| [DemonCat] Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:04:57 PM | |
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I've got things to do around the home. So I'm departing as well. Take care Strat. It was good chatting with you, and DF again.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:52:54 AM)| |  | stratlover wrote: | | COME ON!!! You still use that excuse over there? Youre not so advanced as I thoguht...
But in any case, it beats the hell out of the imgainary WMDs...
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | That would be too fair Strat. The government must twist things in such a way as to get what it wants.
So you aren't considering Obama a risk to peace? He's already set up one of the oldest excuses in the book...
Obama's letter of opology to the World for WW3 will read something like this...
Dear sir, or madam's,
I had the peace negotiations last night I swear, but my daughters new puppy ate it!
Sincerely opologetic,
Obama
| | | stratlover wrote: | | That is true, but as I said, I dont see it as a matter of knowing, rather as a matter of being entitled to something. I mean, lets face it, most people dont really take a great interest in politics. But most people are in one way or the other supporting the state apparatus. Now, if they have to, then I think its only right that they get to choose who leads it. Those things actualy are mutualy inclusive for the most part. I mean, its not like you have to understand politics very well to know which side represents what at a certain time.
Actualy George bush was elected because of your weird electing system. And thats something that I wanted to ask to. What all this stuff with electoral votes? Why not just count all the voters votes and determine the winner?
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I understand, DC. No worries.
Strat, as usual you make some very salient points. My problem with what you say is this;
Rights and duties are fine. Just because one comes of age does NOT mean one is capable of making decisions as an adult. Just because we "treat" eighteen year olds as adults and they can work and pay taxes and fight in a war does NOT mean they understand politics. So often, people use that silly argument, "Well, if you can fight a war, you should be able to drink, vote, own a gun..whatever..." These things are NOT mutually inclusive!! That is ridiculous. Just because I wear a swimsuit does NOT mean I can swim!!! The "right" to vote is fine. It is part of our Constitution and I accept that but that does NOT mean I AGREE with it!
George Bush was elected because he was the BETTER man. (OH boy..I can hear the haters typing on their keyboards now!!! HA!!) That does not mean it was the RIGHT choice. The "changes" in our voters to which you refer do not include intelligence. Bush was unpopular, I agree. He made mistakes, I agree. I still back him. I will back the new man WHEN he takes office.
Influencing politics would best be served by actually being a politician, as far as I can see. But, as voters, we are very limited in what we can do. And because the majority of our public ARE morons, we get what we get. They do NOT "think for themselves". They believe what "Oprah" tells them! If we were to require EVERY voter to REALLY KNOW what he/she is doing , rather than just being "of age", the influence would be greater and the results better. That , my friend, is MY "humble opinion".
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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| [DemonCat] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:58:07 AM | |
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Take care DF.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:56:16 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | They most certainly are NOT imaginary!!! They are in my neighbor's garage........HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ah well, I must depart for a while! Thank you , as usual strat, for the stimulating conversation! It is ALWAYS a pleasure, I can assure you. And DC, GREAT to see you again my friend. Please come by more often!!!
Bye guys!!!!!!!
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:52:54 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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COME ON!!! You still use that excuse over there? Youre not so advanced as I thoguht...
But in any case, it beats the hell out of the imgainary WMDs...
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DemonCat wrote: |
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That would be too fair Strat. The government must twist things in such a way as to get what it wants.
So you aren't considering Obama a risk to peace? He's already set up one of the oldest excuses in the book...
Obama's letter of opology to the World for WW3 will read something like this...
Dear sir, or madam's,
I had the peace negotiations last night I swear, but my daughters new puppy ate it!
Sincerely opologetic,
Obama
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stratlover wrote: |
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That is true, but as I said, I dont see it as a matter of knowing, rather as a matter of being entitled to something. I mean, lets face it, most people dont really take a great interest in politics. But most people are in one way or the other supporting the state apparatus. Now, if they have to, then I think its only right that they get to choose who leads it. Those things actualy are mutualy inclusive for the most part. I mean, its not like you have to understand politics very well to know which side represents what at a certain time.
Actualy George bush was elected because of your weird electing system. And thats something that I wanted to ask to. What all this stuff with electoral votes? Why not just count all the voters votes and determine the winner?
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I understand, DC. No worries.
