| [icecreamman] Monday, February 09, 2009 7:12:11 PM | |
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| Hey, Jack Black is not in Metallica's video game. he-he Brutal Legend |
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| [hellrider 31038] Monday, February 09, 2009 6:16:21 PM | |
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well i have 3 words for the grammys yesterday
CROCK OF SHI? |
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| [kiamat] Monday, February 09, 2009 5:13:53 PM | |
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As a fan of Priest, Dragonforce and Metallica, I've realised that in the end it didn't matter too much to me who won- the fact that they all got nominated and therefore recognised for their achievements is enough. After all, you can't please everybody- and we've already established that the Grammy organisers have made worse choices in the past . (Though as an extremely devoted Dragonforce fan had they won I would have been through the roof- I just knew that, sadly, they hadn't much chance against the big boys.)
Edited at: Monday, February 09, 2009 5:14:25 PM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Monday, February 09, 2009 5:04:08 PM | |
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Arrrggghh! OK, once again, I will explain myself. (I seem to do that a lot around here) My comment regarding substance had nothing to do with drugs, love songs or any other particular topic!! Ye GODS!! I was referring to the lack of ability, musicianship and/or talent required to "write" and "sing" such drivel. And moreso when it comes to what passes for Pop/Hip Hop "music". As I have said countless times, the ability to rhyme a series of words in sequence and jump up and down to a "beat" (most often furnished by a recorded sound and NOT a musician) does NOT make one an "artist", much less a "musician"!!!!!! Further more, just when did it become an "art" to play a record??? I have seen multiple "artists" that claim to be "famous" DJ's. SO FRIGGIN WHAT??!?!?!? "Oh! Look at me!! I can put a record on a turntable and play it!! WOW!!! I am talented and a musician now!!" HUH???????
I have complained so many times about the lack of real musical talent in the world and it seems to get worse every year. Musicianship, to me, is actually being able to write music, play an instrument or sing on key! Putting a record on a mechanical device and pushing a button is NOT musicianship!! I did as much in my room at 10 years of age!! Had I any clue then that I was a pioneering artist, I should think I would have grabbed my record player and made my first million!! Little did I know that the NIMRODS we refer to as the "public" were going to be amazed by such a craft! I missed out on the "pet rock", too. |
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| [_strat_] Monday, February 09, 2009 4:05:02 PM | |
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Probably. They are a very perspective young band. They need encouragement. I sure hope that we will be hearing a LOT more from them
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Monday, February 09, 2009 3:57:58 PM)| |  | Head banger wrote: | | Dragonforce might make more use out of the grammy than Priest, but none of the bands there realy needs it.
| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Well... Ive been thinking. I guess that its to each his own here. I guess theres plenty of Dragonforce fans jumping ten feet in the air, saying exactly the same things about Metallica as are being said here... IDK, if Priest or Dragonforce won, wouldnt the Metallica fans be doing the same? So... Whos right here? Lets face it, there were plenty of competitors in the two fields where Priest appeared - and only two prizes. As it happens Metallica took both of them. Ok. Someone had to win. As has been said before, Priest dont need the Grammy. Dragonforce dont either. Metallica the least of all, if truth be told. They will all go on making music for their fans - as is right. Because at the end of the day, its not what the people who give grammies like - its what fans like.
IDK about Metallicas twists and turns. I never paid much attention to them. Slayer and Megadeth - thats all the Trash I need. But... Metallica are, if we get down to it, probably the most succesfull band in commercial terms. Like I said before - if a non-metal fan thinks of metal, one of the first associations he/she will get is Metallica. Maybe, they do deserve that prize more than Priest do - it is after all about marketing, as has also been said before. Metallica are better at it than Priest. As for music... Well, we like Priest, obviously, thats why were here. Someone else likes Metallica. If we did a vote, Metallica fans would probably heavily outnumber us. Personal preferences.
Oh, and I have to comment on the issue of "substance" and "idiots who listen to Britney Spears"... I never saw any more substance in "Thunder road" than Ive seen in "Hit me Baby one more time". One song is about driving, the other about teenage love. Different topics, thats what it is... Maybe were just tired of listening to songs about love? I sure am... Thats why I listen to metal. I think Rob said once that there are too many love songs on the radio... Well, he was right. Im sick of it, so I listen to other stuff. Metal stuff. Love songs, but outnumbered by songs about monsters, mysticism, battles, stuff like that... BUT, I would never call someone who listens to Britney an idiot. Now, Britney herself is another story, but her fans... Well, we cant say that all Priest fans are cool either. Just look at how many republicans we have here (j/k). |
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| [Head banger] Monday, February 09, 2009 3:57:58 PM | |
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Dragonforce might make more use out of the grammy than Priest, but none of the bands there realy needs it.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by _strat_ from Monday, February 09, 2009 3:45:25 PM)| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Well... Ive been thinking. I guess that its to each his own here. I guess theres plenty of Dragonforce fans jumping ten feet in the air, saying exactly the same things about Metallica as are being said here... IDK, if Priest or Dragonforce won, wouldnt the Metallica fans be doing the same? So... Whos right here? Lets face it, there were plenty of competitors in the two fields where Priest appeared - and only two prizes. As it happens Metallica took both of them. Ok. Someone had to win. As has been said before, Priest dont need the Grammy. Dragonforce dont either. Metallica the least of all, if truth be told. They will all go on making music for their fans - as is right. Because at the end of the day, its not what the people who give grammies like - its what fans like.
IDK about Metallicas twists and turns. I never paid much attention to them. Slayer and Megadeth - thats all the Trash I need. But... Metallica are, if we get down to it, probably the most succesfull band in commercial terms. Like I said before - if a non-metal fan thinks of metal, one of the first associations he/she will get is Metallica. Maybe, they do deserve that prize more than Priest do - it is after all about marketing, as has also been said before. Metallica are better at it than Priest. As for music... Well, we like Priest, obviously, thats why were here. Someone else likes Metallica. If we did a vote, Metallica fans would probably heavily outnumber us. Personal preferences.
