a gift.
Nice theory, though. You best read up on RIAA law while you can. I don't think you'll be able to access a computer once they finish with you. www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php
DemonCat wrote:
My response to the anti-piracy warning issued by the FBI is this: I bought the cd, dvd etc. I'm the owner of it and all content on it. I therefore "authorize" myself to be able to share it with the world. I do so as a "gift". (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 12:03:48 AM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Ok, then. Despite the huge "FBI Anti-Piracy Warning: Unauthorized copying is punishible under federal law" that is stamped on the back of a cd by the Federal Bureau of Investigation / Department of Justice" you still think it is legal? Do you think the same of a DVD that you copy? How about a book? Would you lump them into the same category as a CD? Don't they, like the electric company, have fixed costs (machinery) plus static costs of distribution, artwork, etc., plus more dynamic costs such as Big Box store discounts, printing, etc.? While I am glad to hear that you paid for SFV, to be honest, your argument makes no sense to me.
Do you think that the production costs of making a DVD, video game, computer OS/software or music are so different? Sure, some cost more, some cost less. Moral is that they all COST. Would you steal a CD from a store? I hope not (at your age...we ignore what we did when we were younger...heh). What possible difference could you make between going into a store and stealing a CD vs. downloading an illegal copy? It is easier?! How about that DVD question. I have been in many a city were you can buy perfect pirate copies on the street. While I can buy it for pennies, is it right? Upstairs I have a couple of Rolex watches I bought in Brazil for about $10USD. Those are certainly fakes but it is a tangible good that someone (typically poor) took time to construct. I would never be able to afford (or want) a Rolex in any case. However, did I steal from Rolex because I bought a knock-off? No. I'd never EVER buy one. Downloading a CD, though, hits closer to home. Rolex won't go out of business because I bought a fake watch. A certain band might not be able to pay bills if their cds don't sell. Pay to support your favorite bands, is my point. The Justin B. / boyband machine will roll us otherwise.
Parting thought? When you "import" a store-bought CD to your harddrive using Media Player you are probably importing in WMV format. Lossy, IOW. No matter. If you legally own the recording, you are fine. The people who download without ever having once paid for the music are both engaging in illegal activities as well as damaging the genre of music we love. Low sales and those bands will go to no-name labels and then disappear. Bieber effect. Pop sells. Metal doesn't. (Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM)
Head banger wrote:
lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
guidogodoy wrote:
Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
Head banger wrote:
the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
guidogodoy wrote:
You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
Head banger wrote:
See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
guidogodoy wrote:
Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
Head banger wrote:
I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
guidogodoy wrote:
First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
Head banger wrote:
Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 12:06:35 AM
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:43:18 AM
Edited at: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:36:57 PM
[Head banger] Tuesday, November 20, 2012 10:16:12 PM
isnt that what the internet is for (except the almost part?)
It's was worth saying to see what kind of response I'd get. To actually contribute in a conversation here again was nice. I believe I almost had an orgasm! (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 6:42:39 PM)
guidogodoy wrote:
No. Technically you are not the complete "owner" of it. You do not own the intellectual property rights nor copyright to it. You basically bought a license for private, personal use. It is not "yours" to give as a gift.
Nice theory, though. You best read up on RIAA law while you can. I don't think you'll be able to access a computer once they finish with you. www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php
DemonCat wrote:
My response to the anti-piracy warning issued by the FBI is this: I bought the cd, dvd etc. I'm the owner of it and all content on it. I therefore "authorize" myself to be able to share it with the world. I do so as a "gift". (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 12:03:48 AM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Ok, then. Despite the huge "FBI Anti-Piracy Warning: Unauthorized copying is punishible under federal law" that is stamped on the back of a cd by the Federal Bureau of Investigation / Department of Justice" you still think it is legal? Do you think the same of a DVD that you copy? How about a book? Would you lump them into the same category as a CD? Don't they, like the electric company, have fixed costs (machinery) plus static costs of distribution, artwork, etc., plus more dynamic costs such as Big Box store discounts, printing, etc.? While I am glad to hear that you paid for SFV, to be honest, your argument makes no sense to me.
Do you think that the production costs of making a DVD, video game, computer OS/software or music are so different? Sure, some cost more, some cost less. Moral is that they all COST. Would you steal a CD from a store? I hope not (at your age...we ignore what we did when we were younger...heh). What possible difference could you make between going into a store and stealing a CD vs. downloading an illegal copy? It is easier?! How about that DVD question. I have been in many a city were you can buy perfect pirate copies on the street. While I can buy it for pennies, is it right? Upstairs I have a couple of Rolex watches I bought in Brazil for about $10USD. Those are certainly fakes but it is a tangible good that someone (typically poor) took time to construct. I would never be able to afford (or want) a Rolex in any case. However, did I steal from Rolex because I bought a knock-off? No. I'd never EVER buy one. Downloading a CD, though, hits closer to home. Rolex won't go out of business because I bought a fake watch. A certain band might not be able to pay bills if their cds don't sell. Pay to support your favorite bands, is my point. The Justin B. / boyband machine will roll us otherwise.