Strat, as usual you make some very salient points. My problem with what you say is this;
Rights and duties are fine. Just because one comes of age does NOT mean one is capable of making decisions as an adult. Just because we "treat" eighteen year olds as adults and they can work and pay taxes and fight in a war does NOT mean they understand politics. So often, people use that silly argument, "Well, if you can fight a war, you should be able to drink, vote, own a gun..whatever..." These things are NOT mutually inclusive!! That is ridiculous. Just because I wear a swimsuit does NOT mean I can swim!!! The "right" to vote is fine. It is part of our Constitution and I accept that but that does NOT mean I AGREE with it!
George Bush was elected because he was the BETTER man. (OH boy..I can hear the haters typing on their keyboards now!!! HA!!) That does not mean it was the RIGHT choice. The "changes" in our voters to which you refer do not include intelligence. Bush was unpopular, I agree. He made mistakes, I agree. I still back him. I will back the new man WHEN he takes office.
Influencing politics would best be served by actually being a politician, as far as I can see. But, as voters, we are very limited in what we can do. And because the majority of our public ARE morons, we get what we get. They do NOT "think for themselves". They believe what "Oprah" tells them! If we were to require EVERY voter to REALLY KNOW what he/she is doing , rather than just being "of age", the influence would be greater and the results better. That , my friend, is MY "humble opinion".
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stratlover wrote: |
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Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:57:29 AM |
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| [DemonCat] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:57:34 AM | |
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Bush needed some excuse to wage 2 wars, in the hopes of gaining more oil for the U.S citizens, with our gas guzzling cars.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:52:54 AM)| | | stratlover wrote: | | COME ON!!! You still use that excuse over there? Youre not so advanced as I thoguht...
But in any case, it beats the hell out of the imgainary WMDs...
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | That would be too fair Strat. The government must twist things in such a way as to get what it wants.
So you aren't considering Obama a risk to peace? He's already set up one of the oldest excuses in the book...
Obama's letter of opology to the World for WW3 will read something like this...
Dear sir, or madam's,
I had the peace negotiations last night I swear, but my daughters new puppy ate it!
Sincerely opologetic,
Obama
| | | stratlover wrote: | | That is true, but as I said, I dont see it as a matter of knowing, rather as a matter of being entitled to something. I mean, lets face it, most people dont really take a great interest in politics. But most people are in one way or the other supporting the state apparatus. Now, if they have to, then I think its only right that they get to choose who leads it. Those things actualy are mutualy inclusive for the most part. I mean, its not like you have to understand politics very well to know which side represents what at a certain time.
Actualy George bush was elected because of your weird electing system. And thats something that I wanted to ask to. What all this stuff with electoral votes? Why not just count all the voters votes and determine the winner?
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I understand, DC. No worries.
Strat, as usual you make some very salient points. My problem with what you say is this;
Rights and duties are fine. Just because one comes of age does NOT mean one is capable of making decisions as an adult. Just because we "treat" eighteen year olds as adults and they can work and pay taxes and fight in a war does NOT mean they understand politics. So often, people use that silly argument, "Well, if you can fight a war, you should be able to drink, vote, own a gun..whatever..." These things are NOT mutually inclusive!! That is ridiculous. Just because I wear a swimsuit does NOT mean I can swim!!! The "right" to vote is fine. It is part of our Constitution and I accept that but that does NOT mean I AGREE with it!
George Bush was elected because he was the BETTER man. (OH boy..I can hear the haters typing on their keyboards now!!! HA!!) That does not mean it was the RIGHT choice. The "changes" in our voters to which you refer do not include intelligence. Bush was unpopular, I agree. He made mistakes, I agree. I still back him. I will back the new man WHEN he takes office.
Influencing politics would best be served by actually being a politician, as far as I can see. But, as voters, we are very limited in what we can do. And because the majority of our public ARE morons, we get what we get. They do NOT "think for themselves". They believe what "Oprah" tells them! If we were to require EVERY voter to REALLY KNOW what he/she is doing , rather than just being "of age", the influence would be greater and the results better. That , my friend, is MY "humble opinion".
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:56:16 AM | |
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They most certainly are NOT imaginary!!! They are in my neighbor's garage........HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ah well, I must depart for a while! Thank you , as usual strat, for the stimulating conversation! It is ALWAYS a pleasure, I can assure you. And DC, GREAT to see you again my friend. Please come by more often!!!
Bye guys!!!!!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:52:54 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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COME ON!!! You still use that excuse over there? Youre not so advanced as I thoguht...