Oh, and I have to comment on the issue of "substance" and "idiots who listen to Britney Spears"... I never saw any more substance in "Thunder road" than Ive seen in "Hit me Baby one more time". One song is about driving, the other about teenage love. Different topics, thats what it is... Maybe were just tired of listening to songs about love? I sure am... Thats why I listen to metal. I think Rob said once that there are too many love songs on the radio... Well, he was right. Im sick of it, so I listen to other stuff. Metal stuff. Love songs, but outnumbered by songs about monsters, mysticism, battles, stuff like that... BUT, I would never call someone who listens to Britney an idiot. Now, Britney herself is another story, but her fans... Well, we cant say that all Priest fans are cool either. Just look at how many republicans we have here (j/k). |
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| [_strat_] Monday, February 09, 2009 3:47:07 PM | |
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Thats how old farts do it -when shit hits the fan -send in the youngest! My condolences, Scott...
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Soylentgreen4u a.k.a. theWOLFMAN from Monday, February 09, 2009 2:52:39 PM)| | | Soylentgreen4u a.k.a. theWOLFMAN wrote: | | WELL ONE THING SEEMS TO BE ALL THE BUZZ ABOUT THE GRAMMYS...NOMINEE CHRIS BROWN,WHOEVER THE HELL THAT IS  (AND THE FACT THAT I'M A HARD ROCK/METAL GUY,I'D BE EMBARRASED TO KNOW THAT MUSIC ANYWAY) WAS CHARGED WITH ALLEGED
FELONY BATTERY ON A WOMAN....I'LL BETCHA IT'S HIPPITY HOPPITY,DIPPITY DOOPITY,BACKWARD-HAT-WEARIN',MULTIPLE-GOLD CHAIN-WEARIN',YO-YO-YO,SIZE 60 JEANS-WEARIN' MUSIC RELATED... ...
THE GRAMMYS....
ROB>...GLENN>...IAN> ...K.K.>...ALL SITTIN' AT HOME THINKIN' ABOUT TRAVIS DRAWING THE SHORT STRAW AND HAVING TO SIT THROUGH THE GRAMMMMA'S...
OH YEAH,FORGOT...SCOTT>   |
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| [_strat_] Monday, February 09, 2009 3:45:25 PM | |
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Well... Ive been thinking. I guess that its to each his own here. I guess theres plenty of Dragonforce fans jumping ten feet in the air, saying exactly the same things about Metallica as are being said here... IDK, if Priest or Dragonforce won, wouldnt the Metallica fans be doing the same? So... Whos right here? Lets face it, there were plenty of competitors in the two fields where Priest appeared - and only two prizes. As it happens Metallica took both of them. Ok. Someone had to win. As has been said before, Priest dont need the Grammy. Dragonforce dont either. Metallica the least of all, if truth be told. They will all go on making music for their fans - as is right. Because at the end of the day, its not what the people who give grammies like - its what fans like.
IDK about Metallicas twists and turns. I never paid much attention to them. Slayer and Megadeth - thats all the Trash I need. But... Metallica are, if we get down to it, probably the most succesfull band in commercial terms. Like I said before - if a non-metal fan thinks of metal, one of the first associations he/she will get is Metallica. Maybe, they do deserve that prize more than Priest do - it is after all about marketing, as has also been said before. Metallica are better at it than Priest. As for music... Well, we like Priest, obviously, thats why were here. Someone else likes Metallica. If we did a vote, Metallica fans would probably heavily outnumber us. Personal preferences.
Oh, and I have to comment on the issue of "substance" and "idiots who listen to Britney Spears"... I never saw any more substance in "Thunder road" than Ive seen in "Hit me Baby one more time". One song is about driving, the other about teenage love. Different topics, thats what it is... Maybe were just tired of listening to songs about love? I sure am... Thats why I listen to metal. I think Rob said once that there are too many love songs on the radio... Well, he was right. Im sick of it, so I listen to other stuff. Metal stuff. Love songs, but outnumbered by songs about monsters, mysticism, battles, stuff like that... BUT, I would never call someone who listens to Britney an idiot. Now, Britney herself is another story, but her fans... Well, we cant say that all Priest fans are cool either. Just look at how many republicans we have here (j/k). |
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| [Necroticist] Monday, February 09, 2009 3:01:24 PM | |
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| Ach - ma kilt is swingin' high, ma sporran is fit tae bust an' ma dirk is chaffin' ma leg..aside frae that.. 'All Hail Jethro Tull!!' |
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| [Soylentgreen4u] Monday, February 09, 2009 2:52:39 PM | |
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WELL ONE THING SEEMS TO BE ALL THE BUZZ ABOUT THE GRAMMYS...NOMINEE CHRIS BROWN,WHOEVER THE HELL THAT IS (AND THE FACT THAT I'M A HARD ROCK/METAL GUY,I'D BE EMBARRASED TO KNOW THAT MUSIC ANYWAY) WAS CHARGED WITH ALLEGED
FELONY BATTERY ON A WOMAN....I'LL BETCHA IT'S HIPPITY HOPPITY,DIPPITY DOOPITY,BACKWARD-HAT-WEARIN',MULTIPLE-GOLD CHAIN-WEARIN',YO-YO-YO,SIZE 60 JEANS-WEARIN' MUSIC RELATED......
THE GRAMMYS....
ROB>...GLENN>...IAN> ...K.K.>...ALL SITTIN' AT HOME THINKIN' ABOUT TRAVIS DRAWING THE SHORT STRAW AND HAVING TO SIT THROUGH THE GRAMMMMA'S...