Parting thought? When you "import" a store-bought CD to your harddrive using Media Player you are probably importing in WMV format. Lossy, IOW. No matter. If you legally own the recording, you are fine. The people who download without ever having once paid for the music are both engaging in illegal activities as well as damaging the genre of music we love. Low sales and those bands will go to no-name labels and then disappear. Bieber effect. Pop sells. Metal doesn't. (Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM)
Head banger wrote:
lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
guidogodoy wrote:
Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
Head banger wrote:
the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
guidogodoy wrote:
You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
Head banger wrote:
See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
guidogodoy wrote:
Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
Head banger wrote:
I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
guidogodoy wrote:
First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
Head banger wrote:
Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 12:06:35 AM
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:43:18 AM
Edited at: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:36:57 PM
[guidogodoy] Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:59:25 PM
I can't tell you how glad I am to read the word "almost" in your obviously joking response! LOL!
It's was worth saying to see what kind of response I'd get. To actually contribute in a conversation here again was nice. I believe I almost had an orgasm! (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 6:42:39 PM)
guidogodoy wrote:
No. Technically you are not the complete "owner" of it. You do not own the intellectual property rights nor copyright to it. You basically bought a license for private, personal use. It is not "yours" to give as a gift.
Nice theory, though. You best read up on RIAA law while you can. I don't think you'll be able to access a computer once they finish with you. www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php
DemonCat wrote:
My response to the anti-piracy warning issued by the FBI is this: I bought the cd, dvd etc. I'm the owner of it and all content on it. I therefore "authorize" myself to be able to share it with the world. I do so as a "gift". (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 12:03:48 AM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Ok, then. Despite the huge "FBI Anti-Piracy Warning: Unauthorized copying is punishible under federal law" that is stamped on the back of a cd by the Federal Bureau of Investigation / Department of Justice" you still think it is legal? Do you think the same of a DVD that you copy? How about a book? Would you lump them into the same category as a CD? Don't they, like the electric company, have fixed costs (machinery) plus static costs of distribution, artwork, etc., plus more dynamic costs such as Big Box store discounts, printing, etc.? While I am glad to hear that you paid for SFV, to be honest, your argument makes no sense to me.
Do you think that the production costs of making a DVD, video game, computer OS/software or music are so different? Sure, some cost more, some cost less. Moral is that they all COST. Would you steal a CD from a store? I hope not (at your age...we ignore what we did when we were younger...heh). What possible difference could you make between going into a store and stealing a CD vs. downloading an illegal copy? It is easier?! How about that DVD question. I have been in many a city were you can buy perfect pirate copies on the street. While I can buy it for pennies, is it right? Upstairs I have a couple of Rolex watches I bought in Brazil for about $10USD. Those are certainly fakes but it is a tangible good that someone (typically poor) took time to construct. I would never be able to afford (or want) a Rolex in any case. However, did I steal from Rolex because I bought a knock-off? No. I'd never EVER buy one. Downloading a CD, though, hits closer to home. Rolex won't go out of business because I bought a fake watch. A certain band might not be able to pay bills if their cds don't sell. Pay to support your favorite bands, is my point. The Justin B. / boyband machine will roll us otherwise.
Parting thought? When you "import" a store-bought CD to your harddrive using Media Player you are probably importing in WMV format. Lossy, IOW. No matter. If you legally own the recording, you are fine. The people who download without ever having once paid for the music are both engaging in illegal activities as well as damaging the genre of music we love. Low sales and those bands will go to no-name labels and then disappear. Bieber effect. Pop sells. Metal doesn't. (Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM)
Head banger wrote:
lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
guidogodoy wrote:
Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
Head banger wrote:
the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
guidogodoy wrote:
You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
Head banger wrote:
See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
guidogodoy wrote:
Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
Head banger wrote:
I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
guidogodoy wrote:
First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
Head banger wrote:
Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 12:06:35 AM
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:43:18 AM
Edited at: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:36:57 PM
[DemonCat] Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:38:18 PM
Kiss- Monster
[DemonCat] Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:31:43 PM
It's was worth saying to see what kind of response I'd get. To actually contribute in a conversation here again was nice. I believe I almost had an orgasm! [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 6:42:39 PM)
guidogodoy wrote:
No. Technically you are not the complete "owner" of it. You do not own the intellectual property rights nor copyright to it. You basically bought a license for private, personal use. It is not "yours" to give as a gift.
Nice theory, though. You best read up on RIAA law while you can. I don't think you'll be able to access a computer once they finish with you. www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php
DemonCat wrote:
My response to the anti-piracy warning issued by the FBI is this: I bought the cd, dvd etc. I'm the owner of it and all content on it. I therefore "authorize" myself to be able to share it with the world. I do so as a "gift". (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 12:03:48 AM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Ok, then. Despite the huge "FBI Anti-Piracy Warning: Unauthorized copying is punishible under federal law" that is stamped on the back of a cd by the Federal Bureau of Investigation / Department of Justice" you still think it is legal? Do you think the same of a DVD that you copy? How about a book? Would you lump them into the same category as a CD? Don't they, like the electric company, have fixed costs (machinery) plus static costs of distribution, artwork, etc., plus more dynamic costs such as Big Box store discounts, printing, etc.? While I am glad to hear that you paid for SFV, to be honest, your argument makes no sense to me.