But in any case, it beats the hell out of the imgainary WMDs...
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DemonCat wrote: |
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That would be too fair Strat. The government must twist things in such a way as to get what it wants.
So you aren't considering Obama a risk to peace? He's already set up one of the oldest excuses in the book...
Obama's letter of opology to the World for WW3 will read something like this...
Dear sir, or madam's,
I had the peace negotiations last night I swear, but my daughters new puppy ate it!
Sincerely opologetic,
Obama
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stratlover wrote: |
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That is true, but as I said, I dont see it as a matter of knowing, rather as a matter of being entitled to something. I mean, lets face it, most people dont really take a great interest in politics. But most people are in one way or the other supporting the state apparatus. Now, if they have to, then I think its only right that they get to choose who leads it. Those things actualy are mutualy inclusive for the most part. I mean, its not like you have to understand politics very well to know which side represents what at a certain time.
Actualy George bush was elected because of your weird electing system. And thats something that I wanted to ask to. What all this stuff with electoral votes? Why not just count all the voters votes and determine the winner?
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I understand, DC. No worries.
Strat, as usual you make some very salient points. My problem with what you say is this;
Rights and duties are fine. Just because one comes of age does NOT mean one is capable of making decisions as an adult. Just because we "treat" eighteen year olds as adults and they can work and pay taxes and fight in a war does NOT mean they understand politics. So often, people use that silly argument, "Well, if you can fight a war, you should be able to drink, vote, own a gun..whatever..." These things are NOT mutually inclusive!! That is ridiculous. Just because I wear a swimsuit does NOT mean I can swim!!! The "right" to vote is fine. It is part of our Constitution and I accept that but that does NOT mean I AGREE with it!
George Bush was elected because he was the BETTER man. (OH boy..I can hear the haters typing on their keyboards now!!! HA!!) That does not mean it was the RIGHT choice. The "changes" in our voters to which you refer do not include intelligence. Bush was unpopular, I agree. He made mistakes, I agree. I still back him. I will back the new man WHEN he takes office.
Influencing politics would best be served by actually being a politician, as far as I can see. But, as voters, we are very limited in what we can do. And because the majority of our public ARE morons, we get what we get. They do NOT "think for themselves". They believe what "Oprah" tells them! If we were to require EVERY voter to REALLY KNOW what he/she is doing , rather than just being "of age", the influence would be greater and the results better. That , my friend, is MY "humble opinion".
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stratlover wrote: |
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Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:57:29 AM |
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| [DemonCat] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:54:03 AM | |
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It's ok DF. I could have used the "spell-checker" button on my toolbar, but I'm lazy, and I have you. LOL [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:52:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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BWWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!! Oh MAN, DC!!! Yeah!!!..., and he will spell apology just like that!!! HAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!! I am so sorry, my friend! I simply could not resist! Please forgive me!!!!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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That would be too fair Strat. The government must twist things in such a way as to get what it wants.
So you aren't considering Obama a risk to peace? He's already set up one of the oldest excuses in the book...
Obama's letter of opology to the World for WW3 will read something like this...
Dear sir, or madam's,
I had the peace negotiations last night I swear, but my daughters new puppy ate it!
Sincerely opologetic,
Obama
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stratlover wrote: |
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That is true, but as I said, I dont see it as a matter of knowing, rather as a matter of being entitled to something. I mean, lets face it, most people dont really take a great interest in politics. But most people are in one way or the other supporting the state apparatus. Now, if they have to, then I think its only right that they get to choose who leads it. Those things actualy are mutualy inclusive for the most part. I mean, its not like you have to understand politics very well to know which side represents what at a certain time.
Actualy George bush was elected because of your weird electing system. And thats something that I wanted to ask to. What all this stuff with electoral votes? Why not just count all the voters votes and determine the winner?
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I understand, DC. No worries.
Strat, as usual you make some very salient points. My problem with what you say is this;
Rights and duties are fine. Just because one comes of age does NOT mean one is capable of making decisions as an adult. Just because we "treat" eighteen year olds as adults and they can work and pay taxes and fight in a war does NOT mean they understand politics. So often, people use that silly argument, "Well, if you can fight a war, you should be able to drink, vote, own a gun..whatever..." These things are NOT mutually inclusive!! That is ridiculous. Just because I wear a swimsuit does NOT mean I can swim!!! The "right" to vote is fine. It is part of our Constitution and I accept that but that does NOT mean I AGREE with it!