OH YEAH,FORGOT...SCOTT> |
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| [Head banger] Monday, February 09, 2009 2:21:08 PM | |
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of course, your right, their progression and changes make them what we love today. even if we dont love a particular album, they on the whole produce the best music out there. and they never seem to play it safe.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Justin Kenny from Monday, February 09, 2009 1:59:26 PM)| | | Justin Kenny wrote: | | I think it's fair to say Priest may have 'dabbled' in the commercial 'pool,' in the name of keeping their name relevant....as KK himself put it (regarding the radical direction of "Turbo"), "...we figure, if Dokken and Twisted Sister could do it, why not Priest?" And while "Turbo" DID in fact open the doors to many who might not have otherwise given Priest half a chance, it also served to (somewhat) alienate those fans who were expecting the more straight-forward, heavy-hitting style Priest evidenced by "Defenders...." But I think some of these 'yo-yo'-esque dabbles were done without much compromise....Priest never gave off the idea that anyone in their record company ever sat them down and pushed the idea of putting forth a more "radio-friendly" album....the only time Columbia "..got on them" was when they snubbed the idea of using Roger Glover to produce "Sin After Sin." Once they realized they'd get more done with him than without him (at the company's urging)...they back-pedaled on their decision and squired him to man the board after all. Beyond that, Priest (I think) have been largely left to their own devices...creatively speaking. They could've easily made more commercial sounding albums after "Turbo..." but they are, at their core...a HEAVY METAL band...which is why "Ram It Down" sounded heavier than "Turbo," and why "Painkiller" sounded heavier than the previous 2 efforts combined.
They could've also easily told Curbishley to go shit in a hat for suggesting a concept album about Nostradamus. But all it WAS...was an idea.....once it swam in their minds for a spell, they realized there was a lotta potential to take that idea, bring it to life, and make something great come of it....and that they did...I don't care who says what about it. After all....I didn't rightly expect EVERY Priest fan in existence to love this one....let's face it....historically, fans have always had varying opinions from one Priest release to the next....the fact they explore so many possible territories musically and keep it within the metal 'realm' is probably what drives some Priest fans outta their ever-lovin' minds. And maybe...JUST maybe...the industry itself doesn't quite know what to think/make of Judas Priest for the same reasons....wanna know what else?? I don't CARE what the industry thinks....and neither do Priest....they make music for THEMSELVES first....it's gotta please THEM first...and if they were AT ALL displeased or ill at odds about "Nostradamus" upon its completion or at any time during the creative process...it'd have never seen the light of day.
For that matter...the same could be said for everything else they released...it's all about progression....it's all about what THEY feel magnifies their best achievements effort for effort. I, for one...couldn't be any more proud to be a fan of this band!!!
| | | Head banger wrote: | | but, how do we know they are doing what they want? Turbo, was that a sell out? lots say so, I like it, but who am I. AOR was awesome, yet sold squat. is nost a gimick to sell more?
do they want to sell more? are they doing what they want, or what the industry wants? is selling out what they want? could they do some comercial crap? probably, but no one would buy it. they are known for doing what they do, not for "popular (read music lots of people like) music"
| | | paorcamp wrote: | | I see your point...I got it...but priest(after rob's return) kept doing whatever they wanted...you can see it with the last two albums....of course a band needs to sell their products...otherwise they would be unknown...and we fans would be disapointed and furious if we couldn't get their music....guitars and other stuff are not for free and they also need to eat...but metallica changed to a comercial band,they lost their identity...they lost that thing that made us like their music...and of course they turned their back to their real fans...on the other hand priest keeps trying new things, and nostradamus is a piece of evidence...for those who like it(i like it) and for those who don't
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I see. Well pao, win or lose, like or dislike, it is still about selling and making money. I admire your allegiance to Metal. I really do. Unfortunately, marketing and sales is what this whole show was about. Now then, on to your other post;
It is interesting that you would put it this way. ....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band.... As much as our dear friend Mr. Uno may take exception to what I am going to say, isn't that what Priest did with Ripper? They wanted to stay commercially viable and turned from what made them who they are/were. Jugulator is a great example. Not "Priest" sounding at all, as far as I am concerned. Very much like the grinding, crunchy "Nu-Metal" sound that is more commercial and sells more. They were trying to keep the cash coming in. Trying to remain relevant in the face of a HUGE change.
Of course, there are some that may point to Rob's return as a commercial gimmick. I can accept that. Say what you will but Priest, as with any other act, want to sell their records. That is what they do. It is how they make a living. For me, and most fans of the Band, Rob is what makes Priest. He is THE voice so I do not view his return as previously mentioned but I can see where some might make that connection. Anyway, it all comes down to selling the product. I don't think that Judas Priest are in a position at this stage of their career where they really need money..I mean gazillions. They certainly enjoy a comfortable lifestyle, I'm sure. I think Nostradamus is a good example of that. They did something they wanted to do, whether or not it is a commercial success. And I do not mean to insinuate that I do not like the album, because I do like it. I just believe that the Band has gone beyond the need for commercialism and so things like the Grammy award are nice but they won't really affect the Band's future.
| | | paorcamp wrote: | | NOOOO....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band....I won't give credit to a group who prefered fame and fortune over the real escence of music...sorry...but I can't...that's not selling more cd's by hardworking...that's selling more cd's because they left their roots and their true personality to do what the industry wants them to do...and that's something a real band would never do!!...that's not what made metallica famous...now they became shitallica...Who's the master of puppets now???huh???not you metallica...that's for sure!!! (Quoting Message by Numero Uno from Monday, February 09, 2009 11:40:39 AM)
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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GIve Tallica credit, they won the award. They sell more cd's anyway.
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paorcamp wrote: |
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eh...what kind of priest fan could ever say something like that!!!??
are you ok???If priest didn't deserve it...why would metallica do!!??
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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| Lots of sour grapes in here. Maybe Priest didn't win because they just didn't deserve to. |
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Edited at: Monday, February 09, 2009 12:52:51 PM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Monday, February 09, 2009 2:18:38 PM | |
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Ah yes! Well put (as always) Justin. Much the same as I was saying. Well done, my friend.
Look, I am not a gigantic Metallica guy but I like their stuff. Of course, I like their OLD stuff better! HA!!! You know, they have changed. A lot. As far as I am concerned, they are better musicians, they write better music and they certainly are better people now. Unfortunately, that does not play well with their original fans because Metallica were all about "in your face", garage band Metal. They played hard and appealed to that kind of fan. The music they wrote was raw, hard-edged and brutal because that was who they were. It also made them a BIG act. Metal fans LOVE that stuff.
