[thekissofjudas] Friday, August 05, 2011 1:56:59 PM
Dont call it faith, call it freedom of take the things are they are.
I see lot of violent guys who beat women...so I should be afraid of every man on earth? There are good guys, nice guys, excellent guys...why tagged all as sexist, violent, dominat?
Thanks for your faith ;)
A sister of metal you will find in me
I'm a 42 year old dude with opinions based on thought and experience. OK, Kiss of Judas, I'll LISTEN to you and try not to fear you...call it a leap of faith.
[thekissofjudas] Friday, August 05, 2011 1:53:29 PM
Yes, it is true. Art is free, art can take you where you want to go or where the artist wants to take you. Interpretion of art is almost impossible of out of the subjectivity but the artist opens many roads to take you beyond your low expectative interpretation. Like the great painters of the Holy Things, they were suspected of heresy and maybe there were some symbolic content that the Church would not approve if it were not concealed after imganes and symbols. Freedom of religion and mind were prohibited then.
All culture is symbolic and interpretation, oscure and hard. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by metalgodess from Wednesday, August 03, 2011 8:31:02 PM)
metalgodess wrote:
back to spirituality....I realize that pretty much everything is open to interpretation, and your mind will go where it wants to go. Take Tyrant - song about the devil, song about an angry God pissed off at a dysfunctional world, or is it a song about anti-establishment/anti-government? Same thing with The Sentinel - good or evil? You pick. Morons like Tipper Gore et all will push their 'Satanic' agenda until the cows come home. You take the song and believe what you want...
Edited at: Friday, August 05, 2011 1:55:05 PM
[heimda11] Friday, August 05, 2011 11:02:44 AM
Right on. Great art is often multi-layered. The prophetic visions of great artists like the mighty Priest are clouded in mystery as many choices are yet to be made.
[metalgodess] Wednesday, August 03, 2011 8:31:02 PM
back to spirituality....I realize that pretty much everything is open to interpretation, and your mind will go where it wants to go. Take Tyrant - song about the devil, song about an angry God pissed off at a dysfunctional world, or is it a song about anti-establishment/anti-government? Same thing with The Sentinel - good or evil? You pick. Morons like Tipper Gore et all will push their 'Satanic' agenda until the cows come home. You take the song and believe what you want...
[heimda11] Wednesday, August 03, 2011 9:01:27 AM
I'm a 42 year old dude with opinions based on thought and experience. OK, Kiss of Judas, I'll LISTEN to you and try not to fear you...call it a leap of faith.
[thekissofjudas] Monday, August 01, 2011 7:35:13 PM
Only to the idiot chauvinists or the religious (nuts) who believe women to be the devil.
I respect the ladies!!!
disclaimer: religious (nuts) does not refer to all who are religious
thekissofjudas wrote:
I am a lady, guys, is that a fault? Lol
[thekissofjudas] Monday, August 01, 2011 7:32:43 PM
Hey, why do u fear women? It is the same if I say I fear men, it is senseless
we women are tired of b eing feared, defined by some old asshole as passive, weak, ect.
And you men should be tired of being called strong, fearless, bla bla
let us be as we are
no as the others say we should be
[Budred] Friday, July 29, 2011 6:34:35 AM
Only to the idiot chauvinists or the religious (nuts) who believe women to be the devil.
I respect the ladies!!!
disclaimer: religious (nuts) does not refer to all who are religious [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by thekissofjudas from Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:59:00 PM)
thekissofjudas wrote:
I am a lady, guys, is that a fault? Lol
[heimda11] Thursday, July 28, 2011 4:22:45 PM
I love women but also fear you. You are like the ocean: beautiful, calm and placid. Where the water laps the shore, life flourishes. But be cautious of the potentially lethal undertow that can take the unwary into the uncharted depths or smash us mercilessly against the rocky sea bottom. And then there is the tsunami, which, with the fury of an enraged queen, can lay waste to all in its path. Yes, I love you, but also properly respect and fear.
[thekissofjudas] Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:59:00 PM
I am a lady, guys, is that a fault? Lol
[heimda11] Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:38:31 PM
If anyone visits Kansas City, I highly recommend Jaspers Italian Restaurant on 103rd (the deli is known as Marco Polos). The older brother that grills italian sausage over the lunch hours on the patio (regardless of the weather) is an icon. He is known for the best grilled sausage sandwich in the city and unbelievable sauted potatos, onions and peppers generously heaped on top. He asked me today if I wanted mustard or barbeque and I realized it was a metaphor. I chose mustard and put a dollar in his tip jar. He slowly looked up from his grill, stared deep into my eyes and asked me again: mustard or barbeque? Mustard, sir. Damn that dog was stellar.
[paorcamp] Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:38:01 AM
DONE A DEAL WITH THE DEVIL!!! CUZ YOU KNOW THAT IS REAL, DONE A DEAL WITH THE DEVIL, FROM A HEART MADE OF STEEL!!! Spirituality, there you go!
[heimda11] Tuesday, July 26, 2011 11:05:54 AM
I feel like an idiot. Not the first time and nor will it be the last. My sincere apologies ladies. Just like a white, male pseudo-liberal American redneck to make such glaringly incorrect assumptions. How cool though: intellectual, analytical, philosophical, Judas Priest fans who happen to be ladies. I think I've died and gone to heaven, or Hel?
[guidogodoy] Monday, July 25, 2011 9:32:36 PM
Also, to quote the Bard: "to whom the hell are you speaking?" LOL
Everyone, save for HB and Bud way below are women! "Sir?!" That little double piece of paper in the upper-right of this message would help clarify.
Sir, I must say, "Well said!" To quote Cicero, "If truth were self-evident, eloquence would not be necessary." Ha. I say anyone grumbling about your abrupt changes from delightful comedy to bone crunching elbows should cut you some slack. That is the yin to the yang. Well said. Without Justice there can be no Peace. Damn, I'm a dude so I'm always trying to find a solution.
[heimda11] Monday, July 25, 2011 9:22:10 PM
Sir, I must say, "Well said!" To quote Cicero, "If truth were self-evident, eloquence would not be necessary." Ha. I say anyone grumbling about your abrupt changes from delightful comedy to bone crunching elbows should cut you some slack. That is the yin to the yang. Well said. Without Justice there can be no Peace. Damn, I'm a dude so I'm always trying to find a solution.
[thekissofjudas] Monday, July 25, 2011 4:12:25 PM
CONDOLENCE TO NORWAY
AND A WORD ABOUT FISHING
children at border of death cannot even speak
teach the governaments of the mighty countries not to STEAL and EXPLOIT the natural resources of other countries, and to help the poorest of the Earth to have new resources that allow to live with dignity
I feel that there is a lack of understanding of what pain and hunger is in the lives of many millions of humans
[spapad] Sunday, July 24, 2011 9:15:01 PM
All out slaughter. That was just so unreal. God help the families.
Hmmm, soybean curd might be the answer. Teach them to make tofu.
[.] Saturday, July 23, 2011 5:04:43 PM
Yeah, but...what if there aren't any more fish in the ocean because of over-fishing? [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by heimda11 from Saturday, July 23, 2011 5:02:16 PM)
heimda11 wrote:
It is all about the children. It is critical to teach them to fish rather than just give them a fish.
[heimda11] Saturday, July 23, 2011 5:02:16 PM
It is all about the children. It is critical to teach them to fish rather than just give them a fish.
[.] Saturday, July 23, 2011 4:58:51 PM
If the rent wasn't so goddamn high, the children would have enough to eat. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by thekissofjudas from Saturday, July 23, 2011 12:51:53 PM)
thekissofjudas wrote:
A child dying of hunger is more important than any further consiration.
[thekissofjudas] Saturday, July 23, 2011 12:51:53 PM
A child dying of hunger is more important than any further consiration.
[heimda11] Friday, July 22, 2011 10:07:17 PM
Omfg . I am a total Asimov fan and a Priest fan. Ha. We have much in common. (Forgive me if I'm one of the idiots hardwired to shed my blood on the battlefield for nothing but my twisted sense of honor. But I'm a good friend to cover your back.)
Odd funny story...
I was recently out of a divorce a few years back and working three jobs: loading trucks at UPS, cooking at a biker bar and unloading trucks for Pottery Barn. (I joke that my liberal arts college education helped hone the ability to think critically, speak, write...would you like fries with that?) Anyway, just finished my shift at the biker bar and was nursing my shift drink at the bar. This dude sat down near me and I couldn't help but notice him without staring. He was 70 plus years old and dressed impeccibly in black with with very short white hair. This dude was sooo sharp looking in black that I couldn't help but think he looked like an embodiment of the devil. Sorry to go there but anyone would of thought the same. This dude had a PRESENCE. Totally out of the blue, with no introduction, he said to me, "Name three Russian Jews." I'm a former Shakespearean actor so sometimes play a situation perfectly for effect. I calmly looked up from my drink and said, "Andre Sakharov, Alexandre Solzinitzen and Isaac Asimov." Then calmly went back to my drink. Not another word was said but I could tell he about shit himself. Ha. I wanted to say alright dude did I win the golden fiddle? But for maximum effect didn't say another word and neither did he. Hah.
[.] Friday, July 22, 2011 2:50:22 PM
Sorry, Budred. I know you did. However, the video (I saw it) left me pretty indifferent.
I never made the relation between Judas Priest and the Devil. Since the Devil personifies the lack of order, how can music, which is a form or order of notes and rhythm, be of evil?
There is something to be said about music: that it is a way to enlist soldiers in worthless wars. And War IS Evil.
I'm sure there were plenty of nationalistic anthems sung in church choirs and theaters to get the young studs to kill others and to die ingloriously in the trenches.
But I never felt like joining the army when I listen to Judas Priest.
I was hoping to get responses from some of you on the video I posted and instead I got this.
There was so much back and forth I'm wondering if many of you even saw it. I'd post it again but
maybe you guys just don't want to respond. Either or it's cool.
Maybe someone will comment on this. It's not about promoting anti-religion, I'm looking for genuine
opinions.
I was watching a TV show about religion and it was mentioned that Catholics and the vatican made up
the story about hell, and basically admitted it doesn't exist. Has anyone here heard this? I've never read the bible
nor will I but to anyone who has can you tell me where in the bible(Old Testament) it describes or talks about
hell? Does anyone have knowledge of the Vatican actually admitting this? If it were to be true why should we believe
anything the Vatican tells us about religion or god? Anyone? Edited at: Friday, July 22, 2011 9:44:24 AM
[.] Friday, July 22, 2011 2:35:13 PM
The UNICEF works closely with all religious organizations. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by thekissofjudas from Friday, July 22, 2011 12:58:52 PM)
thekissofjudas wrote:
Help UNICEF TO STOP HUNGER IN AFRICA
STOP CHATTING ABOUT THE DEVIL Edited at: Friday, July 22, 2011 1:00:07 PM
[.] Friday, July 22, 2011 2:34:06 PM
A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
A robot must obey any orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
I'm sure you've read the books.
