| [Deep Freeze] Tuesday, April 14, 2009 8:05:07 AM | |
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You know, it is good to come home and see a stirring debate waiting for me!! HA!!!!!!!!!!!! I am fairly certain that everyone (or nearly everyone) here knows my feelings regarding education. There are many opinions and varying schools of thought on what higher education means in this day and age but, I remain steadfast in my position that a college education is still as important today as it has always been.
There are positions that are filled by people that are not formally educated. There are people that are incredibly intelligent who do not have college credentials. In short, there is always an exception to the rule. However, with the number of folks that are looking for work nowadays, the employee-pool has taken on quite a different look than it has had in years past. Even very bright, intellectual people are out of work. When this occurs, one's education becomes increasingly important. You see, I do understand what Tim was trying to say. You want the "right" person in the position, not always the most educated. But what happens when you have more than one "right" person? What criteria is used to further define just who is most "right"?
Of course, a lot of it has to do with the job at hand. We all know that different personalities handle different jobs with different styles. Depending on what is expected, one can even further narrow the choices. It really depends on the industry and the job description. I cannot speak for those industries with which I have no experience but I do know about mine. The financial industry, for all it's current deprecation, is still an industry made up of highly skilled, highly educated individuals. If I were to interview subjects for a position and I found that I had more than one who appeared qualified, I would absolutely look at their educational background. Absolutely. An education says a lot about a person. It is not just about being "book smart". It is about dedication and perserverence. It is about hard work and ability to achieve. Sacrifice and focus. Obtaining a degree is only part of it.
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| [kiamat] Tuesday, April 14, 2009 5:46:26 AM | |
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Thats an attitude I wish companies had more of in the UK- the government upped the number of people going to university so much that a degree isn't worth much at all, you need at least a masters to be well qualified.
But then again, university isn't just a means to a job, people go there just because they want to learn stuff as well.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by TIMBONI from Tuesday, April 14, 2009 12:03:31 AM)| |  | TIMBONI wrote: | | True that companies are always looking for the cheaper option, as long as it can acheive the same goal. And yes, I do understand that there is always some kind of training involved at a new job since every company has it's own ways of doing things. But just think. How much time, effort and money is spent obtaining degrees in order to do a job that could be learned through on the job training and getting paid, not paying, to learn it. Personally, I believe that the job has either got to be something that you love or be worth a huge amount of money to bother with higher education these days. By the time you're done spending the time getting the education ( and not earning money on the job ) and then repaying all the loans taken to get the education how much is the degree holder actually making versus all the money lost during the process ? |
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| [paorcamp] Tuesday, April 14, 2009 12:20:09 AM | |
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I'm sorry tim...but you should also take into account that this is the third world(my country) and things are a bit different here
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by TIMBONI from Tuesday, April 14, 2009 12:03:31 AM)| | | TIMBONI wrote: | | True that companies are always looking for the cheaper option, as long as it can acheive the same goal. And yes, I do understand that there is always some kind of training involved at a new job since every company has it's own ways of doing things. But just think. How much time, effort and money is spent obtaining degrees in order to do a job that could be learned through on the job training and getting paid, not paying, to learn it. Personally, I believe that the job has either got to be something that you love or be worth a huge amount of money to bother with higher education these days. By the time you're done spending the time getting the education ( and not earning money on the job ) and then repaying all the loans taken to get the education how much is the degree holder actually making versus all the money lost during the process ? |
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| [paorcamp] Tuesday, April 14, 2009 12:11:47 AM | |
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well...you got an interesting point...but...at least in my case I'm not paying since I have a scholarship...and I also need a degree to be acredited as an oficial translator...but...what's the point of having a job if you don't have the most remote idea of what you are doing...and of course they do not pay very well if you don't have a degree...but you wouldn't get that job if you have a degree because there are many people in the line that would be asking for a lower salary...you see...so people are being treated as objects, and those cheaper to maintain are the chosen ones...so there's not a big deal on working instead of studying if your earnings are going to be miserable...
I just think it's complicated to explain...