When they cut their hair and got clean and all, they alienated so many people because they were no longer "Metallica". The fact that they are better musically is not important. Their fans want that raw, drunk, slamming sound AND image. Anyway, they did what they feel they had to do and I am OK with that. I have not bought a Metallica album since Justice for All and I don't plan on getting anything anytime soon, but that's me. I suppose that, if Priest started wearing suits and playing Elton John tunes, I would have a problem with them. They certainly have the musical ability to play that kind of music but they won't. You see? |
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| [Head banger] Monday, February 09, 2009 2:11:43 PM | |
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I dont think they need awards, if they wanted them, they might have pursued them 20 years ago. now, I would say its too late. Sell out, I dunno, as the guy from the buthole surfers said "if we make music that people like, who is to complain". its true. its in how you interpret it. was the plan to sell more, at the expense of the existing fans? nope, wouldnt think so.
I agree on AOR. perhaps even more than painkiller, to me it defines priest. painkiller is a bit one sided, hard and fast, which is great, AOR covered all the bases.
your right, they are legends, and have their place in the history of those who know.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Monday, February 09, 2009 1:52:41 PM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I hate the term "sell out". So many terrible connotations associated with it. I do not think that Turbo is a "sell out". I would not rank it as one of my top five, but it is OK. It was what they did at that time and they were very commercially relevant at the time, if you recall. Very much so. Turbo was an attempt to remain there, as far as I can see. I do not see it as selling out, though.
For me, AoR was more of a "return" to what it is they do. Not so much as Painkiller, but then, Painkiller is a classic. I really do not think that Priest concern themselves with what the "industry" wants, otherwise we would be listening to a Priest-Rap album by now. Or Priest - Hip Hop. THAT would be selling out! No, I think that Judas Priest are (and rightfully so) of the opinion that they are "above" that kind of thinking. Doing what is commercially required is not for them. They are at a point where they can do what they want to do and if sales are low, no one is going to be trading in the Bently for a Neon, you know?
Priest do not need to sell five million albums a year and win ten Grammys to be relevant. They have paid their dues, influenced their genre (really influenced), and secured their status and legends. They are in the unique and quite wonderful position of doing whatever they fancy and the mortgage still gets paid on time. Very few reach that level. More importantly, they do not have to "re-invent' themselves as so many "Pop" artists must in order to be viable as entertainers and artists to a moronic public. That kind of crap is for the Britney Spears' of the world. Those with very little substance and an overload of marketing hype.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | but, how do we know they are doing what they want? Turbo, was that a sell out? lots say so, I like it, but who am I. AOR was awesome, yet sold squat. is nost a gimick to sell more?
do they want to sell more? are they doing what they want, or what the industry wants? is selling out what they want? could they do some comercial crap? probably, but no one would buy it. they are known for doing what they do, not for "popular (read music lots of people like) music"
| | | paorcamp wrote: | | I see your point...I got it...but priest(after rob's return) kept doing whatever they wanted...you can see it with the last two albums....of course a band needs to sell their products...otherwise they would be unknown...and we fans would be disapointed and furious if we couldn't get their music....guitars and other stuff are not for free and they also need to eat...but metallica changed to a comercial band,they lost their identity...they lost that thing that made us like their music...and of course they turned their back to their real fans...on the other hand priest keeps trying new things, and nostradamus is a piece of evidence...for those who like it(i like it) and for those who don't
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I see. Well pao, win or lose, like or dislike, it is still about selling and making money. I admire your allegiance to Metal. I really do. Unfortunately, marketing and sales is what this whole show was about. Now then, on to your other post;
It is interesting that you would put it this way. ....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band.... As much as our dear friend Mr. Uno may take exception to what I am going to say, isn't that what Priest did with Ripper? They wanted to stay commercially viable and turned from what made them who they are/were. Jugulator is a great example. Not "Priest" sounding at all, as far as I am concerned. Very much like the grinding, crunchy "Nu-Metal" sound that is more commercial and sells more. They were trying to keep the cash coming in. Trying to remain relevant in the face of a HUGE change.
Of course, there are some that may point to Rob's return as a commercial gimmick. I can accept that. Say what you will but Priest, as with any other act, want to sell their records. That is what they do. It is how they make a living. For me, and most fans of the Band, Rob is what makes Priest. He is THE voice so I do not view his return as previously mentioned but I can see where some might make that connection. Anyway, it all comes down to selling the product. I don't think that Judas Priest are in a position at this stage of their career where they really need money..I mean gazillions. They certainly enjoy a comfortable lifestyle, I'm sure. I think Nostradamus is a good example of that. They did something they wanted to do, whether or not it is a commercial success. And I do not mean to insinuate that I do not like the album, because I do like it. I just believe that the Band has gone beyond the need for commercialism and so things like the Grammy award are nice but they won't really affect the Band's future.
| | | paorcamp wrote: | | NOOOO....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band....I won't give credit to a group who prefered fame and fortune over the real escence of music...sorry...but I can't...that's not selling more cd's by hardworking...that's selling more cd's because they left their roots and their true personality to do what the industry wants them to do...and that's something a real band would never do!!...that's not what made metallica famous...now they became shitallica...Who's the master of puppets now???huh???not you metallica...that's for sure!!! (Quoting Message by Numero Uno from Monday, February 09, 2009 11:40:39 AM)
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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GIve Tallica credit, they won the award. They sell more cd's anyway.
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paorcamp wrote: |
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eh...what kind of priest fan could ever say something like that!!!??
are you ok???If priest didn't deserve it...why would metallica do!!??