I got so hooked on Asimov I can't read any other sci-fi writers without laughing out loud, and that includes Ray Bradbury.
A computer doesn't have a brain so I can't imagine it will ever have human thought.
It can only do what it's programmed to so there can never be human emotion only reaction.
It can never create evil only replicate it. Don't fear the computer, fear man, the real root of all evil.
.
heimda11 wrote:
...sooo what about super computers? If we can't agree on animals lets complicate the conversations even further. Can or will binary code generate emotion, free will and ultimately evil? Surely a super computer can be programmed (or even program itself) for self perpetuation, which is the primary responsibility of all carbon based life forms.
Since sense of humor is arguably the highest form of intellegence, maybe the question should be, do animals have a sense of humor? When I was having a few beers yesterday I swear my friend's dog smiled at me.
[thekissofjudas] Friday, July 22, 2011 12:58:52 PM
Help UNICEF TO STOP HUNGER IN AFRICA
STOP CHATTING ABOUT THE DEVIL Edited at: Friday, July 22, 2011 1:00:07 PM
[Head banger] Friday, July 22, 2011 12:58:49 PM
my politics are conservative (canadian) and I am an athiest. I fear no devil [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by thekissofjudas from Friday, July 22, 2011 12:54:27 PM)
thekissofjudas wrote:
I think that in the AngloSaxon culture the fear of the Devil and conservative politics go hand in hand, and any flashing of "satanic" ( omg) content alters those stupids too much...
The "evil" symbols in metal bands are a sign of anti cultural behave, of breaking point, and in most cases, are only that. Of course, there are other gang of idiotas figthing for satan...
;)
[thekissofjudas] Friday, July 22, 2011 12:54:27 PM
I think that in the AngloSaxon culture the fear of the Devil and conservative politics go hand in hand, and any flashing of "satanic" ( omg) content alters those stupids too much...
The "evil" symbols in metal bands are a sign of anti cultural behave, of breaking point, and in most cases, are only that. Of course, there are other gang of idiotas figthing for satan...
;)
[thekissofjudas] Friday, July 22, 2011 12:45:35 PM
HA HA THIS VIDEO IS SHIT!!!
A lot of idiocy, Lucifer's eyes
Oh My God
pure ignorance, Ra's eye and
notice that the the twin pillars are in the bible, temple of solomon, the two witness of apocalypsis
the two witness before God's altar
God's eyes is in many catholic illustration, of course, it is taken from Ra
Hilarious
as ever
I cant waist my time on this [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by Budred from Thursday, July 21, 2011 8:50:51 AM)
Budred wrote:
If you're into religion this will probably scare the "Priest" right out of you.
If you're like me you'll just say "Please"!!! It's not devil music, it's freakin' marketing. (Satan sells)(LOL)
Edited at: Friday, July 22, 2011 12:46:22 PM
[thekissofjudas] Friday, July 22, 2011 12:39:07 PM
A Pope said that the hell was not a physical place. But there is not hell possibily....I told in this thread that a catholic priest told my mother that nobody goes to hell. He got kicked off our church. I was catholic, I feel still christian [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by Budred from Friday, July 22, 2011 10:27:24 AM)
Budred wrote:
I was attempting to research my own question and apparently it was the Pope who claimed there was
no physical hell. I guess the bible does discuss it. Just ignore my question because I really don't care anymore.
I'm spending way too much time on something I have no use for. To each his own no matter his/her beliefs. My
criticism or sarcasm is towards religion not those who practice it. Even if some of my posts seem like personal
attacks on any one person they are not meant to be taken that way. Sometimes I resond on impulse and anger
without thinking through what I'm writing and go against my own beliefs. I apologize for that. In a stable mindset
I truly believe "To each his own". I do not judge and I do not hate. I preach tolerance as the key to peace.
Unfortunately too many people are intolerant of others and believe their beliefs are the way it should be. Well, it's
not. We all have our own mind and were all free to use it as we see fit. Peace all! Love ya'.(LOL)
Budred wrote:
I was hoping to get responses from some of you on the video I posted and instead I got this.
There was so much back and forth I'm wondering if many of you even saw it. I'd post it again but
maybe you guys just don't want to respond. Either or it's cool.
Maybe someone will comment on this. It's not about promoting anti-religion, I'm looking for genuine
opinions.
I was watching a TV show about religion and it was mentioned that Catholics and the vatican made up
the story about hell, and basically admitted it doesn't exist. Has anyone here heard this? I've never read the bible
nor will I but to anyone who has can you tell me where in the bible(Old Testament) it describes or talks about
hell? Does anyone have knowledge of the Vatican actually admitting this? If it were to be true why should we believe
anything the Vatican tells us about religion or god? Anyone? Edited at: Friday, July 22, 2011 9:44:24 AM
[thekissofjudas] Friday, July 22, 2011 12:35:34 PM
I repeat:
this is not the best place to discuss religion, philosophy or/and ethics. Neither I think we are all ready to do it, even me, because you should spend long years of research, study and investigation to say something of value.
I can only say that the concept of evil lies in a brain, which creates a mind ,and acomplex series of interrelation through the body and the social enviroment, learning and judging about abstraction more than experience. A super computer is just a lame part of a brain, has no "bodY" nor " social experiences"; only simulates some experiences under directions. We cannot commit the mistake that think that animals can tell good from evil only by sensations ( evil is what hurts? hurts what?); good is what protects ( how does it protect?):
Go to the dentist and you will be hurt for your good.
Protect yourself in autoindulgence and lose all courage.
Just is not that simple.
Animal cannot understand subtle games of the mind, discussion about patriotism, nations, religions, true.
How an animal tell a true religion from a false?
They don´t know what is a religion.
How some people be so ignorant to sell their soul (? what is a soul: an abstract concept) to the devil ( an unreal being, another abstract concept) and wait to be rich and famous for that ( more abstract concepts). That belongs to the Dr Fausto age.
Please, religion has done much harm in this world thanks to the man and women who uses it as a weapon. Try that your belief be to good,generous and humild. I am trying.
This is the end ;)
[Budred] Friday, July 22, 2011 10:27:24 AM
I was attempting to research my own question and apparently it was the Pope who claimed there was
no physical hell. I guess the bible does discuss it. Just ignore my question because I really don't care anymore.
I'm spending way too much time on something I have no use for. To each his own no matter his/her beliefs. My
criticism or sarcasm is towards religion not those who practice it. Even if some of my posts seem like personal
attacks on any one person they are not meant to be taken that way. Sometimes I resond on impulse and anger
without thinking through what I'm writing and go against my own beliefs. I apologize for that. In a stable mindset
I truly believe "To each his own". I do not judge and I do not hate. I preach tolerance as the key to peace.
Unfortunately too many people are intolerant of others and believe their beliefs are the way it should be. Well, it's
not. We all have our own mind and were all free to use it as we see fit. Peace all! Love ya'.(LOL) [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by Budred from Friday, July 22, 2011 9:42:24 AM)
Budred wrote:
I was hoping to get responses from some of you on the video I posted and instead I got this.
There was so much back and forth I'm wondering if many of you even saw it. I'd post it again but
maybe you guys just don't want to respond. Either or it's cool.
Maybe someone will comment on this. It's not about promoting anti-religion, I'm looking for genuine
opinions.
I was watching a TV show about religion and it was mentioned that Catholics and the vatican made up
the story about hell, and basically admitted it doesn't exist. Has anyone here heard this? I've never read the bible
nor will I but to anyone who has can you tell me where in the bible(Old Testament) it describes or talks about
hell? Does anyone have knowledge of the Vatican actually admitting this? If it were to be true why should we believe
anything the Vatican tells us about religion or god? Anyone? Edited at: Friday, July 22, 2011 9:44:24 AM
[Budred] Friday, July 22, 2011 9:52:37 AM
A computer doesn't have a brain so I can't imagine it will ever have human thought.
It can only do what it's programmed to so there can never be human emotion only reaction.
It can never create evil only replicate it. Don't fear the computer, fear man, the real root of all evil.
. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by heimda11 from Friday, July 22, 2011 12:43:44 AM)
heimda11 wrote:
...sooo what about super computers? If we can't agree on animals lets complicate the conversations even further. Can or will binary code generate emotion, free will and ultimately evil? Surely a super computer can be programmed (or even program itself) for self perpetuation, which is the primary responsibility of all carbon based life forms.
Since sense of humor is arguably the highest form of intellegence, maybe the question should be, do animals have a sense of humor? When I was having a few beers yesterday I swear my friend's dog smiled at me.
[Budred] Friday, July 22, 2011 9:42:24 AM
I was hoping to get responses from some of you on the video I posted and instead I got this.
There was so much back and forth I'm wondering if many of you even saw it. I'd post it again but
maybe you guys just don't want to respond. Either or it's cool.
Maybe someone will comment on this. It's not about promoting anti-religion, I'm looking for genuine
opinions.
I was watching a TV show about religion and it was mentioned that Catholics and the vatican made up
the story about hell, and basically admitted it doesn't exist. Has anyone here heard this? I've never read the bible
nor will I but to anyone who has can you tell me where in the bible(Old Testament) it describes or talks about
hell? Does anyone have knowledge of the Vatican actually admitting this? If it were to be true why should we believe
anything the Vatican tells us about religion or god? Anyone? Edited at: Friday, July 22, 2011 9:44:24 AM
[Head banger] Friday, July 22, 2011 9:40:53 AM
I sugest some of you check out the incarnations of imortality series by piers anthony. its fiction, but some interesting insight into religion thruought, and an entertaining read.
[heimda11] Friday, July 22, 2011 12:43:44 AM
...sooo what about super computers? If we can't agree on animals lets complicate the conversations even further. Can or will binary code generate emotion, free will and ultimately evil? Surely a super computer can be programmed (or even program itself) for self perpetuation, which is the primary responsibility of all carbon based life forms.
Since sense of humor is arguably the highest form of intellegence, maybe the question should be, do animals have a sense of humor? When I was having a few beers yesterday I swear my friend's dog smiled at me.
[.] Thursday, July 21, 2011 7:30:13 PM
If even adults at times can't understand why they're being taken to the doctor, and will not accept or understand any explanation, I don't think you can say the pet is doing anything different. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by thekissofjudas from Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:38:42 PM)
thekissofjudas wrote:
A kid can understand if you explain it this. A PET CAN´T
. wrote:
Haven't you taken a kid to the doctor and the kid just be a miserable little weasel?