George Bush was elected because he was the BETTER man. (OH boy..I can hear the haters typing on their keyboards now!!! HA!!) That does not mean it was the RIGHT choice. The "changes" in our voters to which you refer do not include intelligence. Bush was unpopular, I agree. He made mistakes, I agree. I still back him. I will back the new man WHEN he takes office.
Influencing politics would best be served by actually being a politician, as far as I can see. But, as voters, we are very limited in what we can do. And because the majority of our public ARE morons, we get what we get. They do NOT "think for themselves". They believe what "Oprah" tells them! If we were to require EVERY voter to REALLY KNOW what he/she is doing , rather than just being "of age", the influence would be greater and the results better. That , my friend, is MY "humble opinion".
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stratlover wrote: |
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Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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| [_strat_] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:52:54 AM | |
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COME ON!!! You still use that excuse over there? Youre not so advanced as I thoguht...
But in any case, it beats the hell out of the imgainary WMDs...
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by DemonCat from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:50:23 AM)| | | DemonCat wrote: | | That would be too fair Strat. The government must twist things in such a way as to get what it wants.
So you aren't considering Obama a risk to peace? He's already set up one of the oldest excuses in the book...
Obama's letter of opology to the World for WW3 will read something like this...
Dear sir, or madam's,
I had the peace negotiations last night I swear, but my daughters new puppy ate it!
Sincerely opologetic,
Obama
| | | stratlover wrote: | | That is true, but as I said, I dont see it as a matter of knowing, rather as a matter of being entitled to something. I mean, lets face it, most people dont really take a great interest in politics. But most people are in one way or the other supporting the state apparatus. Now, if they have to, then I think its only right that they get to choose who leads it. Those things actualy are mutualy inclusive for the most part. I mean, its not like you have to understand politics very well to know which side represents what at a certain time.
Actualy George bush was elected because of your weird electing system. And thats something that I wanted to ask to. What all this stuff with electoral votes? Why not just count all the voters votes and determine the winner?
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I understand, DC. No worries.
Strat, as usual you make some very salient points. My problem with what you say is this;
Rights and duties are fine. Just because one comes of age does NOT mean one is capable of making decisions as an adult. Just because we "treat" eighteen year olds as adults and they can work and pay taxes and fight in a war does NOT mean they understand politics. So often, people use that silly argument, "Well, if you can fight a war, you should be able to drink, vote, own a gun..whatever..." These things are NOT mutually inclusive!! That is ridiculous. Just because I wear a swimsuit does NOT mean I can swim!!! The "right" to vote is fine. It is part of our Constitution and I accept that but that does NOT mean I AGREE with it!
George Bush was elected because he was the BETTER man. (OH boy..I can hear the haters typing on their keyboards now!!! HA!!) That does not mean it was the RIGHT choice. The "changes" in our voters to which you refer do not include intelligence. Bush was unpopular, I agree. He made mistakes, I agree. I still back him. I will back the new man WHEN he takes office.
Influencing politics would best be served by actually being a politician, as far as I can see. But, as voters, we are very limited in what we can do. And because the majority of our public ARE morons, we get what we get. They do NOT "think for themselves". They believe what "Oprah" tells them! If we were to require EVERY voter to REALLY KNOW what he/she is doing , rather than just being "of age", the influence would be greater and the results better. That , my friend, is MY "humble opinion".
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:52:38 AM | |
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BWWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!! Oh MAN, DC!!! Yeah!!!..., and he will spell apology just like that!!! HAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!! I am so sorry, my friend! I simply could not resist! Please forgive me!!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by DemonCat from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:50:23 AM)| | | DemonCat wrote: | | That would be too fair Strat. The government must twist things in such a way as to get what it wants.
So you aren't considering Obama a risk to peace? He's already set up one of the oldest excuses in the book...
Obama's letter of opology to the World for WW3 will read something like this...
Dear sir, or madam's,
I had the peace negotiations last night I swear, but my daughters new puppy ate it!
Sincerely opologetic,
Obama
| | | stratlover wrote: | | That is true, but as I said, I dont see it as a matter of knowing, rather as a matter of being entitled to something. I mean, lets face it, most people dont really take a great interest in politics. But most people are in one way or the other supporting the state apparatus. Now, if they have to, then I think its only right that they get to choose who leads it. Those things actualy are mutualy inclusive for the most part. I mean, its not like you have to understand politics very well to know which side represents what at a certain time.