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by TIMBONI from Tuesday, April 14, 2009 12:03:31 AM)| | | TIMBONI wrote: | | True that companies are always looking for the cheaper option, as long as it can acheive the same goal. And yes, I do understand that there is always some kind of training involved at a new job since every company has it's own ways of doing things. But just think. How much time, effort and money is spent obtaining degrees in order to do a job that could be learned through on the job training and getting paid, not paying, to learn it. Personally, I believe that the job has either got to be something that you love or be worth a huge amount of money to bother with higher education these days. By the time you're done spending the time getting the education ( and not earning money on the job ) and then repaying all the loans taken to get the education how much is the degree holder actually making versus all the money lost during the process ? |
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| [TIMBONI] Tuesday, April 14, 2009 12:03:31 AM | |
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True that companies are always looking for the cheaper option, as long as it can acheive the same goal. And yes, I do understand that there is always some kind of training involved at a new job since every company has it's own ways of doing things. But just think. How much time, effort and money is spent obtaining degrees in order to do a job that could be learned through on the job training and getting paid, not paying, to learn it. Personally, I believe that the job has either got to be something that you love or be worth a huge amount of money to bother with higher education these days. By the time you're done spending the time getting the education ( and not earning money on the job ) and then repaying all the loans taken to get the education how much is the degree holder actually making versus all the money lost during the process ? |
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| [paorcamp] Tuesday, April 14, 2009 12:01:29 AM | |
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see ya....maybe tomorrow because it's 11 pm here...enjoy ur meal...
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Becks from Monday, April 13, 2009 11:59:04 PM)| | | Becks wrote: | | All sadly true, Timboni and Paor. Sad but true.
Anyways, I'm off to cook my dinner, having curry tonight, should cheer me up lol! Nice chatting, I'll be back later on probably, it's only 5pm here haha! But I am hungry as and need food.
| | | paorcamp wrote: | | of course...I agree...that's what universities here pretend, to prepare people for their possible jobs (at least here)...but companies argue that they don't spend the same because during training workers are not being paid...and as I mentioned they are cheaper that a well prepared student...and they're saving more money during a month of training with a nonprepared worker than during a week with a well prepared worker...you see...they are not stupid.... (Quoting Message by TIMBONI from Monday, April 13, 2009 11:47:11 PM)
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TIMBONI wrote: |
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| Not to insult anyone and their pursuit of education, but experience is extremely valuable. I have encountered many "book smart" people who couldn't common sense their way out of a wet paper bag. The job pays what the job pays. If I'm going to hire someone to do it, I want someone who can do it right and do it right away. If I have to train them, they are not qualified for the job. |
Edited at: Monday, April 13, 2009 11:58:26 PM |
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| [Becks] Monday, April 13, 2009 11:59:04 PM | |
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All sadly true, Timboni and Paor. Sad but true.
Anyways, I'm off to cook my dinner, having curry tonight, should cheer me up lol! Nice chatting, I'll be back later on probably, it's only 5pm here haha! But I am hungry as and need food.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by paorcamp from Monday, April 13, 2009 11:56:25 PM)| | | paorcamp wrote: | | of course...I agree...that's what universities here pretend, to prepare people for their possible jobs (at least here)...but companies argue that they don't spend the same because during training workers are not being paid...and as I mentioned they are cheaper that a well prepared student...and they're saving more money during a month of training with a nonprepared worker than during a week with a well prepared worker...you see...they are not stupid.... (Quoting Message by TIMBONI from Monday, April 13, 2009 11:47:11 PM)
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TIMBONI wrote: |
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| Not to insult anyone and their pursuit of education, but experience is extremely valuable. I have encountered many "book smart" people who couldn't common sense their way out of a wet paper bag. The job pays what the job pays. If I'm going to hire someone to do it, I want someone who can do it right and do it right away. If I have to train them, they are not qualified for the job. |
Edited at: Monday, April 13, 2009 11:58:26 PM |
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| [paorcamp] Monday, April 13, 2009 11:56:25 PM | |
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of course...I agree...that's what universities here pretend, to prepare people for their possible jobs (at least here)...but companies argue that they don't spend the same because during training workers are not being paid...and as I mentioned they are cheaper that a well prepared student...and they're saving more money during a month of training with a nonprepared worker than during a week with a well prepared worker...you see...they are not stupid.... [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by TIMBONI from Monday, April 13, 2009 11:47:11 PM)