Same thing with spoiled pets. Take any human out of their comfort zone and they'll kick and scream like they're being hurt.
Birds build very complicated nests out of materials they pick. Muddobbers do too. Otters use rocks to bash oysters. Monkeys at a zoo actually pick human hairs and use them as dental floss! So they too create change in their environment by the way of tools. It's the mere level of change we create that differentiates us from them. This is a much more science-driven approach than the previous more mythological arguments.
thekissofjudas wrote:
Animals do not know what is evil, something human. A concept. An animal can discuss like we are doing about something abstract. That is all.They cannot analyze and discuss. They react.
Take your pet to the vet. The pet see the vet as someone who can hurt it ( evil) and try to avoid him. But the vet want to help it.
Evil is a concept. Concept is a fruit of a brain, an human brain. That is all
. wrote:
Both New and Old Testaments can and will be turned into whatever it is someone wants to turn them into, so yes, it's a very circular discussion, this Good/Evil discussion. It's also very easy to have such conversations degenerate rather quickly, thekissofjudas ;-)
The arrow of time points one way only and entropy goes along with it.
But I have to say that animals understand Evil very well. Better than humans, in fact. It's true that dogs and other animals can sense a threat from specific people who, to us, don't seem to be doing anything wrong.
(Quoting Message by thekissofjudas from Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:04:07 PM)
thekissofjudas wrote:
We create culture and its meaning, not only objects. We cannot live without objects, like animals. They are part of our enviroment. How much you attach to the object and their symbolic meaning, power, money, etc is the problem.
Evil is what divide, destroy, pervert. Animal dont have a brain to understand that.
They cannot evaluate relations like us, they are not mother and father, cousin, boss and the like.
Evil make us see we have to anything to survive and enjoy, without feeling nothing for the rest. Evil is selfishness to the ultimate consequences. Stupids are those who think there is someone interested on buying soul, lol.
Well, meanings are dead with who have written? No. The new testament is not so fresh, the texts are related to a civilzition that is dead, too.
Genesis told the world of other times, but told the world of man's psychis. Knwoledgement equals death, end of innocent, lack of protection from the leader of the tribe.
It is enough for me. Devil and its troupe are just a bunch of nightmare for ignorants.
Good and evil too much to discuss in metal band fourm.
I love Judas Priest.
They are great musicians, relevant musicians.
Philosophy is other thing. (Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:48:20 PM)
. wrote:
What is Evil to you?
What harms you and hurts you.
What is Good to you?
What protects and loves you.
Humans react just the same as animals. We just communicate differently. Our upbringing and faith in making all of these objects we are surrounded by makes us foolishly think we're better.
As we depend on objects for our very own survival when animals just rely on their physical and social skills, it makes me think we actually are devolving instead of evolving.
I don't think that in reading the Genesis you will uncover anything. The Bible is but a mere picking of writings, some like the Genesis, created centuries or a couple of millenia before. They were relevant in their time, for their very limited and specific audience. The Old Testament was to be read in an environment such as a synagogue and by people who could understand what was really being meant, and mainly, a male audience (I don't think women were allowed to learn how to read and write).
Genesis can be analized to death and you can reach any conclusion you want because the real meanings have died along with the people who wrote it. The New Testament is far more relevant, IMO.
(Quoting Message by thekissofjudas from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:25:27 PM)
thekissofjudas wrote:
i think that the point is that you mentioned Discovery channerl and other USA channel that manipulate the scientific knowledgement and blurred the reality:
feelings like anger, fear, etc are no thought neither reason. They react, and is their right, they need to survive. We have a brain that has evolutioned, thanks to a God/ Nature maybe, but we are animals, with intelligence and intellegence discovers the evil. That is the nature of the sin, read the Genesis. It is quite simple to understand, we know evil now. (Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:17:08 PM)
. wrote:
I agree with you, the occultism doesn't really interest me for the simple fact that it's just a bunch of excuses for whatever (birds of a feather)...but since it captivates the imagination of people and tends to play with their beliefs and ingrained prejudices, I guess it has some glamor to it....therefore so many metal bands use these outdated bronze age symbolisms on their covers.
Animals have feelings. They feel jealous, they trick you, they are happy and sad. It's that we, as humans, are losing our empathy with the natural world. Unless you handle animals on a daily basis, like on a farm, you really would think that they just act and have none of those traits we consider human.
thekissofjudas wrote:
Nature may be considered good for itself, for being the ultimate source of live, then man and woman see GOOD... Moral is attained to man. Nature is life and death, nature is considered the ruler and source of all. Evil is only human,evil is something born from withit the human soul, betrayal, greed, envy...animals have those feeling? Absurd... where is the evil in Nature? Only man tagged animal behave as good and evil and it is totally absurd. Animal dont understand, think and choose, they only act.. I know about the svastika and the fork. I know many things of the ocultism, that is the reason I am not interested in it any more ;) just be human
(Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:00:12 PM)
. wrote:
And what if nature is evil too?
You say God is Nature and immediately state it's inherently Good, and that the Devil is Evil. But there is plenty of "evil" in nature.
If you ever watched Discovery or National Geographic, you can see there is plenty of horror in nature and if Humans are to do some of the same things that animals do then Humans are "doing the Devil's work": raping their underlings and their young, killing them, killing others, and using their bodily fluids to mark territory. Animals also kill for the thrill, not just to eat. Animals, such as rats and rabbits, are always sexually aroused and will multiply fast and they don't care if they are humping their own kin. Wasps can implant eggs on worms and when they hatch they eat their host alive.
Yet, rabbits are the Eastern European (pagan) symbol for Easter.
If anyone pays attention to symbols, what is the pitchfork supposed to mean anyway? Or the swastika? EVIL?
Yet, both are ultimate symbols of GOOD in Asian cultures. Shiva holds a pitchfork.
There is more to talking about religion than what the tv indoctrinates you with, even if I used television channels as an example.
thekissofjudas wrote:
Well, people, humanity lost many energies and lives fighting during thousands of years for religious and political causes, that are the same. Stop this stupity, if you want peace, justice and a world where every child can grow with dignity, stop the evil inside your heart. A God who punishes, a devil who deceives, people who sold their soul to something ureal...a lot of rubbish.
One priest told my mother that God does not send anybody to hell, God loves all people, forgives every error...that priest was removed from our church. And that idea stuck to me.
If there a God, he/she has to be tolerant enough to understand us all, we are creation of that Being. Devil is just a figure to design evil, as God is another to design the nature.
I believe in that God I mentioned, but think that most religious, satanism itself, intoxicated and divided innocent people. Metal uses symbols and are symbols that shock mediocre people. Stop ocultism and all those idiocy, I have studied that, and found a lot of old supertision. Be aware, we have to be aware that only man and woman can be God here to change the world. WAR, HUNGER, CONTAMINATION ARE FAR MORE IMPORTANT that the ignorant who rants about Priest.
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 2:36:22 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:07:24 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:26:31 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:56:36 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:05:44 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:19:47 PM
[.] Thursday, July 21, 2011 7:23:05 PM
Perhaps giraffes are evil. With evil thoughts they may be eating all the leafs on a tree so the other giraffes will die of starvation. heheheh (plagiarism....)
We (humans) know WE can create concepts. We, however, don't know if the cat or the dog - or the giraffe - is creating concepts and talking to the others of their kin in their own specific language.about said concepts. If you don't know the language and the mentality, how do you know what they're saying to each other? They have brains too, only their brains are geared to their own world, kinda like us humans have a brain geared towards our world, how we socialize with each other and deal with the challenges we are presented with.
Sorry but animals dont understand the concept of evil as we do.
We have a brain who creates concepts. They havent that tool of abstraction. Evil is human. Only human can do evil
. wrote:
Haven't you taken a kid to the doctor and the kid just be a miserable little weasel?
Same thing with spoiled pets. Take any human out of their comfort zone and they'll kick and scream like they're being hurt.
Birds build very complicated nests out of materials they pick. Muddobbers do too. Otters use rocks to bash oysters. Monkeys at a zoo actually pick human hairs and use them as dental floss! So they too create change in their environment by the way of tools. It's the mere level of change we create that differentiates us from them. This is a much more science-driven approach than the previous more mythological arguments.
thekissofjudas wrote:
Animals do not know what is evil, something human. A concept. An animal can discuss like we are doing about something abstract. That is all.They cannot analyze and discuss. They react.
Take your pet to the vet. The pet see the vet as someone who can hurt it ( evil) and try to avoid him. But the vet want to help it.
Evil is a concept. Concept is a fruit of a brain, an human brain. That is all
. wrote:
Both New and Old Testaments can and will be turned into whatever it is someone wants to turn them into, so yes, it's a very circular discussion, this Good/Evil discussion. It's also very easy to have such conversations degenerate rather quickly, thekissofjudas ;-)
The arrow of time points one way only and entropy goes along with it.
But I have to say that animals understand Evil very well. Better than humans, in fact. It's true that dogs and other animals can sense a threat from specific people who, to us, don't seem to be doing anything wrong.
(Quoting Message by thekissofjudas from Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:04:07 PM)
thekissofjudas wrote:
We create culture and its meaning, not only objects. We cannot live without objects, like animals. They are part of our enviroment. How much you attach to the object and their symbolic meaning, power, money, etc is the problem.
Evil is what divide, destroy, pervert. Animal dont have a brain to understand that.
They cannot evaluate relations like us, they are not mother and father, cousin, boss and the like.
Evil make us see we have to anything to survive and enjoy, without feeling nothing for the rest. Evil is selfishness to the ultimate consequences. Stupids are those who think there is someone interested on buying soul, lol.
Well, meanings are dead with who have written? No. The new testament is not so fresh, the texts are related to a civilzition that is dead, too.
Genesis told the world of other times, but told the world of man's psychis. Knwoledgement equals death, end of innocent, lack of protection from the leader of the tribe.
It is enough for me. Devil and its troupe are just a bunch of nightmare for ignorants.
Good and evil too much to discuss in metal band fourm.
I love Judas Priest.
They are great musicians, relevant musicians.
Philosophy is other thing. (Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:48:20 PM)
. wrote:
What is Evil to you?
What harms you and hurts you.
What is Good to you?
What protects and loves you.
Humans react just the same as animals. We just communicate differently. Our upbringing and faith in making all of these objects we are surrounded by makes us foolishly think we're better.
As we depend on objects for our very own survival when animals just rely on their physical and social skills, it makes me think we actually are devolving instead of evolving.