Actualy George bush was elected because of your weird electing system. And thats something that I wanted to ask to. What all this stuff with electoral votes? Why not just count all the voters votes and determine the winner?
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I understand, DC. No worries.
Strat, as usual you make some very salient points. My problem with what you say is this;
Rights and duties are fine. Just because one comes of age does NOT mean one is capable of making decisions as an adult. Just because we "treat" eighteen year olds as adults and they can work and pay taxes and fight in a war does NOT mean they understand politics. So often, people use that silly argument, "Well, if you can fight a war, you should be able to drink, vote, own a gun..whatever..." These things are NOT mutually inclusive!! That is ridiculous. Just because I wear a swimsuit does NOT mean I can swim!!! The "right" to vote is fine. It is part of our Constitution and I accept that but that does NOT mean I AGREE with it!
George Bush was elected because he was the BETTER man. (OH boy..I can hear the haters typing on their keyboards now!!! HA!!) That does not mean it was the RIGHT choice. The "changes" in our voters to which you refer do not include intelligence. Bush was unpopular, I agree. He made mistakes, I agree. I still back him. I will back the new man WHEN he takes office.
Influencing politics would best be served by actually being a politician, as far as I can see. But, as voters, we are very limited in what we can do. And because the majority of our public ARE morons, we get what we get. They do NOT "think for themselves". They believe what "Oprah" tells them! If we were to require EVERY voter to REALLY KNOW what he/she is doing , rather than just being "of age", the influence would be greater and the results better. That , my friend, is MY "humble opinion".
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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| [_strat_] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:51:00 AM | |
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I see. But that means that a voters vote from a less populated state is actualy worth more than a vote from a highly populated one. Wouldnt the "one voter = one vote" be more fair?
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:47:54 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Well, at the time our "Founding Father's" developed this system, it was meant to keep the states with a higher population from getting an unfair advantage, since the majority of the population lived in certain areas. The states were assigned a certain number of "Electoral Votes" instead. This was meant to assist the less populated areas and give them an "equal voice", as it were. That is a rather simplified version of the answer but I am no scholar.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:40:40 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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That is true, but as I said, I dont see it as a matter of knowing, rather as a matter of being entitled to something. I mean, lets face it, most people dont really take a great interest in politics. But most people are in one way or the other supporting the state apparatus. Now, if they have to, then I think its only right that they get to choose who leads it. Those things actualy are mutualy inclusive for the most part. I mean, its not like you have to understand politics very well to know which side represents what at a certain time.
Actualy George bush was elected because of your weird electing system. And thats something that I wanted to ask to. What all this stuff with electoral votes? Why not just count all the voters votes and determine the winner?
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I understand, DC. No worries.
Strat, as usual you make some very salient points. My problem with what you say is this;
Rights and duties are fine. Just because one comes of age does NOT mean one is capable of making decisions as an adult. Just because we "treat" eighteen year olds as adults and they can work and pay taxes and fight in a war does NOT mean they understand politics. So often, people use that silly argument, "Well, if you can fight a war, you should be able to drink, vote, own a gun..whatever..." These things are NOT mutually inclusive!! That is ridiculous. Just because I wear a swimsuit does NOT mean I can swim!!! The "right" to vote is fine. It is part of our Constitution and I accept that but that does NOT mean I AGREE with it!
George Bush was elected because he was the BETTER man. (OH boy..I can hear the haters typing on their keyboards now!!! HA!!) That does not mean it was the RIGHT choice. The "changes" in our voters to which you refer do not include intelligence. Bush was unpopular, I agree. He made mistakes, I agree. I still back him. I will back the new man WHEN he takes office.
Influencing politics would best be served by actually being a politician, as far as I can see. But, as voters, we are very limited in what we can do. And because the majority of our public ARE morons, we get what we get. They do NOT "think for themselves". They believe what "Oprah" tells them! If we were to require EVERY voter to REALLY KNOW what he/she is doing , rather than just being "of age", the influence would be greater and the results better. That , my friend, is MY "humble opinion".
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stratlover wrote: |
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Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:49:55 AM |
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| [DemonCat] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:50:23 AM | |
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That would be too fair Strat. The government must twist things in such a way as to get what it wants.
So you aren't considering Obama a risk to peace? He's already set up one of the oldest excuses in the book...