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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| Lots of sour grapes in here. Maybe Priest didn't win because they just didn't deserve to. |
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Edited at: Monday, February 09, 2009 12:52:51 PM |
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| [paorcamp] Monday, February 09, 2009 2:00:33 PM | |
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ok dude...I didn't say that...I don't even think that way...and even if AoR or nostradamus don't contain a lot of metal...they're still good...and it's still priest...I can still feel the guitar and the bass and the drums and the voice, their passion...i still get exited listenig to it...they didn't change their escence...just the way they transmit it...totally different to metallica...they left what they used to be
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Numero Uno from Monday, February 09, 2009 1:51:52 PM)| | | Numero Uno wrote: | | What do you think Priest did with Turbo? If that wasn't a commerical sell out then what was. There's not a lot of metal songs on Nostradamus either. Not a lot of metal on that cd. Maybe 3 or 4 songs. Metallica won so they deserve credit.
| | | paorcamp wrote: | | NOOOO....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band....I won't give credit to a group who prefered fame and fortune over the real escence of music...sorry...but I can't...that's not selling more cd's by hardworking...that's selling more cd's because they left their roots and their true personality to do what the industry wants them to do...and that's something a real band would never do!!...that's not what made metallica famous...now they became shitallica...Who's the master of puppets now???huh???not you metallica...that's for sure!!! (Quoting Message by Numero Uno from Monday, February 09, 2009 11:40:39 AM)
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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GIve Tallica credit, they won the award. They sell more cd's anyway.
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paorcamp wrote: |
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eh...what kind of priest fan could ever say something like that!!!??
are you ok???If priest didn't deserve it...why would metallica do!!??
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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| Lots of sour grapes in here. Maybe Priest didn't win because they just didn't deserve to. |
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Edited at: Monday, February 09, 2009 12:52:51 PM |
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| [Justin Kenny] Monday, February 09, 2009 1:59:26 PM | |
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I think it's fair to say Priest may have 'dabbled' in the commercial 'pool,' in the name of keeping their name relevant....as KK himself put it (regarding the radical direction of "Turbo"), "...we figure, if Dokken and Twisted Sister could do it, why not Priest?" And while "Turbo" DID in fact open the doors to many who might not have otherwise given Priest half a chance, it also served to (somewhat) alienate those fans who were expecting the more straight-forward, heavy-hitting style Priest evidenced by "Defenders...." But I think some of these 'yo-yo'-esque dabbles were done without much compromise....Priest never gave off the idea that anyone in their record company ever sat them down and pushed the idea of putting forth a more "radio-friendly" album....the only time Columbia "..got on them" was when they snubbed the idea of using Roger Glover to produce "Sin After Sin." Once they realized they'd get more done with him than without him (at the company's urging)...they back-pedaled on their decision and squired him to man the board after all. Beyond that, Priest (I think) have been largely left to their own devices...creatively speaking. They could've easily made more commercial sounding albums after "Turbo..." but they are, at their core...a HEAVY METAL band...which is why "Ram It Down" sounded heavier than "Turbo," and why "Painkiller" sounded heavier than the previous 2 efforts combined.
They could've also easily told Curbishley to go shit in a hat for suggesting a concept album about Nostradamus. But all it WAS...was an idea.....once it swam in their minds for a spell, they realized there was a lotta potential to take that idea, bring it to life, and make something great come of it....and that they did...I don't care who says what about it. After all....I didn't rightly expect EVERY Priest fan in existence to love this one....let's face it....historically, fans have always had varying opinions from one Priest release to the next....the fact they explore so many possible territories musically and keep it within the metal 'realm' is probably what drives some Priest fans outta their ever-lovin' minds. And maybe...JUST maybe...the industry itself doesn't quite know what to think/make of Judas Priest for the same reasons....wanna know what else?? I don't CARE what the industry thinks....and neither do Priest....they make music for THEMSELVES first....it's gotta please THEM first...and if they were AT ALL displeased or ill at odds about "Nostradamus" upon its completion or at any time during the creative process...it'd have never seen the light of day.
For that matter...the same could be said for everything else they released...it's all about progression....it's all about what THEY feel magnifies their best achievements effort for effort. I, for one...couldn't be any more proud to be a fan of this band!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Monday, February 09, 2009 1:31:01 PM)| | | Head banger wrote: | | but, how do we know they are doing what they want? Turbo, was that a sell out? lots say so, I like it, but who am I. AOR was awesome, yet sold squat. is nost a gimick to sell more?
do they want to sell more? are they doing what they want, or what the industry wants? is selling out what they want? could they do some comercial crap? probably, but no one would buy it. they are known for doing what they do, not for "popular (read music lots of people like) music"
| | | paorcamp wrote: | | I see your point...I got it...but priest(after rob's return) kept doing whatever they wanted...you can see it with the last two albums....of course a band needs to sell their products...otherwise they would be unknown...and we fans would be disapointed and furious if we couldn't get their music....guitars and other stuff are not for free and they also need to eat...but metallica changed to a comercial band,they lost their identity...they lost that thing that made us like their music...and of course they turned their back to their real fans...on the other hand priest keeps trying new things, and nostradamus is a piece of evidence...for those who like it(i like it) and for those who don't
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I see. Well pao, win or lose, like or dislike, it is still about selling and making money. I admire your allegiance to Metal. I really do. Unfortunately, marketing and sales is what this whole show was about. Now then, on to your other post;
It is interesting that you would put it this way. ....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band.... As much as our dear friend Mr. Uno may take exception to what I am going to say, isn't that what Priest did with Ripper? They wanted to stay commercially viable and turned from what made them who they are/were. Jugulator is a great example. Not "Priest" sounding at all, as far as I am concerned. Very much like the grinding, crunchy "Nu-Metal" sound that is more commercial and sells more. They were trying to keep the cash coming in. Trying to remain relevant in the face of a HUGE change.