I don't think that in reading the Genesis you will uncover anything. The Bible is but a mere picking of writings, some like the Genesis, created centuries or a couple of millenia before. They were relevant in their time, for their very limited and specific audience. The Old Testament was to be read in an environment such as a synagogue and by people who could understand what was really being meant, and mainly, a male audience (I don't think women were allowed to learn how to read and write).
Genesis can be analized to death and you can reach any conclusion you want because the real meanings have died along with the people who wrote it. The New Testament is far more relevant, IMO.
(Quoting Message by thekissofjudas from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:25:27 PM)
thekissofjudas wrote:
i think that the point is that you mentioned Discovery channerl and other USA channel that manipulate the scientific knowledgement and blurred the reality:
feelings like anger, fear, etc are no thought neither reason. They react, and is their right, they need to survive. We have a brain that has evolutioned, thanks to a God/ Nature maybe, but we are animals, with intelligence and intellegence discovers the evil. That is the nature of the sin, read the Genesis. It is quite simple to understand, we know evil now. (Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:17:08 PM)
. wrote:
I agree with you, the occultism doesn't really interest me for the simple fact that it's just a bunch of excuses for whatever (birds of a feather)...but since it captivates the imagination of people and tends to play with their beliefs and ingrained prejudices, I guess it has some glamor to it....therefore so many metal bands use these outdated bronze age symbolisms on their covers.
Animals have feelings. They feel jealous, they trick you, they are happy and sad. It's that we, as humans, are losing our empathy with the natural world. Unless you handle animals on a daily basis, like on a farm, you really would think that they just act and have none of those traits we consider human.
thekissofjudas wrote:
Nature may be considered good for itself, for being the ultimate source of live, then man and woman see GOOD... Moral is attained to man. Nature is life and death, nature is considered the ruler and source of all. Evil is only human,evil is something born from withit the human soul, betrayal, greed, envy...animals have those feeling? Absurd... where is the evil in Nature? Only man tagged animal behave as good and evil and it is totally absurd. Animal dont understand, think and choose, they only act.. I know about the svastika and the fork. I know many things of the ocultism, that is the reason I am not interested in it any more ;) just be human
(Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:00:12 PM)
. wrote:
And what if nature is evil too?
You say God is Nature and immediately state it's inherently Good, and that the Devil is Evil. But there is plenty of "evil" in nature.
If you ever watched Discovery or National Geographic, you can see there is plenty of horror in nature and if Humans are to do some of the same things that animals do then Humans are "doing the Devil's work": raping their underlings and their young, killing them, killing others, and using their bodily fluids to mark territory. Animals also kill for the thrill, not just to eat. Animals, such as rats and rabbits, are always sexually aroused and will multiply fast and they don't care if they are humping their own kin. Wasps can implant eggs on worms and when they hatch they eat their host alive.
Yet, rabbits are the Eastern European (pagan) symbol for Easter.
If anyone pays attention to symbols, what is the pitchfork supposed to mean anyway? Or the swastika? EVIL?
Yet, both are ultimate symbols of GOOD in Asian cultures. Shiva holds a pitchfork.
There is more to talking about religion than what the tv indoctrinates you with, even if I used television channels as an example.
thekissofjudas wrote:
Well, people, humanity lost many energies and lives fighting during thousands of years for religious and political causes, that are the same. Stop this stupity, if you want peace, justice and a world where every child can grow with dignity, stop the evil inside your heart. A God who punishes, a devil who deceives, people who sold their soul to something ureal...a lot of rubbish.
One priest told my mother that God does not send anybody to hell, God loves all people, forgives every error...that priest was removed from our church. And that idea stuck to me.
If there a God, he/she has to be tolerant enough to understand us all, we are creation of that Being. Devil is just a figure to design evil, as God is another to design the nature.
I believe in that God I mentioned, but think that most religious, satanism itself, intoxicated and divided innocent people. Metal uses symbols and are symbols that shock mediocre people. Stop ocultism and all those idiocy, I have studied that, and found a lot of old supertision. Be aware, we have to be aware that only man and woman can be God here to change the world. WAR, HUNGER, CONTAMINATION ARE FAR MORE IMPORTANT that the ignorant who rants about Priest.
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 2:36:22 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:07:24 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:26:31 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:56:36 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:05:44 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:19:47 PM
[heimda11] Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:44:12 PM
Enjoying the dialogue. We Judas Priest fans rock.
The ruling forces and power of belief are marching us inexcoribly toward the end of an age, not cataclysmic Ragnarok, at least not yet. I think the Harlot of Babylon from Revelations is Free Masonry. Free Masonry at its best is tolerant, rational, replete with wise representation and prepared to disseminate historical perspective to a secular populace via the information age. It is the "Dawning of the Age of Aquarius". Pisces, the fish, symbol of Christianity, will thrive in the "water world" but so will many other perspectives. The New World Order or One World Government is being implemented. This is the stage being set for a man who is going to claim to be the Anti-Christ. (I have a strange hope the Anti-Christ will actually work DIRECTLY for the Almighty but certainly not holding my breath on that.) Many consider the United States of America the third beast of Revelation. America is consciously being dumbed down, but we are healthy and strong, perfect for empire. What am I going to do about it? I'm going to try to pay my rent every month and continue to be a loving Father for my three sons to the best of my ability. On bent knee I offer my sword and my prayers to the Almighty in this life and, if so fortunate, in any further adventures.
[thekissofjudas] Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:40:19 PM
Sorry but animals dont understand the concept of evil as we do.
We have a brain who creates concepts. They havent that tool of abstraction. Evil is human. Only human can do evil
Haven't you taken a kid to the doctor and the kid just be a miserable little weasel?
Same thing with spoiled pets. Take any human out of their comfort zone and they'll kick and scream like they're being hurt.
Birds build very complicated nests out of materials they pick. Muddobbers do too. Otters use rocks to bash oysters. Monkeys at a zoo actually pick human hairs and use them as dental floss! So they too create change in their environment by the way of tools. It's the mere level of change we create that differentiates us from them. This is a much more science-driven approach than the previous more mythological arguments.
thekissofjudas wrote:
Animals do not know what is evil, something human. A concept. An animal can discuss like we are doing about something abstract. That is all.They cannot analyze and discuss. They react.
Take your pet to the vet. The pet see the vet as someone who can hurt it ( evil) and try to avoid him. But the vet want to help it.
Evil is a concept. Concept is a fruit of a brain, an human brain. That is all
. wrote:
Both New and Old Testaments can and will be turned into whatever it is someone wants to turn them into, so yes, it's a very circular discussion, this Good/Evil discussion. It's also very easy to have such conversations degenerate rather quickly, thekissofjudas ;-)
The arrow of time points one way only and entropy goes along with it.
But I have to say that animals understand Evil very well. Better than humans, in fact. It's true that dogs and other animals can sense a threat from specific people who, to us, don't seem to be doing anything wrong.
(Quoting Message by thekissofjudas from Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:04:07 PM)
thekissofjudas wrote:
We create culture and its meaning, not only objects. We cannot live without objects, like animals. They are part of our enviroment. How much you attach to the object and their symbolic meaning, power, money, etc is the problem.
Evil is what divide, destroy, pervert. Animal dont have a brain to understand that.
They cannot evaluate relations like us, they are not mother and father, cousin, boss and the like.
Evil make us see we have to anything to survive and enjoy, without feeling nothing for the rest. Evil is selfishness to the ultimate consequences. Stupids are those who think there is someone interested on buying soul, lol.
Well, meanings are dead with who have written? No. The new testament is not so fresh, the texts are related to a civilzition that is dead, too.
Genesis told the world of other times, but told the world of man's psychis. Knwoledgement equals death, end of innocent, lack of protection from the leader of the tribe.
It is enough for me. Devil and its troupe are just a bunch of nightmare for ignorants.
Good and evil too much to discuss in metal band fourm.
I love Judas Priest.
They are great musicians, relevant musicians.
Philosophy is other thing. (Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:48:20 PM)
. wrote:
What is Evil to you?
What harms you and hurts you.
What is Good to you?
What protects and loves you.
Humans react just the same as animals. We just communicate differently. Our upbringing and faith in making all of these objects we are surrounded by makes us foolishly think we're better.
As we depend on objects for our very own survival when animals just rely on their physical and social skills, it makes me think we actually are devolving instead of evolving.
I don't think that in reading the Genesis you will uncover anything. The Bible is but a mere picking of writings, some like the Genesis, created centuries or a couple of millenia before. They were relevant in their time, for their very limited and specific audience. The Old Testament was to be read in an environment such as a synagogue and by people who could understand what was really being meant, and mainly, a male audience (I don't think women were allowed to learn how to read and write).
Genesis can be analized to death and you can reach any conclusion you want because the real meanings have died along with the people who wrote it. The New Testament is far more relevant, IMO.
(Quoting Message by thekissofjudas from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:25:27 PM)
thekissofjudas wrote:
i think that the point is that you mentioned Discovery channerl and other USA channel that manipulate the scientific knowledgement and blurred the reality:
feelings like anger, fear, etc are no thought neither reason. They react, and is their right, they need to survive. We have a brain that has evolutioned, thanks to a God/ Nature maybe, but we are animals, with intelligence and intellegence discovers the evil. That is the nature of the sin, read the Genesis. It is quite simple to understand, we know evil now. (Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:17:08 PM)
. wrote:
I agree with you, the occultism doesn't really interest me for the simple fact that it's just a bunch of excuses for whatever (birds of a feather)...but since it captivates the imagination of people and tends to play with their beliefs and ingrained prejudices, I guess it has some glamor to it....therefore so many metal bands use these outdated bronze age symbolisms on their covers.
Animals have feelings. They feel jealous, they trick you, they are happy and sad. It's that we, as humans, are losing our empathy with the natural world. Unless you handle animals on a daily basis, like on a farm, you really would think that they just act and have none of those traits we consider human.
thekissofjudas wrote:
Nature may be considered good for itself, for being the ultimate source of live, then man and woman see GOOD... Moral is attained to man. Nature is life and death, nature is considered the ruler and source of all. Evil is only human,evil is something born from withit the human soul, betrayal, greed, envy...animals have those feeling? Absurd... where is the evil in Nature? Only man tagged animal behave as good and evil and it is totally absurd. Animal dont understand, think and choose, they only act.. I know about the svastika and the fork. I know many things of the ocultism, that is the reason I am not interested in it any more ;) just be human
(Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:00:12 PM)
. wrote:
And what if nature is evil too?
You say God is Nature and immediately state it's inherently Good, and that the Devil is Evil. But there is plenty of "evil" in nature.