Do you think that the production costs of making a DVD, video game, computer OS/software or music are so different? Sure, some cost more, some cost less. Moral is that they all COST. Would you steal a CD from a store? I hope not (at your age...we ignore what we did when we were younger...heh). What possible difference could you make between going into a store and stealing a CD vs. downloading an illegal copy? It is easier?! How about that DVD question. I have been in many a city were you can buy perfect pirate copies on the street. While I can buy it for pennies, is it right? Upstairs I have a couple of Rolex watches I bought in Brazil for about $10USD. Those are certainly fakes but it is a tangible good that someone (typically poor) took time to construct. I would never be able to afford (or want) a Rolex in any case. However, did I steal from Rolex because I bought a knock-off? No. I'd never EVER buy one. Downloading a CD, though, hits closer to home. Rolex won't go out of business because I bought a fake watch. A certain band might not be able to pay bills if their cds don't sell. Pay to support your favorite bands, is my point. The Justin B. / boyband machine will roll us otherwise.
Parting thought? When you "import" a store-bought CD to your harddrive using Media Player you are probably importing in WMV format. Lossy, IOW. No matter. If you legally own the recording, you are fine. The people who download without ever having once paid for the music are both engaging in illegal activities as well as damaging the genre of music we love. Low sales and those bands will go to no-name labels and then disappear. Bieber effect. Pop sells. Metal doesn't. (Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM)
Head banger wrote:
lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
guidogodoy wrote:
Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
Head banger wrote:
the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
guidogodoy wrote:
You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
Head banger wrote:
See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
guidogodoy wrote:
Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
Head banger wrote:
I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
guidogodoy wrote:
First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
Head banger wrote:
Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 12:06:35 AM
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:43:18 AM
Edited at: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:36:57 PM
[hellrider 31038] Monday, November 19, 2012 5:34:49 PM
THE ONES I GOT YESTERDAY
AND I ALSO GOT A KEYCHAIN SPACE LAZER GUN WHILE I WAS THERE
SO DONT FUC? WITH ME.LOL
[Vaillant 3.0] Saturday, November 17, 2012 6:14:52 PM
I love the whole experience of the cd,booklet,artwork and all that comes with it!
There's alot of cool stuff in the CD booklet that people who only download the music (legally or otherwise) end up missing. For example, the booklet in Motörhead's "The World is Yours" album contains some cool-looking and humorous sketches. And anyone who only downloaded Accept's "Blood of the Nations" album wouldn't know that all the band members have Type A blood.
I always buy CD's,i cannot stand to download it!
I love the whole experience of the cd,booklet,artwork and all that comes with it!
We had a record store here that i use to buy all my cds at and the guy that ran it said i was very rare person cause i still liked to buy cds!
He said ppl rather download stuff off the net etc etc!
Plus i am an album listener not a song,so i listen to albums as a whole from track 1 to the last track!
And i still listen to my cd discmann with me skullcandy headphones!
The only time i use mp3 player is workin out,going for a walk,travelling or riding the bus!
My friends laugh at me cause i don't have an ipod and all that other techie shit that the public seems to enjoy!
Fuck that shit,i'm old school!
Cheers everydbody!
Rock Hard Ride Free!
Buy a cd,ticket or a shirt,support your favorite bands!
[The Metallian] Saturday, November 17, 2012 4:14:34 PM
I always buy CD's,i cannot stand to download it!
I love the whole experience of the cd,booklet,artwork and all that comes with it!
We had a record store here that i use to buy all my cds at and the guy that ran it said i was very rare person cause i still liked to buy cds!
He said ppl rather download stuff off the net etc etc!
Plus i am an album listener not a song,so i listen to albums as a whole from track 1 to the last track!
And i still listen to my cd discmann with me skullcandy headphones!
The only time i use mp3 player is workin out,going for a walk,travelling or riding the bus!
My friends laugh at me cause i don't have an ipod and all that other techie shit that the public seems to enjoy!
Fuck that shit,i'm old school!
Cheers everydbody!
Rock Hard Ride Free!
Buy a cd,ticket or a shirt,support your favorite bands!
[guidogodoy] Saturday, November 17, 2012 12:38:31 PM
My original point was that downloading DID lead to me actually buying a CD. My point was that the system worked exactly as it should as I wouldn't have heard the whole CD any other way. However, I must say that I am an anomaly. The great majority illegally download thinking it "their right" to do so. The band somehow owes them as they supported them in the past. Certainly we've all heard of "bloodsucking record labels" that looks for any way to make money off a band. Bad contracts, poor percentage of "the take" of a show, etc. Now the model has flipped on its head. With relatively little production cost and with everyone with a little knowhow able to produce quality-sounding recordings in their home studios, the Industry now has to look for other means of replacing that lost revenue. Quickest way? Concert tickets, merchandise and food / drink in a concert. Bands are now on almost perpetual tours to make enough money to continue their line of work. Sadly, that is going to end up in the premature death of what might be a lot of good bands.