Of course, there are some that may point to Rob's return as a commercial gimmick. I can accept that. Say what you will but Priest, as with any other act, want to sell their records. That is what they do. It is how they make a living. For me, and most fans of the Band, Rob is what makes Priest. He is THE voice so I do not view his return as previously mentioned but I can see where some might make that connection. Anyway, it all comes down to selling the product. I don't think that Judas Priest are in a position at this stage of their career where they really need money..I mean gazillions. They certainly enjoy a comfortable lifestyle, I'm sure. I think Nostradamus is a good example of that. They did something they wanted to do, whether or not it is a commercial success. And I do not mean to insinuate that I do not like the album, because I do like it. I just believe that the Band has gone beyond the need for commercialism and so things like the Grammy award are nice but they won't really affect the Band's future.
| | | paorcamp wrote: | | NOOOO....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band....I won't give credit to a group who prefered fame and fortune over the real escence of music...sorry...but I can't...that's not selling more cd's by hardworking...that's selling more cd's because they left their roots and their true personality to do what the industry wants them to do...and that's something a real band would never do!!...that's not what made metallica famous...now they became shitallica...Who's the master of puppets now???huh???not you metallica...that's for sure!!! (Quoting Message by Numero Uno from Monday, February 09, 2009 11:40:39 AM)
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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GIve Tallica credit, they won the award. They sell more cd's anyway.
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paorcamp wrote: |
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eh...what kind of priest fan could ever say something like that!!!??
are you ok???If priest didn't deserve it...why would metallica do!!??
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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| Lots of sour grapes in here. Maybe Priest didn't win because they just didn't deserve to. |
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Edited at: Monday, February 09, 2009 12:52:51 PM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Monday, February 09, 2009 1:52:41 PM | |
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I hate the term "sell out". So many terrible connotations associated with it. I do not think that Turbo is a "sell out". I would not rank it as one of my top five, but it is OK. It was what they did at that time and they were very commercially relevant at the time, if you recall. Very much so. Turbo was an attempt to remain there, as far as I can see. I do not see it as selling out, though.
For me, AoR was more of a "return" to what it is they do. Not so much as Painkiller, but then, Painkiller is a classic. I really do not think that Priest concern themselves with what the "industry" wants, otherwise we would be listening to a Priest-Rap album by now. Or Priest - Hip Hop. THAT would be selling out! No, I think that Judas Priest are (and rightfully so) of the opinion that they are "above" that kind of thinking. Doing what is commercially required is not for them. They are at a point where they can do what they want to do and if sales are low, no one is going to be trading in the Bently for a Neon, you know?
Priest do not need to sell five million albums a year and win ten Grammys to be relevant. They have paid their dues, influenced their genre (really influenced), and secured their status and legends. They are in the unique and quite wonderful position of doing whatever they fancy and the mortgage still gets paid on time. Very few reach that level. More importantly, they do not have to "re-invent' themselves as so many "Pop" artists must in order to be viable as entertainers and artists to a moronic public. That kind of crap is for the Britney Spears' of the world. Those with very little substance and an overload of marketing hype.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Monday, February 09, 2009 1:31:01 PM)| | | Head banger wrote: | | but, how do we know they are doing what they want? Turbo, was that a sell out? lots say so, I like it, but who am I. AOR was awesome, yet sold squat. is nost a gimick to sell more?
do they want to sell more? are they doing what they want, or what the industry wants? is selling out what they want? could they do some comercial crap? probably, but no one would buy it. they are known for doing what they do, not for "popular (read music lots of people like) music"
| | | paorcamp wrote: | | I see your point...I got it...but priest(after rob's return) kept doing whatever they wanted...you can see it with the last two albums....of course a band needs to sell their products...otherwise they would be unknown...and we fans would be disapointed and furious if we couldn't get their music....guitars and other stuff are not for free and they also need to eat...but metallica changed to a comercial band,they lost their identity...they lost that thing that made us like their music...and of course they turned their back to their real fans...on the other hand priest keeps trying new things, and nostradamus is a piece of evidence...for those who like it(i like it) and for those who don't
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I see. Well pao, win or lose, like or dislike, it is still about selling and making money. I admire your allegiance to Metal. I really do. Unfortunately, marketing and sales is what this whole show was about. Now then, on to your other post;
It is interesting that you would put it this way. ....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band.... As much as our dear friend Mr. Uno may take exception to what I am going to say, isn't that what Priest did with Ripper? They wanted to stay commercially viable and turned from what made them who they are/were. Jugulator is a great example. Not "Priest" sounding at all, as far as I am concerned. Very much like the grinding, crunchy "Nu-Metal" sound that is more commercial and sells more. They were trying to keep the cash coming in. Trying to remain relevant in the face of a HUGE change.
Of course, there are some that may point to Rob's return as a commercial gimmick. I can accept that. Say what you will but Priest, as with any other act, want to sell their records. That is what they do. It is how they make a living. For me, and most fans of the Band, Rob is what makes Priest. He is THE voice so I do not view his return as previously mentioned but I can see where some might make that connection. Anyway, it all comes down to selling the product. I don't think that Judas Priest are in a position at this stage of their career where they really need money..I mean gazillions. They certainly enjoy a comfortable lifestyle, I'm sure. I think Nostradamus is a good example of that. They did something they wanted to do, whether or not it is a commercial success. And I do not mean to insinuate that I do not like the album, because I do like it. I just believe that the Band has gone beyond the need for commercialism and so things like the Grammy award are nice but they won't really affect the Band's future.
| | | paorcamp wrote: | | NOOOO....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band....I won't give credit to a group who prefered fame and fortune over the real escence of music...sorry...but I can't...that's not selling more cd's by hardworking...that's selling more cd's because they left their roots and their true personality to do what the industry wants them to do...and that's something a real band would never do!!...that's not what made metallica famous...now they became shitallica...Who's the master of puppets now???huh???not you metallica...that's for sure!!! (Quoting Message by Numero Uno from Monday, February 09, 2009 11:40:39 AM)
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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GIve Tallica credit, they won the award. They sell more cd's anyway.
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paorcamp wrote: |
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eh...what kind of priest fan could ever say something like that!!!??
are you ok???If priest didn't deserve it...why would metallica do!!??