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TIMBONI wrote: |
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| Not to insult anyone and their pursuit of education, but experience is extremely valuable. I have encountered many "book smart" people who couldn't common sense their way out of a wet paper bag. The job pays what the job pays. If I'm going to hire someone to do it, I want someone who can do it right and do it right away. If I have to train them, they are not qualified for the job. |
Edited at: Monday, April 13, 2009 11:58:26 PM |
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| [Becks] Monday, April 13, 2009 11:51:47 PM | |
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In my area, science, it's a tricky subject cos they want people with laboratory experience (which we all get through our studies, a large portion of time is spent in the lab), but every lab is different with new processes/equipment to learn, so it's almost an oxymoron. Ah well, sometimes you have to start right at the bottom to work your way up.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by TIMBONI from Monday, April 13, 2009 11:47:11 PM)| | | TIMBONI wrote: | | | Not to insult anyone and their pursuit of education, but experience is extremely valuable. I have encountered many "book smart" people who couldn't common sense their way out of a wet paper bag. The job pays what the job pays. If I'm going to hire someone to do it, I want someone who can do it right and do it right away. If I have to train them, they are not qualified for the job. |
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| [TIMBONI] Monday, April 13, 2009 11:47:11 PM | |
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Not to insult anyone and their pursuit of education, but experience is extremely valuable. I have encountered many "book smart" people who couldn't common sense their way out of a wet paper bag. The job pays what the job pays. If I'm going to hire someone to do it, I want someone who can do it right and do it right away. If I have to train them, they are not qualified for the job.
Unfortunately a degree just doesn't mean what it used to. There was a time when schools only excepted the exceptional and the degrees they earned reflected the hard work and dedication it took to obtain them. Now it seems that anyone who can afford to go can go. As with most things these days, mediocrity is the norm. It was deemed necessary to find ways for all to attend college and obtain degrees. This cheapened their value to the point that the degree alone meant little compared to actual experience doing the job one is applying for. It's a shame that the truly intelligent and hard working get the same degree as the mediocre and there is no way to tell the difference since employers do not have access to grades and actual achievement during their schooling.
Edited at: Monday, April 13, 2009 11:57:09 PM |
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| [Becks] Monday, April 13, 2009 11:42:23 PM | |
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Man that sucks Paor! Companies are always looking for the quick fix. Experience is valued more than a degree these days cos then the company won't need to do even a little bit of training, which makes it hard for everyone else.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by paorcamp from Monday, April 13, 2009 11:38:40 PM)| | | paorcamp wrote: | | my best wishes...I hope you do...I know it's hard to get a job...I hear about that every day in the news...or from my relatives or my older classmates...but hardworking is the key to succeed...you know that...and there's nothing else we can do...here we have the problem that many private institutions offer some degrees by taking expensive courses...they say they'll make you speak English as a native speaker and people who want everything fast and easy are paying for them...then for companies it's easier and cheaper to hire someone who doesn't have a degree form a university...that's the main problem we face here...people are not well prepared nowadays and that's the dream of any greedy institution...
| | | Becks wrote: | | Well on the 4th of May I start at a part time job in the sensory division of Fonterra. Fonterra is arguably the largest dairy product company in the world, and in sensory I will be tasting dairy products and testing texture, flavour etc. Very few hours a week, but it has been very difficult getting any job, even though I have a science degree. We moved to where we are now in December but were away for several weeks, and it's taken forever just to get this part time job. The main thing is now I have a foot in the door and can hopefully move upwards and around the place!
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| [paorcamp] Monday, April 13, 2009 11:38:40 PM | |
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my best wishes...I hope you do...I know it's hard to get a job...I hear about that every day in the news...or from my relatives or my older classmates...but hardworking is the key to succeed...you know that...and there's nothing else we can do...here we have the problem that many private institutions offer some degrees by taking expensive courses...they say they'll make you speak English as a native speaker and people who want everything fast and easy are paying for them...then for companies it's easier and cheaper to hire someone who doesn't have a degree form a university...that's the main problem we face here...people are not well prepared nowadays and that's the dream of any greedy institution...