If you ever watched Discovery or National Geographic, you can see there is plenty of horror in nature and if Humans are to do some of the same things that animals do then Humans are "doing the Devil's work": raping their underlings and their young, killing them, killing others, and using their bodily fluids to mark territory. Animals also kill for the thrill, not just to eat. Animals, such as rats and rabbits, are always sexually aroused and will multiply fast and they don't care if they are humping their own kin. Wasps can implant eggs on worms and when they hatch they eat their host alive.
Yet, rabbits are the Eastern European (pagan) symbol for Easter.
If anyone pays attention to symbols, what is the pitchfork supposed to mean anyway? Or the swastika? EVIL?
Yet, both are ultimate symbols of GOOD in Asian cultures. Shiva holds a pitchfork.
There is more to talking about religion than what the tv indoctrinates you with, even if I used television channels as an example.
thekissofjudas wrote:
Well, people, humanity lost many energies and lives fighting during thousands of years for religious and political causes, that are the same. Stop this stupity, if you want peace, justice and a world where every child can grow with dignity, stop the evil inside your heart. A God who punishes, a devil who deceives, people who sold their soul to something ureal...a lot of rubbish.
One priest told my mother that God does not send anybody to hell, God loves all people, forgives every error...that priest was removed from our church. And that idea stuck to me.
If there a God, he/she has to be tolerant enough to understand us all, we are creation of that Being. Devil is just a figure to design evil, as God is another to design the nature.
I believe in that God I mentioned, but think that most religious, satanism itself, intoxicated and divided innocent people. Metal uses symbols and are symbols that shock mediocre people. Stop ocultism and all those idiocy, I have studied that, and found a lot of old supertision. Be aware, we have to be aware that only man and woman can be God here to change the world. WAR, HUNGER, CONTAMINATION ARE FAR MORE IMPORTANT that the ignorant who rants about Priest.
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 2:36:22 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:07:24 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:26:31 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:56:36 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:05:44 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:19:47 PM
[.] Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:39:47 PM
Can't we go back to discussing religion?
It's less complicated than discussing the nature of time LOL
The time is maybe circular, we ignore a lot of things.
But the old and new testament can be studied, compared and related to the cultures of their time. There are paremeters for all that. It is not so simple as to manipulate things as it seems.
Just want to listen Judas once more.
. wrote:
Both New and Old Testaments can and will be turned into whatever it is someone wants to turn them into, so yes, it's a very circular discussion, this Good/Evil discussion. It's also very easy to have such conversations degenerate rather quickly, thekissofjudas ;-)
The arrow of time points one way only and entropy goes along with it.
But I have to say that animals understand Evil very well. Better than humans, in fact. It's true that dogs and other animals can sense a threat from specific people who, to us, don't seem to be doing anything wrong.
And yes, Judas Priest are very good musicians. That's why I like them so much. I feel spiritually uplifted when I hear their music, but without the religious connotation. I get high on their guitars and that voice! That YT vid with the Painkiller played backwards just made think what great musicians they are when their stuff played backwards sounds sooooooooooooooo awesome!
(Quoting Message by thekissofjudas from Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:04:07 PM)
thekissofjudas wrote:
We create culture and its meaning, not only objects. We cannot live without objects, like animals. They are part of our enviroment. How much you attach to the object and their symbolic meaning, power, money, etc is the problem.
Evil is what divide, destroy, pervert. Animal dont have a brain to understand that.
They cannot evaluate relations like us, they are not mother and father, cousin, boss and the like.
Evil make us see we have to anything to survive and enjoy, without feeling nothing for the rest. Evil is selfishness to the ultimate consequences. Stupids are those who think there is someone interested on buying soul, lol.
Well, meanings are dead with who have written? No. The new testament is not so fresh, the texts are related to a civilzition that is dead, too.
Genesis told the world of other times, but told the world of man's psychis. Knwoledgement equals death, end of innocent, lack of protection from the leader of the tribe.
It is enough for me. Devil and its troupe are just a bunch of nightmare for ignorants.
Good and evil too much to discuss in metal band fourm.
I love Judas Priest.
They are great musicians, relevant musicians.
Philosophy is other thing. (Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:48:20 PM)
. wrote:
What is Evil to you?
What harms you and hurts you.
What is Good to you?
What protects and loves you.
Humans react just the same as animals. We just communicate differently. Our upbringing and faith in making all of these objects we are surrounded by makes us foolishly think we're better.
As we depend on objects for our very own survival when animals just rely on their physical and social skills, it makes me think we actually are devolving instead of evolving.
I don't think that in reading the Genesis you will uncover anything. The Bible is but a mere picking of writings, some like the Genesis, created centuries or a couple of millenia before. They were relevant in their time, for their very limited and specific audience. The Old Testament was to be read in an environment such as a synagogue and by people who could understand what was really being meant, and mainly, a male audience (I don't think women were allowed to learn how to read and write).
Genesis can be analized to death and you can reach any conclusion you want because the real meanings have died along with the people who wrote it. The New Testament is far more relevant, IMO.
(Quoting Message by thekissofjudas from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:25:27 PM)
thekissofjudas wrote:
i think that the point is that you mentioned Discovery channerl and other USA channel that manipulate the scientific knowledgement and blurred the reality:
feelings like anger, fear, etc are no thought neither reason. They react, and is their right, they need to survive. We have a brain that has evolutioned, thanks to a God/ Nature maybe, but we are animals, with intelligence and intellegence discovers the evil. That is the nature of the sin, read the Genesis. It is quite simple to understand, we know evil now. (Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:17:08 PM)
. wrote:
I agree with you, the occultism doesn't really interest me for the simple fact that it's just a bunch of excuses for whatever (birds of a feather)...but since it captivates the imagination of people and tends to play with their beliefs and ingrained prejudices, I guess it has some glamor to it....therefore so many metal bands use these outdated bronze age symbolisms on their covers.
Animals have feelings. They feel jealous, they trick you, they are happy and sad. It's that we, as humans, are losing our empathy with the natural world. Unless you handle animals on a daily basis, like on a farm, you really would think that they just act and have none of those traits we consider human.
thekissofjudas wrote:
Nature may be considered good for itself, for being the ultimate source of live, then man and woman see GOOD... Moral is attained to man. Nature is life and death, nature is considered the ruler and source of all. Evil is only human,evil is something born from withit the human soul, betrayal, greed, envy...animals have those feeling? Absurd... where is the evil in Nature? Only man tagged animal behave as good and evil and it is totally absurd. Animal dont understand, think and choose, they only act.. I know about the svastika and the fork. I know many things of the ocultism, that is the reason I am not interested in it any more ;) just be human
(Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:00:12 PM)
. wrote:
And what if nature is evil too?
You say God is Nature and immediately state it's inherently Good, and that the Devil is Evil. But there is plenty of "evil" in nature.
If you ever watched Discovery or National Geographic, you can see there is plenty of horror in nature and if Humans are to do some of the same things that animals do then Humans are "doing the Devil's work": raping their underlings and their young, killing them, killing others, and using their bodily fluids to mark territory. Animals also kill for the thrill, not just to eat. Animals, such as rats and rabbits, are always sexually aroused and will multiply fast and they don't care if they are humping their own kin. Wasps can implant eggs on worms and when they hatch they eat their host alive.
Yet, rabbits are the Eastern European (pagan) symbol for Easter.
If anyone pays attention to symbols, what is the pitchfork supposed to mean anyway? Or the swastika? EVIL?
Yet, both are ultimate symbols of GOOD in Asian cultures. Shiva holds a pitchfork.
There is more to talking about religion than what the tv indoctrinates you with, even if I used television channels as an example.
thekissofjudas wrote:
Well, people, humanity lost many energies and lives fighting during thousands of years for religious and political causes, that are the same. Stop this stupity, if you want peace, justice and a world where every child can grow with dignity, stop the evil inside your heart. A God who punishes, a devil who deceives, people who sold their soul to something ureal...a lot of rubbish.
One priest told my mother that God does not send anybody to hell, God loves all people, forgives every error...that priest was removed from our church. And that idea stuck to me.
If there a God, he/she has to be tolerant enough to understand us all, we are creation of that Being. Devil is just a figure to design evil, as God is another to design the nature.
I believe in that God I mentioned, but think that most religious, satanism itself, intoxicated and divided innocent people. Metal uses symbols and are symbols that shock mediocre people. Stop ocultism and all those idiocy, I have studied that, and found a lot of old supertision. Be aware, we have to be aware that only man and woman can be God here to change the world. WAR, HUNGER, CONTAMINATION ARE FAR MORE IMPORTANT that the ignorant who rants about Priest.
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 2:36:22 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:07:24 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:26:31 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:56:36 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:05:44 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:19:47 PM Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:25:38 PM
[thekissofjudas] Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:38:42 PM
A kid can understand if you explain it this. A PET CAN´T
Haven't you taken a kid to the doctor and the kid just be a miserable little weasel?
Same thing with spoiled pets. Take any human out of their comfort zone and they'll kick and scream like they're being hurt.
Birds build very complicated nests out of materials they pick. Muddobbers do too. Otters use rocks to bash oysters. Monkeys at a zoo actually pick human hairs and use them as dental floss! So they too create change in their environment by the way of tools. It's the mere level of change we create that differentiates us from them. This is a much more science-driven approach than the previous more mythological arguments.
thekissofjudas wrote:
Animals do not know what is evil, something human. A concept. An animal can discuss like we are doing about something abstract. That is all.They cannot analyze and discuss. They react.
Take your pet to the vet. The pet see the vet as someone who can hurt it ( evil) and try to avoid him. But the vet want to help it.
Evil is a concept. Concept is a fruit of a brain, an human brain. That is all
. wrote:
Both New and Old Testaments can and will be turned into whatever it is someone wants to turn them into, so yes, it's a very circular discussion, this Good/Evil discussion. It's also very easy to have such conversations degenerate rather quickly, thekissofjudas ;-)
The arrow of time points one way only and entropy goes along with it.
But I have to say that animals understand Evil very well. Better than humans, in fact. It's true that dogs and other animals can sense a threat from specific people who, to us, don't seem to be doing anything wrong.
(Quoting Message by thekissofjudas from Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:04:07 PM)
thekissofjudas wrote:
We create culture and its meaning, not only objects. We cannot live without objects, like animals. They are part of our enviroment. How much you attach to the object and their symbolic meaning, power, money, etc is the problem.
Evil is what divide, destroy, pervert. Animal dont have a brain to understand that.
They cannot evaluate relations like us, they are not mother and father, cousin, boss and the like.