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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| Lots of sour grapes in here. Maybe Priest didn't win because they just didn't deserve to. |
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Edited at: Monday, February 09, 2009 12:52:51 PM |
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| [Cooper Ryback] Monday, February 09, 2009 1:51:52 PM | |
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What do you think Priest did with Turbo? If that wasn't a commerical sell out then what was. There's not a lot of metal songs on Nostradamus either. Not a lot of metal on that cd. Maybe 3 or 4 songs. Metallica won so they deserve credit.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by paorcamp from Monday, February 09, 2009 12:28:40 PM)| | | paorcamp wrote: | | NOOOO....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band....I won't give credit to a group who prefered fame and fortune over the real escence of music...sorry...but I can't...that's not selling more cd's by hardworking...that's selling more cd's because they left their roots and their true personality to do what the industry wants them to do...and that's something a real band would never do!!...that's not what made metallica famous...now they became shitallica...Who's the master of puppets now???huh???not you metallica...that's for sure!!! (Quoting Message by Numero Uno from Monday, February 09, 2009 11:40:39 AM)
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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GIve Tallica credit, they won the award. They sell more cd's anyway.
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paorcamp wrote: |
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eh...what kind of priest fan could ever say something like that!!!??
are you ok???If priest didn't deserve it...why would metallica do!!??
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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| Lots of sour grapes in here. Maybe Priest didn't win because they just didn't deserve to. |
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Edited at: Monday, February 09, 2009 12:52:51 PM |
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| [Head banger] Monday, February 09, 2009 1:49:26 PM | |
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it could be, who knows. we shouldnt asume we know what they want or are trying to do.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by paorcamp from Monday, February 09, 2009 1:47:14 PM)| | | paorcamp wrote: | | well...you may be right...but if they're doing what the industry wants them to do..then why aren't them taken into account???and if they are doing what the industry wants...then thank God is not as bad as metallica's task...and if what they want is to sell as much as metallica...they are doing it wrong...
| | | Head banger wrote: | | but, how do we know they are doing what they want? Turbo, was that a sell out? lots say so, I like it, but who am I. AOR was awesome, yet sold squat. is nost a gimick to sell more?
do they want to sell more? are they doing what they want, or what the industry wants? is selling out what they want? could they do some comercial crap? probably, but no one would buy it. they are known for doing what they do, not for "popular (read music lots of people like) music"
| | | paorcamp wrote: | | I see your point...I got it...but priest(after rob's return) kept doing whatever they wanted...you can see it with the last two albums....of course a band needs to sell their products...otherwise they would be unknown...and we fans would be disapointed and furious if we couldn't get their music....guitars and other stuff are not for free and they also need to eat...but metallica changed to a comercial band,they lost their identity...they lost that thing that made us like their music...and of course they turned their back to their real fans...on the other hand priest keeps trying new things, and nostradamus is a piece of evidence...for those who like it(i like it) and for those who don't
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I see. Well pao, win or lose, like or dislike, it is still about selling and making money. I admire your allegiance to Metal. I really do. Unfortunately, marketing and sales is what this whole show was about. Now then, on to your other post;
It is interesting that you would put it this way. ....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band.... As much as our dear friend Mr. Uno may take exception to what I am going to say, isn't that what Priest did with Ripper? They wanted to stay commercially viable and turned from what made them who they are/were. Jugulator is a great example. Not "Priest" sounding at all, as far as I am concerned. Very much like the grinding, crunchy "Nu-Metal" sound that is more commercial and sells more. They were trying to keep the cash coming in. Trying to remain relevant in the face of a HUGE change.
Of course, there are some that may point to Rob's return as a commercial gimmick. I can accept that. Say what you will but Priest, as with any other act, want to sell their records. That is what they do. It is how they make a living. For me, and most fans of the Band, Rob is what makes Priest. He is THE voice so I do not view his return as previously mentioned but I can see where some might make that connection. Anyway, it all comes down to selling the product. I don't think that Judas Priest are in a position at this stage of their career where they really need money..I mean gazillions. They certainly enjoy a comfortable lifestyle, I'm sure. I think Nostradamus is a good example of that. They did something they wanted to do, whether or not it is a commercial success. And I do not mean to insinuate that I do not like the album, because I do like it. I just believe that the Band has gone beyond the need for commercialism and so things like the Grammy award are nice but they won't really affect the Band's future.
| | | paorcamp wrote: | | NOOOO....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band....I won't give credit to a group who prefered fame and fortune over the real escence of music...sorry...but I can't...that's not selling more cd's by hardworking...that's selling more cd's because they left their roots and their true personality to do what the industry wants them to do...and that's something a real band would never do!!...that's not what made metallica famous...now they became shitallica...Who's the master of puppets now???huh???not you metallica...that's for sure!!! (Quoting Message by Numero Uno from Monday, February 09, 2009 11:40:39 AM)
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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GIve Tallica credit, they won the award. They sell more cd's anyway.
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paorcamp wrote: |
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eh...what kind of priest fan could ever say something like that!!!??
are you ok???If priest didn't deserve it...why would metallica do!!??
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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| Lots of sour grapes in here. Maybe Priest didn't win because they just didn't deserve to. |
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Edited at: Monday, February 09, 2009 12:52:51 PM |
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| [paorcamp] Monday, February 09, 2009 1:47:14 PM | |
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well...you may be right...but if they're doing what the industry wants them to do..then why haven't them been taken into account???and if they are doing what the industry wants...then thank God is not as bad as metallica's task...and if what they want is to sell as much as metallica...they are doing it wrong... [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Monday, February 09, 2009 1:31:01 PM)
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Head banger wrote: |
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but, how do we know they are doing what they want? Turbo, was that a sell out? lots say so, I like it, but who am I. AOR was awesome, yet sold squat. is nost a gimick to sell more?
do they want to sell more? are they doing what they want, or what the industry wants? is selling out what they want? could they do some comercial crap? probably, but no one would buy it. they are known for doing what they do, not for "popular (read music lots of people like) music"
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paorcamp wrote: |
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I see your point...I got it...but priest(after rob's return) kept doing whatever they wanted...you can see it with the last two albums....of course a band needs to sell their products...otherwise they would be unknown...and we fans would be disapointed and furious if we couldn't get their music....guitars and other stuff are not for free and they also need to eat...but metallica changed to a comercial band,they lost their identity...they lost that thing that made us like their music...and of course they turned their back to their real fans...on the other hand priest keeps trying new things, and nostradamus is a piece of evidence...for those who like it(i like it) and for those who don't
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I see. Well pao, win or lose, like or dislike, it is still about selling and making money. I admire your allegiance to Metal. I really do. Unfortunately, marketing and sales is what this whole show was about. Now then, on to your other post;
It is interesting that you would put it this way. ....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band.... As much as our dear friend Mr. Uno may take exception to what I am going to say, isn't that what Priest did with Ripper? They wanted to stay commercially viable and turned from what made them who they are/were. Jugulator is a great example. Not "Priest" sounding at all, as far as I am concerned. Very much like the grinding, crunchy "Nu-Metal" sound that is more commercial and sells more. They were trying to keep the cash coming in. Trying to remain relevant in the face of a HUGE change.