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Becks from Monday, April 13, 2009 11:25:17 PM)| | | Becks wrote: | | Well on the 4th of May I start at a part time job in the sensory division of Fonterra. Fonterra is arguably the largest dairy product company in the world, and in sensory I will be tasting dairy products and testing texture, flavour etc. Very few hours a week, but it has been very difficult getting any job, even though I have a science degree. We moved to where we are now in December but were away for several weeks, and it's taken forever just to get this part time job. The main thing is now I have a foot in the door and can hopefully move upwards and around the place!
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| [Becks] Monday, April 13, 2009 11:25:17 PM | |
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Well on the 4th of May I start at a part time job in the sensory division of Fonterra. Fonterra is arguably the largest dairy product company in the world, and in sensory I will be tasting dairy products and testing texture, flavour etc. Very few hours a week, but it has been very difficult getting any job, even though I have a science degree. We moved to where we are now in December but were away for several weeks, and it's taken forever just to get this part time job. The main thing is now I have a foot in the door and can hopefully move upwards and around the place!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by paorcamp from Monday, April 13, 2009 11:22:38 PM) |
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| [paorcamp] Monday, April 13, 2009 11:22:38 PM | |
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 thanks my friend...I hope I would...I'm working hard and most of it is thanks to videogames and judas priest (metal music in gral)....jaja...and what about you??I don't know what you do...
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Becks from Monday, April 13, 2009 11:17:54 PM)| | | Becks wrote: | | That's very cool Paor! And I have to say, your English is fantastic  I'm sure you'll do well down that path!
| | | paorcamp wrote: | | well...I'm studying English...that's the name of the career...its minor is translation (there are several available)...you see...I want to become a translator...or so they say
| | | Becks wrote: | | Very wise words, Paor, and you are right on all fronts. It'll all be ok, it's just hard news to take when one is already so excited.
Wow you've been on the go all day! I know what you mean about the cursing a lot haha, I was like that too when I was studying. What are you studying??
| | | paorcamp wrote: | | I enjoy the company I must say....hi becks...well...in this situation the only thing I could think of is that both of you are not in a good mood (obviously)...and that it wasn't easy for him to tell you that he won't come next week....I also have to say that you can be sure he loves you because he left the conversation before any of you could say cutting words and get involved in a senseless discussion (I'm sorry about my grammar and other mistakes but it's 10 pm here and I've been awake since 6 or 7 am)...I also have to say that both of you are having a very hard time....but the only thing you could do is to wait until things clear up....I know you miss him a lot, and he misses you too...but everything will turn out all right
regarding me....It's been a long day as I said...and since I went back to college after a week off I've been doing a lot (reading, studying, cursing...yes...cursing a lot!!) and it's until now that I have a free time...well...actually I'm supposed to be sleeping by now since I have to wake up at 4 30 am...but I can't go to bed without paying a visit to this neighborhood...
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| [Becks] Monday, April 13, 2009 11:17:54 PM | |
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That's very cool Paor! And I have to say, your English is fantastic I'm sure you'll do well down that path!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by paorcamp from Monday, April 13, 2009 11:13:06 PM)| | | paorcamp wrote: | | well...I'm studying English...that's the name of the career...its minor is translation (there are several available)...you see...I want to become a translator...or so they say
| | | Becks wrote: | | Very wise words, Paor, and you are right on all fronts. It'll all be ok, it's just hard news to take when one is already so excited.
Wow you've been on the go all day! I know what you mean about the cursing a lot haha, I was like that too when I was studying. What are you studying??
| | | paorcamp wrote: | | I enjoy the company I must say....hi becks...well...in this situation the only thing I could think of is that both of you are not in a good mood (obviously)...and that it wasn't easy for him to tell you that he won't come next week....I also have to say that you can be sure he loves you because he left the conversation before any of you could say cutting words and get involved in a senseless discussion (I'm sorry about my grammar and other mistakes but it's 10 pm here and I've been awake since 6 or 7 am)...I also have to say that both of you are having a very hard time....but the only thing you could do is to wait until things clear up....I know you miss him a lot, and he misses you too...but everything will turn out all right
regarding me....It's been a long day as I said...and since I went back to college after a week off I've been doing a lot (reading, studying, cursing...yes...cursing a lot!!) and it's until now that I have a free time...well...actually I'm supposed to be sleeping by now since I have to wake up at 4 30 am...but I can't go to bed without paying a visit to this neighborhood...