Evil make us see we have to anything to survive and enjoy, without feeling nothing for the rest. Evil is selfishness to the ultimate consequences. Stupids are those who think there is someone interested on buying soul, lol.
Well, meanings are dead with who have written? No. The new testament is not so fresh, the texts are related to a civilzition that is dead, too.
Genesis told the world of other times, but told the world of man's psychis. Knwoledgement equals death, end of innocent, lack of protection from the leader of the tribe.
It is enough for me. Devil and its troupe are just a bunch of nightmare for ignorants.
Good and evil too much to discuss in metal band fourm.
I love Judas Priest.
They are great musicians, relevant musicians.
Philosophy is other thing. (Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:48:20 PM)
. wrote:
What is Evil to you?
What harms you and hurts you.
What is Good to you?
What protects and loves you.
Humans react just the same as animals. We just communicate differently. Our upbringing and faith in making all of these objects we are surrounded by makes us foolishly think we're better.
As we depend on objects for our very own survival when animals just rely on their physical and social skills, it makes me think we actually are devolving instead of evolving.
I don't think that in reading the Genesis you will uncover anything. The Bible is but a mere picking of writings, some like the Genesis, created centuries or a couple of millenia before. They were relevant in their time, for their very limited and specific audience. The Old Testament was to be read in an environment such as a synagogue and by people who could understand what was really being meant, and mainly, a male audience (I don't think women were allowed to learn how to read and write).
Genesis can be analized to death and you can reach any conclusion you want because the real meanings have died along with the people who wrote it. The New Testament is far more relevant, IMO.
(Quoting Message by thekissofjudas from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:25:27 PM)
thekissofjudas wrote:
i think that the point is that you mentioned Discovery channerl and other USA channel that manipulate the scientific knowledgement and blurred the reality:
feelings like anger, fear, etc are no thought neither reason. They react, and is their right, they need to survive. We have a brain that has evolutioned, thanks to a God/ Nature maybe, but we are animals, with intelligence and intellegence discovers the evil. That is the nature of the sin, read the Genesis. It is quite simple to understand, we know evil now. (Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:17:08 PM)
. wrote:
I agree with you, the occultism doesn't really interest me for the simple fact that it's just a bunch of excuses for whatever (birds of a feather)...but since it captivates the imagination of people and tends to play with their beliefs and ingrained prejudices, I guess it has some glamor to it....therefore so many metal bands use these outdated bronze age symbolisms on their covers.
Animals have feelings. They feel jealous, they trick you, they are happy and sad. It's that we, as humans, are losing our empathy with the natural world. Unless you handle animals on a daily basis, like on a farm, you really would think that they just act and have none of those traits we consider human.
thekissofjudas wrote:
Nature may be considered good for itself, for being the ultimate source of live, then man and woman see GOOD... Moral is attained to man. Nature is life and death, nature is considered the ruler and source of all. Evil is only human,evil is something born from withit the human soul, betrayal, greed, envy...animals have those feeling? Absurd... where is the evil in Nature? Only man tagged animal behave as good and evil and it is totally absurd. Animal dont understand, think and choose, they only act.. I know about the svastika and the fork. I know many things of the ocultism, that is the reason I am not interested in it any more ;) just be human
(Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:00:12 PM)
. wrote:
And what if nature is evil too?
You say God is Nature and immediately state it's inherently Good, and that the Devil is Evil. But there is plenty of "evil" in nature.
If you ever watched Discovery or National Geographic, you can see there is plenty of horror in nature and if Humans are to do some of the same things that animals do then Humans are "doing the Devil's work": raping their underlings and their young, killing them, killing others, and using their bodily fluids to mark territory. Animals also kill for the thrill, not just to eat. Animals, such as rats and rabbits, are always sexually aroused and will multiply fast and they don't care if they are humping their own kin. Wasps can implant eggs on worms and when they hatch they eat their host alive.
Yet, rabbits are the Eastern European (pagan) symbol for Easter.
If anyone pays attention to symbols, what is the pitchfork supposed to mean anyway? Or the swastika? EVIL?
Yet, both are ultimate symbols of GOOD in Asian cultures. Shiva holds a pitchfork.
There is more to talking about religion than what the tv indoctrinates you with, even if I used television channels as an example.
thekissofjudas wrote:
Well, people, humanity lost many energies and lives fighting during thousands of years for religious and political causes, that are the same. Stop this stupity, if you want peace, justice and a world where every child can grow with dignity, stop the evil inside your heart. A God who punishes, a devil who deceives, people who sold their soul to something ureal...a lot of rubbish.
One priest told my mother that God does not send anybody to hell, God loves all people, forgives every error...that priest was removed from our church. And that idea stuck to me.
If there a God, he/she has to be tolerant enough to understand us all, we are creation of that Being. Devil is just a figure to design evil, as God is another to design the nature.
I believe in that God I mentioned, but think that most religious, satanism itself, intoxicated and divided innocent people. Metal uses symbols and are symbols that shock mediocre people. Stop ocultism and all those idiocy, I have studied that, and found a lot of old supertision. Be aware, we have to be aware that only man and woman can be God here to change the world. WAR, HUNGER, CONTAMINATION ARE FAR MORE IMPORTANT that the ignorant who rants about Priest.
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 2:36:22 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:07:24 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:26:31 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:56:36 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:05:44 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:19:47 PM
[.] Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:36:53 PM
Haven't you taken a kid to the doctor and the kid just be a miserable little weasel?
Same thing with spoiled pets. Take any human out of their comfort zone and they'll kick and scream like they're being hurt.
Birds build very complicated nests out of materials they pick. Muddobbers do too. Otters use rocks to bash oysters. Monkeys at a zoo actually pick human hairs and use them as dental floss! So they too create change in their environment by the way of tools. It's the mere level of change we create that differentiates us from them. This is a much more science-driven approach than the previous more mythological arguments.
Animals do not know what is evil, something human. A concept. An animal can discuss like we are doing about something abstract. That is all.They cannot analyze and discuss. They react.
Take your pet to the vet. The pet see the vet as someone who can hurt it ( evil) and try to avoid him. But the vet want to help it.
Evil is a concept. Concept is a fruit of a brain, an human brain. That is all
. wrote:
Both New and Old Testaments can and will be turned into whatever it is someone wants to turn them into, so yes, it's a very circular discussion, this Good/Evil discussion. It's also very easy to have such conversations degenerate rather quickly, thekissofjudas ;-)
The arrow of time points one way only and entropy goes along with it.
But I have to say that animals understand Evil very well. Better than humans, in fact. It's true that dogs and other animals can sense a threat from specific people who, to us, don't seem to be doing anything wrong.
(Quoting Message by thekissofjudas from Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:04:07 PM)
thekissofjudas wrote:
We create culture and its meaning, not only objects. We cannot live without objects, like animals. They are part of our enviroment. How much you attach to the object and their symbolic meaning, power, money, etc is the problem.
Evil is what divide, destroy, pervert. Animal dont have a brain to understand that.
They cannot evaluate relations like us, they are not mother and father, cousin, boss and the like.
Evil make us see we have to anything to survive and enjoy, without feeling nothing for the rest. Evil is selfishness to the ultimate consequences. Stupids are those who think there is someone interested on buying soul, lol.
Well, meanings are dead with who have written? No. The new testament is not so fresh, the texts are related to a civilzition that is dead, too.
Genesis told the world of other times, but told the world of man's psychis. Knwoledgement equals death, end of innocent, lack of protection from the leader of the tribe.
It is enough for me. Devil and its troupe are just a bunch of nightmare for ignorants.
Good and evil too much to discuss in metal band fourm.
I love Judas Priest.
They are great musicians, relevant musicians.
Philosophy is other thing. (Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:48:20 PM)
. wrote:
What is Evil to you?
What harms you and hurts you.
What is Good to you?
What protects and loves you.
Humans react just the same as animals. We just communicate differently. Our upbringing and faith in making all of these objects we are surrounded by makes us foolishly think we're better.
As we depend on objects for our very own survival when animals just rely on their physical and social skills, it makes me think we actually are devolving instead of evolving.
I don't think that in reading the Genesis you will uncover anything. The Bible is but a mere picking of writings, some like the Genesis, created centuries or a couple of millenia before. They were relevant in their time, for their very limited and specific audience. The Old Testament was to be read in an environment such as a synagogue and by people who could understand what was really being meant, and mainly, a male audience (I don't think women were allowed to learn how to read and write).
Genesis can be analized to death and you can reach any conclusion you want because the real meanings have died along with the people who wrote it. The New Testament is far more relevant, IMO.
(Quoting Message by thekissofjudas from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:25:27 PM)
thekissofjudas wrote:
i think that the point is that you mentioned Discovery channerl and other USA channel that manipulate the scientific knowledgement and blurred the reality:
feelings like anger, fear, etc are no thought neither reason. They react, and is their right, they need to survive. We have a brain that has evolutioned, thanks to a God/ Nature maybe, but we are animals, with intelligence and intellegence discovers the evil. That is the nature of the sin, read the Genesis. It is quite simple to understand, we know evil now. (Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:17:08 PM)
. wrote:
I agree with you, the occultism doesn't really interest me for the simple fact that it's just a bunch of excuses for whatever (birds of a feather)...but since it captivates the imagination of people and tends to play with their beliefs and ingrained prejudices, I guess it has some glamor to it....therefore so many metal bands use these outdated bronze age symbolisms on their covers.
Animals have feelings. They feel jealous, they trick you, they are happy and sad. It's that we, as humans, are losing our empathy with the natural world. Unless you handle animals on a daily basis, like on a farm, you really would think that they just act and have none of those traits we consider human.
thekissofjudas wrote:
Nature may be considered good for itself, for being the ultimate source of live, then man and woman see GOOD... Moral is attained to man. Nature is life and death, nature is considered the ruler and source of all. Evil is only human,evil is something born from withit the human soul, betrayal, greed, envy...animals have those feeling? Absurd... where is the evil in Nature? Only man tagged animal behave as good and evil and it is totally absurd. Animal dont understand, think and choose, they only act.. I know about the svastika and the fork. I know many things of the ocultism, that is the reason I am not interested in it any more ;) just be human
(Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:00:12 PM)
. wrote:
And what if nature is evil too?
You say God is Nature and immediately state it's inherently Good, and that the Devil is Evil. But there is plenty of "evil" in nature.
If you ever watched Discovery or National Geographic, you can see there is plenty of horror in nature and if Humans are to do some of the same things that animals do then Humans are "doing the Devil's work": raping their underlings and their young, killing them, killing others, and using their bodily fluids to mark territory. Animals also kill for the thrill, not just to eat. Animals, such as rats and rabbits, are always sexually aroused and will multiply fast and they don't care if they are humping their own kin. Wasps can implant eggs on worms and when they hatch they eat their host alive.