Of course, there are some that may point to Rob's return as a commercial gimmick. I can accept that. Say what you will but Priest, as with any other act, want to sell their records. That is what they do. It is how they make a living. For me, and most fans of the Band, Rob is what makes Priest. He is THE voice so I do not view his return as previously mentioned but I can see where some might make that connection. Anyway, it all comes down to selling the product. I don't think that Judas Priest are in a position at this stage of their career where they really need money..I mean gazillions. They certainly enjoy a comfortable lifestyle, I'm sure. I think Nostradamus is a good example of that. They did something they wanted to do, whether or not it is a commercial success. And I do not mean to insinuate that I do not like the album, because I do like it. I just believe that the Band has gone beyond the need for commercialism and so things like the Grammy award are nice but they won't really affect the Band's future.
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paorcamp wrote: |
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NOOOO....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band....I won't give credit to a group who prefered fame and fortune over the real escence of music...sorry...but I can't...that's not selling more cd's by hardworking...that's selling more cd's because they left their roots and their true personality to do what the industry wants them to do...and that's something a real band would never do!!...that's not what made metallica famous...now they became shitallica...Who's the master of puppets now???huh???not you metallica...that's for sure!!! (Quoting Message by Numero Uno from Monday, February 09, 2009 11:40:39 AM)
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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GIve Tallica credit, they won the award. They sell more cd's anyway.
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paorcamp wrote: |
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eh...what kind of priest fan could ever say something like that!!!??
are you ok???If priest didn't deserve it...why would metallica do!!??
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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| Lots of sour grapes in here. Maybe Priest didn't win because they just didn't deserve to. |
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Edited at: Monday, February 09, 2009 12:52:51 PM |
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Edited at: Monday, February 09, 2009 1:49:30 PM |
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| [Head banger] Monday, February 09, 2009 1:31:01 PM | |
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but, how do we know they are doing what they want? Turbo, was that a sell out? lots say so, I like it, but who am I. AOR was awesome, yet sold squat. is nost a gimick to sell more?
do they want to sell more? are they doing what they want, or what the industry wants? is selling out what they want? could they do some comercial crap? probably, but no one would buy it. they are known for doing what they do, not for "popular (read music lots of people like) music"
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by paorcamp from Monday, February 09, 2009 1:07:13 PM)| | | paorcamp wrote: | | I see your point...I got it...but priest(after rob's return) kept doing whatever they wanted...you can see it with the last two albums....of course a band needs to sell their products...otherwise they would be unknown...and we fans would be disapointed and furious if we couldn't get their music....guitars and other stuff are not for free and they also need to eat...but metallica changed to a comercial band,they lost their identity...they lost that thing that made us like their music...and of course they turned their back to their real fans...on the other hand priest keeps trying new things, and nostradamus is a piece of evidence...for those who like it(i like it) and for those who don't
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I see. Well pao, win or lose, like or dislike, it is still about selling and making money. I admire your allegiance to Metal. I really do. Unfortunately, marketing and sales is what this whole show was about. Now then, on to your other post;
It is interesting that you would put it this way. ....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band.... As much as our dear friend Mr. Uno may take exception to what I am going to say, isn't that what Priest did with Ripper? They wanted to stay commercially viable and turned from what made them who they are/were. Jugulator is a great example. Not "Priest" sounding at all, as far as I am concerned. Very much like the grinding, crunchy "Nu-Metal" sound that is more commercial and sells more. They were trying to keep the cash coming in. Trying to remain relevant in the face of a HUGE change.
Of course, there are some that may point to Rob's return as a commercial gimmick. I can accept that. Say what you will but Priest, as with any other act, want to sell their records. That is what they do. It is how they make a living. For me, and most fans of the Band, Rob is what makes Priest. He is THE voice so I do not view his return as previously mentioned but I can see where some might make that connection. Anyway, it all comes down to selling the product. I don't think that Judas Priest are in a position at this stage of their career where they really need money..I mean gazillions. They certainly enjoy a comfortable lifestyle, I'm sure. I think Nostradamus is a good example of that. They did something they wanted to do, whether or not it is a commercial success. And I do not mean to insinuate that I do not like the album, because I do like it. I just believe that the Band has gone beyond the need for commercialism and so things like the Grammy award are nice but they won't really affect the Band's future.
| | | paorcamp wrote: | | NOOOO....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band....I won't give credit to a group who prefered fame and fortune over the real escence of music...sorry...but I can't...that's not selling more cd's by hardworking...that's selling more cd's because they left their roots and their true personality to do what the industry wants them to do...and that's something a real band would never do!!...that's not what made metallica famous...now they became shitallica...Who's the master of puppets now???huh???not you metallica...that's for sure!!! (Quoting Message by Numero Uno from Monday, February 09, 2009 11:40:39 AM)
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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GIve Tallica credit, they won the award. They sell more cd's anyway.
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paorcamp wrote: |
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eh...what kind of priest fan could ever say something like that!!!??
are you ok???If priest didn't deserve it...why would metallica do!!??
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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| Lots of sour grapes in here. Maybe Priest didn't win because they just didn't deserve to. |
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Edited at: Monday, February 09, 2009 12:52:51 PM |
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