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| [paorcamp] Monday, April 13, 2009 11:13:06 PM | |
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well...I'm studying English...that's the name of the career...its minor is translation (there are several available)...you see...I want to become a translator...or so they say
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Becks from Monday, April 13, 2009 11:06:13 PM)| | | Becks wrote: | | Very wise words, Paor, and you are right on all fronts. It'll all be ok, it's just hard news to take when one is already so excited.
Wow you've been on the go all day! I know what you mean about the cursing a lot haha, I was like that too when I was studying. What are you studying??
| | | paorcamp wrote: | | I enjoy the company I must say....hi becks...well...in this situation the only thing I could think of is that both of you are not in a good mood (obviously)...and that it wasn't easy for him to tell you that he won't come next week....I also have to say that you can be sure he loves you because he left the conversation before any of you could say cutting words and get involved in a senseless discussion (I'm sorry about my grammar and other mistakes but it's 10 pm here and I've been awake since 6 or 7 am)...I also have to say that both of you are having a very hard time....but the only thing you could do is to wait until things clear up....I know you miss him a lot, and he misses you too...but everything will turn out all right
regarding me....It's been a long day as I said...and since I went back to college after a week off I've been doing a lot (reading, studying, cursing...yes...cursing a lot!!) and it's until now that I have a free time...well...actually I'm supposed to be sleeping by now since I have to wake up at 4 30 am...but I can't go to bed without paying a visit to this neighborhood...
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| [Becks] Monday, April 13, 2009 11:06:13 PM | |
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Very wise words, Paor, and you are right on all fronts. It'll all be ok, it's just hard news to take when one is already so excited.
Wow you've been on the go all day! I know what you mean about the cursing a lot haha, I was like that too when I was studying. What are you studying??
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by paorcamp from Monday, April 13, 2009 11:02:45 PM)| | | paorcamp wrote: | | I enjoy the company I must say....hi becks...well...in this situation the only thing I could think of is that both of you are not in a good mood (obviously)...and that it wasn't easy for him to tell you that he won't come next week....I also have to say that you can be sure he loves you because he left the conversation before any of you could say cutting words and get involved in a senseless discussion (I'm sorry about my grammar and other mistakes but it's 10 pm here and I've been awake since 6 or 7 am)...I also have to say that both of you are having a very hard time....but the only thing you could do is to wait until things clear up....I know you miss him a lot, and he misses you too...but everything will turn out all right
regarding me....It's been a long day as I said...and since I went back to college after a week off I've been doing a lot (reading, studying, cursing...yes...cursing a lot!!) and it's until now that I have a free time...well...actually I'm supposed to be sleeping by now since I have to wake up at 4 30 am...but I can't go to bed without paying a visit to this neighborhood...
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| [paorcamp] Monday, April 13, 2009 11:02:45 PM | |
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I enjoy the company I must say....hi becks...well...in this situation the only thing I could think of is that both of you are not in a good mood (obviously)...and that it wasn't easy for him to tell you that he won't come next week....I also have to say that you can be sure he loves you because he left the conversation before any of you could say cutting words and get involved in a senseless discussion (I'm sorry about my grammar and other mistakes but it's 10 pm here and I've been awake since 6 or 7 am)...I also have to say that both of you are having a very hard time....but the only thing you could do is to wait until things clear up....I know you miss him a lot, and he misses you too...but everything will turn out all right
regarding me....It's been a long day as I said...and since I went back to college after a week off I've been doing a lot (reading, studying, cursing...yes...cursing a lot!!) and it's until now that I have a free time...well...actually I'm supposed to be sleeping by now since I have to wake up at 4 30 am...but I can't go to bed without paying a visit to this neighborhood...
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Becks from Monday, April 13, 2009 10:51:02 PM) |
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| [Becks] Monday, April 13, 2009 10:51:02 PM | |
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| [paorcamp] Monday, April 13, 2009 10:41:05 PM | |
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yo...anybody here???
shit...it's been a long day and I couldn't make it earlier...not even before spapad went off to bed... |
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and he has NO IDEA why I am so upset about it. He said some stupid things on chat. Along the lines of 'Another week....whoa', I told him to be very careful what he says to me right now and he was like I'm not going to talk to you like this and left. He has no clue why it is so awful for me.