Yet, rabbits are the Eastern European (pagan) symbol for Easter.
If anyone pays attention to symbols, what is the pitchfork supposed to mean anyway? Or the swastika? EVIL?
Yet, both are ultimate symbols of GOOD in Asian cultures. Shiva holds a pitchfork.
There is more to talking about religion than what the tv indoctrinates you with, even if I used television channels as an example.
thekissofjudas wrote:
Well, people, humanity lost many energies and lives fighting during thousands of years for religious and political causes, that are the same. Stop this stupity, if you want peace, justice and a world where every child can grow with dignity, stop the evil inside your heart. A God who punishes, a devil who deceives, people who sold their soul to something ureal...a lot of rubbish.
One priest told my mother that God does not send anybody to hell, God loves all people, forgives every error...that priest was removed from our church. And that idea stuck to me.
If there a God, he/she has to be tolerant enough to understand us all, we are creation of that Being. Devil is just a figure to design evil, as God is another to design the nature.
I believe in that God I mentioned, but think that most religious, satanism itself, intoxicated and divided innocent people. Metal uses symbols and are symbols that shock mediocre people. Stop ocultism and all those idiocy, I have studied that, and found a lot of old supertision. Be aware, we have to be aware that only man and woman can be God here to change the world. WAR, HUNGER, CONTAMINATION ARE FAR MORE IMPORTANT that the ignorant who rants about Priest.
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 2:36:22 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:07:24 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:26:31 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:56:36 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:05:44 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:19:47 PM
[thekissofjudas] Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:27:02 PM
The time is maybe circular, we ignore a lot of things.
But the old and new testament can be studied, compared and related to the cultures of their time. There are paremeters for all that. It is not so simple as to manipulate things as it seems.
Just want to listen Judas once more.
Both New and Old Testaments can and will be turned into whatever it is someone wants to turn them into, so yes, it's a very circular discussion, this Good/Evil discussion. It's also very easy to have such conversations degenerate rather quickly, thekissofjudas ;-)
The arrow of time points one way only and entropy goes along with it.
But I have to say that animals understand Evil very well. Better than humans, in fact. It's true that dogs and other animals can sense a threat from specific people who, to us, don't seem to be doing anything wrong.
And yes, Judas Priest are very good musicians. That's why I like them so much. I feel spiritually uplifted when I hear their music, but without the religious connotation. I get high on their guitars and that voice! That YT vid with the Painkiller played backwards just made think what great musicians they are when their stuff played backwards sounds sooooooooooooooo awesome!
(Quoting Message by thekissofjudas from Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:04:07 PM)
thekissofjudas wrote:
We create culture and its meaning, not only objects. We cannot live without objects, like animals. They are part of our enviroment. How much you attach to the object and their symbolic meaning, power, money, etc is the problem.
Evil is what divide, destroy, pervert. Animal dont have a brain to understand that.
They cannot evaluate relations like us, they are not mother and father, cousin, boss and the like.
Evil make us see we have to anything to survive and enjoy, without feeling nothing for the rest. Evil is selfishness to the ultimate consequences. Stupids are those who think there is someone interested on buying soul, lol.
Well, meanings are dead with who have written? No. The new testament is not so fresh, the texts are related to a civilzition that is dead, too.
Genesis told the world of other times, but told the world of man's psychis. Knwoledgement equals death, end of innocent, lack of protection from the leader of the tribe.
It is enough for me. Devil and its troupe are just a bunch of nightmare for ignorants.
Good and evil too much to discuss in metal band fourm.
I love Judas Priest.
They are great musicians, relevant musicians.
Philosophy is other thing. (Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:48:20 PM)
. wrote:
What is Evil to you?
What harms you and hurts you.
What is Good to you?
What protects and loves you.
Humans react just the same as animals. We just communicate differently. Our upbringing and faith in making all of these objects we are surrounded by makes us foolishly think we're better.
As we depend on objects for our very own survival when animals just rely on their physical and social skills, it makes me think we actually are devolving instead of evolving.
I don't think that in reading the Genesis you will uncover anything. The Bible is but a mere picking of writings, some like the Genesis, created centuries or a couple of millenia before. They were relevant in their time, for their very limited and specific audience. The Old Testament was to be read in an environment such as a synagogue and by people who could understand what was really being meant, and mainly, a male audience (I don't think women were allowed to learn how to read and write).
Genesis can be analized to death and you can reach any conclusion you want because the real meanings have died along with the people who wrote it. The New Testament is far more relevant, IMO.
(Quoting Message by thekissofjudas from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:25:27 PM)
thekissofjudas wrote:
i think that the point is that you mentioned Discovery channerl and other USA channel that manipulate the scientific knowledgement and blurred the reality:
feelings like anger, fear, etc are no thought neither reason. They react, and is their right, they need to survive. We have a brain that has evolutioned, thanks to a God/ Nature maybe, but we are animals, with intelligence and intellegence discovers the evil. That is the nature of the sin, read the Genesis. It is quite simple to understand, we know evil now. (Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:17:08 PM)
. wrote:
I agree with you, the occultism doesn't really interest me for the simple fact that it's just a bunch of excuses for whatever (birds of a feather)...but since it captivates the imagination of people and tends to play with their beliefs and ingrained prejudices, I guess it has some glamor to it....therefore so many metal bands use these outdated bronze age symbolisms on their covers.
Animals have feelings. They feel jealous, they trick you, they are happy and sad. It's that we, as humans, are losing our empathy with the natural world. Unless you handle animals on a daily basis, like on a farm, you really would think that they just act and have none of those traits we consider human.
thekissofjudas wrote:
Nature may be considered good for itself, for being the ultimate source of live, then man and woman see GOOD... Moral is attained to man. Nature is life and death, nature is considered the ruler and source of all. Evil is only human,evil is something born from withit the human soul, betrayal, greed, envy...animals have those feeling? Absurd... where is the evil in Nature? Only man tagged animal behave as good and evil and it is totally absurd. Animal dont understand, think and choose, they only act.. I know about the svastika and the fork. I know many things of the ocultism, that is the reason I am not interested in it any more ;) just be human
(Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:00:12 PM)
. wrote:
And what if nature is evil too?
You say God is Nature and immediately state it's inherently Good, and that the Devil is Evil. But there is plenty of "evil" in nature.
If you ever watched Discovery or National Geographic, you can see there is plenty of horror in nature and if Humans are to do some of the same things that animals do then Humans are "doing the Devil's work": raping their underlings and their young, killing them, killing others, and using their bodily fluids to mark territory. Animals also kill for the thrill, not just to eat. Animals, such as rats and rabbits, are always sexually aroused and will multiply fast and they don't care if they are humping their own kin. Wasps can implant eggs on worms and when they hatch they eat their host alive.
Yet, rabbits are the Eastern European (pagan) symbol for Easter.
If anyone pays attention to symbols, what is the pitchfork supposed to mean anyway? Or the swastika? EVIL?
Yet, both are ultimate symbols of GOOD in Asian cultures. Shiva holds a pitchfork.
There is more to talking about religion than what the tv indoctrinates you with, even if I used television channels as an example.
thekissofjudas wrote:
Well, people, humanity lost many energies and lives fighting during thousands of years for religious and political causes, that are the same. Stop this stupity, if you want peace, justice and a world where every child can grow with dignity, stop the evil inside your heart. A God who punishes, a devil who deceives, people who sold their soul to something ureal...a lot of rubbish.
One priest told my mother that God does not send anybody to hell, God loves all people, forgives every error...that priest was removed from our church. And that idea stuck to me.
If there a God, he/she has to be tolerant enough to understand us all, we are creation of that Being. Devil is just a figure to design evil, as God is another to design the nature.
I believe in that God I mentioned, but think that most religious, satanism itself, intoxicated and divided innocent people. Metal uses symbols and are symbols that shock mediocre people. Stop ocultism and all those idiocy, I have studied that, and found a lot of old supertision. Be aware, we have to be aware that only man and woman can be God here to change the world. WAR, HUNGER, CONTAMINATION ARE FAR MORE IMPORTANT that the ignorant who rants about Priest.
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 2:36:22 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:07:24 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:26:31 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:56:36 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:05:44 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:19:47 PM Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:25:38 PM
[thekissofjudas] Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:24:55 PM
Animals do not know what is evil, something human. A concept. An animal can discuss like we are doing about something abstract. That is all.They cannot analyze and discuss. They react.
Take your pet to the vet. The pet see the vet as someone who can hurt it ( evil) and try to avoid him. But the vet want to help it.
Evil is a concept. Concept is a fruit of a brain, an human brain. That is all
Both New and Old Testaments can and will be turned into whatever it is someone wants to turn them into, so yes, it's a very circular discussion, this Good/Evil discussion. It's also very easy to have such conversations degenerate rather quickly, thekissofjudas ;-)
The arrow of time points one way only and entropy goes along with it.
But I have to say that animals understand Evil very well. Better than humans, in fact. It's true that dogs and other animals can sense a threat from specific people who, to us, don't seem to be doing anything wrong.
(Quoting Message by thekissofjudas from Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:04:07 PM)
thekissofjudas wrote:
We create culture and its meaning, not only objects. We cannot live without objects, like animals. They are part of our enviroment. How much you attach to the object and their symbolic meaning, power, money, etc is the problem.
Evil is what divide, destroy, pervert. Animal dont have a brain to understand that.
They cannot evaluate relations like us, they are not mother and father, cousin, boss and the like.
Evil make us see we have to anything to survive and enjoy, without feeling nothing for the rest. Evil is selfishness to the ultimate consequences. Stupids are those who think there is someone interested on buying soul, lol.
Well, meanings are dead with who have written? No. The new testament is not so fresh, the texts are related to a civilzition that is dead, too.
Genesis told the world of other times, but told the world of man's psychis. Knwoledgement equals death, end of innocent, lack of protection from the leader of the tribe.
It is enough for me. Devil and its troupe are just a bunch of nightmare for ignorants.
Good and evil too much to discuss in metal band fourm.
I love Judas Priest.
They are great musicians, relevant musicians.
Philosophy is other thing. (Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:48:20 PM)
. wrote:
What is Evil to you?
What harms you and hurts you.
What is Good to you?
What protects and loves you.
Humans react just the same as animals. We just communicate differently. Our upbringing and faith in making all of these objects we are surrounded by makes us foolishly think we're better.
As we depend on objects for our very own survival when animals just rely on their physical and social skills, it makes me think we actually are devolving instead of evolving.
I don't think that in reading the Genesis you will uncover anything. The Bible is but a mere picking of writings, some like the Genesis, created centuries or a couple of millenia before. They were relevant in their time, for their very limited and specific audience. The Old Testament was to be read in an environment such as a synagogue and by people who could understand what was really being meant, and mainly, a male audience (I don't think women were allowed to learn how to read and write).
Genesis can be analized to death and you can reach any conclusion you want because the real meanings have died along with the people who wrote it. The New Testament is far more relevant, IMO.
(Quoting Message by thekissofjudas from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:25:27 PM)
thekissofjudas wrote:
i think that the point is that you mentioned Discovery channerl and other USA channel that manipulate the scientific knowledgement and blurred the reality:
feelings like anger, fear, etc are no thought neither reason. They react, and is their right, they need to survive. We have a brain that has evolutioned, thanks to a God/ Nature maybe, but we are animals, with intelligence and intellegence discovers the evil. That is the nature of the sin, read the Genesis. It is quite simple to understand, we know evil now. (Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:17:08 PM)
. wrote:
I agree with you, the occultism doesn't really interest me for the simple fact that it's just a bunch of excuses for whatever (birds of a feather)...but since it captivates the imagination of people and tends to play with their beliefs and ingrained prejudices, I guess it has some glamor to it....therefore so many metal bands use these outdated bronze age symbolisms on their covers.
Animals have feelings. They feel jealous, they trick you, they are happy and sad. It's that we, as humans, are losing our empathy with the natural world. Unless you handle animals on a daily basis, like on a farm, you really would think that they just act and have none of those traits we consider human.
thekissofjudas wrote:
Nature may be considered good for itself, for being the ultimate source of live, then man and woman see GOOD... Moral is attained to man. Nature is life and death, nature is considered the ruler and source of all. Evil is only human,evil is something born from withit the human soul, betrayal, greed, envy...animals have those feeling? Absurd... where is the evil in Nature? Only man tagged animal behave as good and evil and it is totally absurd. Animal dont understand, think and choose, they only act.. I know about the svastika and the fork. I know many things of the ocultism, that is the reason I am not interested in it any more ;) just be human
(Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:00:12 PM)
. wrote:
And what if nature is evil too?
You say God is Nature and immediately state it's inherently Good, and that the Devil is Evil. But there is plenty of "evil" in nature.
If you ever watched Discovery or National Geographic, you can see there is plenty of horror in nature and if Humans are to do some of the same things that animals do then Humans are "doing the Devil's work": raping their underlings and their young, killing them, killing others, and using their bodily fluids to mark territory. Animals also kill for the thrill, not just to eat. Animals, such as rats and rabbits, are always sexually aroused and will multiply fast and they don't care if they are humping their own kin. Wasps can implant eggs on worms and when they hatch they eat their host alive.
Yet, rabbits are the Eastern European (pagan) symbol for Easter.
If anyone pays attention to symbols, what is the pitchfork supposed to mean anyway? Or the swastika? EVIL?
Yet, both are ultimate symbols of GOOD in Asian cultures. Shiva holds a pitchfork.
There is more to talking about religion than what the tv indoctrinates you with, even if I used television channels as an example.
thekissofjudas wrote:
Well, people, humanity lost many energies and lives fighting during thousands of years for religious and political causes, that are the same. Stop this stupity, if you want peace, justice and a world where every child can grow with dignity, stop the evil inside your heart. A God who punishes, a devil who deceives, people who sold their soul to something ureal...a lot of rubbish.
One priest told my mother that God does not send anybody to hell, God loves all people, forgives every error...that priest was removed from our church. And that idea stuck to me.
If there a God, he/she has to be tolerant enough to understand us all, we are creation of that Being. Devil is just a figure to design evil, as God is another to design the nature.
I believe in that God I mentioned, but think that most religious, satanism itself, intoxicated and divided innocent people. Metal uses symbols and are symbols that shock mediocre people. Stop ocultism and all those idiocy, I have studied that, and found a lot of old supertision. Be aware, we have to be aware that only man and woman can be God here to change the world. WAR, HUNGER, CONTAMINATION ARE FAR MORE IMPORTANT that the ignorant who rants about Priest.
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 2:36:22 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:07:24 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:26:31 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:56:36 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:05:44 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:19:47 PM
[.] Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:16:37 PM
Both New and Old Testaments can and will be turned into whatever it is someone wants to turn them into, so yes, it's a very circular discussion, this Good/Evil discussion. It's also very easy to have such conversations degenerate rather quickly, thekissofjudas ;-)
The arrow of time points one way only and entropy goes along with it.
But I have to say that animals understand Evil very well. Better than humans, in fact. It's true that dogs and other animals can sense a threat from specific people who, to us, don't seem to be doing anything wrong.
And yes, Judas Priest are very good musicians. That's why I like them so much. I feel spiritually uplifted when I hear their music, but without the religious connotation. I get high on their guitars and that voice! That YT vid with the Painkiller played backwards just made think what great musicians they are when their stuff played backwards sounds sooooooooooooooo awesome!
We create culture and its meaning, not only objects. We cannot live without objects, like animals. They are part of our enviroment. How much you attach to the object and their symbolic meaning, power, money, etc is the problem.
Evil is what divide, destroy, pervert. Animal dont have a brain to understand that.
They cannot evaluate relations like us, they are not mother and father, cousin, boss and the like.
Evil make us see we have to anything to survive and enjoy, without feeling nothing for the rest. Evil is selfishness to the ultimate consequences. Stupids are those who think there is someone interested on buying soul, lol.
Well, meanings are dead with who have written? No. The new testament is not so fresh, the texts are related to a civilzition that is dead, too.
Genesis told the world of other times, but told the world of man's psychis. Knwoledgement equals death, end of innocent, lack of protection from the leader of the tribe.
It is enough for me. Devil and its troupe are just a bunch of nightmare for ignorants.
Good and evil too much to discuss in metal band fourm.
I love Judas Priest.
They are great musicians, relevant musicians.
Philosophy is other thing. (Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:48:20 PM)
. wrote:
What is Evil to you?
What harms you and hurts you.
What is Good to you?
What protects and loves you.
Humans react just the same as animals. We just communicate differently. Our upbringing and faith in making all of these objects we are surrounded by makes us foolishly think we're better.
As we depend on objects for our very own survival when animals just rely on their physical and social skills, it makes me think we actually are devolving instead of evolving.
I don't think that in reading the Genesis you will uncover anything. The Bible is but a mere picking of writings, some like the Genesis, created centuries or a couple of millenia before. They were relevant in their time, for their very limited and specific audience. The Old Testament was to be read in an environment such as a synagogue and by people who could understand what was really being meant, and mainly, a male audience (I don't think women were allowed to learn how to read and write).
Genesis can be analized to death and you can reach any conclusion you want because the real meanings have died along with the people who wrote it. The New Testament is far more relevant, IMO.
(Quoting Message by thekissofjudas from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:25:27 PM)
thekissofjudas wrote:
i think that the point is that you mentioned Discovery channerl and other USA channel that manipulate the scientific knowledgement and blurred the reality:
feelings like anger, fear, etc are no thought neither reason. They react, and is their right, they need to survive. We have a brain that has evolutioned, thanks to a God/ Nature maybe, but we are animals, with intelligence and intellegence discovers the evil. That is the nature of the sin, read the Genesis. It is quite simple to understand, we know evil now. (Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:17:08 PM)
. wrote:
I agree with you, the occultism doesn't really interest me for the simple fact that it's just a bunch of excuses for whatever (birds of a feather)...but since it captivates the imagination of people and tends to play with their beliefs and ingrained prejudices, I guess it has some glamor to it....therefore so many metal bands use these outdated bronze age symbolisms on their covers.
Animals have feelings. They feel jealous, they trick you, they are happy and sad. It's that we, as humans, are losing our empathy with the natural world. Unless you handle animals on a daily basis, like on a farm, you really would think that they just act and have none of those traits we consider human.
thekissofjudas wrote:
Nature may be considered good for itself, for being the ultimate source of live, then man and woman see GOOD... Moral is attained to man. Nature is life and death, nature is considered the ruler and source of all. Evil is only human,evil is something born from withit the human soul, betrayal, greed, envy...animals have those feeling? Absurd... where is the evil in Nature? Only man tagged animal behave as good and evil and it is totally absurd. Animal dont understand, think and choose, they only act.. I know about the svastika and the fork. I know many things of the ocultism, that is the reason I am not interested in it any more ;) just be human
(Quoting Message by . from Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:00:12 PM)
. wrote:
And what if nature is evil too?
You say God is Nature and immediately state it's inherently Good, and that the Devil is Evil. But there is plenty of "evil" in nature.
If you ever watched Discovery or National Geographic, you can see there is plenty of horror in nature and if Humans are to do some of the same things that animals do then Humans are "doing the Devil's work": raping their underlings and their young, killing them, killing others, and using their bodily fluids to mark territory. Animals also kill for the thrill, not just to eat. Animals, such as rats and rabbits, are always sexually aroused and will multiply fast and they don't care if they are humping their own kin. Wasps can implant eggs on worms and when they hatch they eat their host alive.
Yet, rabbits are the Eastern European (pagan) symbol for Easter.
If anyone pays attention to symbols, what is the pitchfork supposed to mean anyway? Or the swastika? EVIL?
Yet, both are ultimate symbols of GOOD in Asian cultures. Shiva holds a pitchfork.
There is more to talking about religion than what the tv indoctrinates you with, even if I used television channels as an example.
thekissofjudas wrote:
Well, people, humanity lost many energies and lives fighting during thousands of years for religious and political causes, that are the same. Stop this stupity, if you want peace, justice and a world where every child can grow with dignity, stop the evil inside your heart. A God who punishes, a devil who deceives, people who sold their soul to something ureal...a lot of rubbish.
One priest told my mother that God does not send anybody to hell, God loves all people, forgives every error...that priest was removed from our church. And that idea stuck to me.
If there a God, he/she has to be tolerant enough to understand us all, we are creation of that Being. Devil is just a figure to design evil, as God is another to design the nature.
I believe in that God I mentioned, but think that most religious, satanism itself, intoxicated and divided innocent people. Metal uses symbols and are symbols that shock mediocre people. Stop ocultism and all those idiocy, I have studied that, and found a lot of old supertision. Be aware, we have to be aware that only man and woman can be God here to change the world. WAR, HUNGER, CONTAMINATION ARE FAR MORE IMPORTANT that the ignorant who rants about Priest.
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 2:36:22 PM
Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:07:24 PM
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Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:19:47 PM Edited at: Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:25:38 PM
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Spirituality, there you go! 