Obama's letter of opology to the World for WW3 will read something like this...
Dear sir, or madam's,
I had the peace negotiations last night I swear, but my daughters new puppy ate it!
Sincerely opologetic,
Obama
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:40:40 AM)| | | stratlover wrote: | | That is true, but as I said, I dont see it as a matter of knowing, rather as a matter of being entitled to something. I mean, lets face it, most people dont really take a great interest in politics. But most people are in one way or the other supporting the state apparatus. Now, if they have to, then I think its only right that they get to choose who leads it. Those things actualy are mutualy inclusive for the most part. I mean, its not like you have to understand politics very well to know which side represents what at a certain time.
Actualy George bush was elected because of your weird electing system. And thats something that I wanted to ask to. What all this stuff with electoral votes? Why not just count all the voters votes and determine the winner?
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I understand, DC. No worries.
Strat, as usual you make some very salient points. My problem with what you say is this;
Rights and duties are fine. Just because one comes of age does NOT mean one is capable of making decisions as an adult. Just because we "treat" eighteen year olds as adults and they can work and pay taxes and fight in a war does NOT mean they understand politics. So often, people use that silly argument, "Well, if you can fight a war, you should be able to drink, vote, own a gun..whatever..." These things are NOT mutually inclusive!! That is ridiculous. Just because I wear a swimsuit does NOT mean I can swim!!! The "right" to vote is fine. It is part of our Constitution and I accept that but that does NOT mean I AGREE with it!
George Bush was elected because he was the BETTER man. (OH boy..I can hear the haters typing on their keyboards now!!! HA!!) That does not mean it was the RIGHT choice. The "changes" in our voters to which you refer do not include intelligence. Bush was unpopular, I agree. He made mistakes, I agree. I still back him. I will back the new man WHEN he takes office.
Influencing politics would best be served by actually being a politician, as far as I can see. But, as voters, we are very limited in what we can do. And because the majority of our public ARE morons, we get what we get. They do NOT "think for themselves". They believe what "Oprah" tells them! If we were to require EVERY voter to REALLY KNOW what he/she is doing , rather than just being "of age", the influence would be greater and the results better. That , my friend, is MY "humble opinion".
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:47:54 AM | |
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Well, at the time our "Founding Father's" developed this system, it was meant to keep the states with a higher population from getting an unfair advantage, since the majority of the population lived in certain areas. The states were assigned a certain number of "Electoral Votes" instead. This was meant to assist the less populated areas and give them an "equal voice", as it were. That is a rather simplified version of the answer but I am no scholar.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:40:40 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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That is true, but as I said, I dont see it as a matter of knowing, rather as a matter of being entitled to something. I mean, lets face it, most people dont really take a great interest in politics. But most people are in one way or the other supporting the state apparatus. Now, if they have to, then I think its only right that they get to choose who leads it. Those things actualy are mutualy inclusive for the most part. I mean, its not like you have to understand politics very well to know which side represents what at a certain time.
Actualy George bush was elected because of your weird electing system. And thats something that I wanted to ask to. What all this stuff with electoral votes? Why not just count all the voters votes and determine the winner?
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I understand, DC. No worries.
Strat, as usual you make some very salient points. My problem with what you say is this;
Rights and duties are fine. Just because one comes of age does NOT mean one is capable of making decisions as an adult. Just because we "treat" eighteen year olds as adults and they can work and pay taxes and fight in a war does NOT mean they understand politics. So often, people use that silly argument, "Well, if you can fight a war, you should be able to drink, vote, own a gun..whatever..." These things are NOT mutually inclusive!! That is ridiculous. Just because I wear a swimsuit does NOT mean I can swim!!! The "right" to vote is fine. It is part of our Constitution and I accept that but that does NOT mean I AGREE with it!
George Bush was elected because he was the BETTER man. (OH boy..I can hear the haters typing on their keyboards now!!! HA!!) That does not mean it was the RIGHT choice. The "changes" in our voters to which you refer do not include intelligence. Bush was unpopular, I agree. He made mistakes, I agree. I still back him. I will back the new man WHEN he takes office.
Influencing politics would best be served by actually being a politician, as far as I can see. But, as voters, we are very limited in what we can do. And because the majority of our public ARE morons, we get what we get. They do NOT "think for themselves". They believe what "Oprah" tells them! If we were to require EVERY voter to REALLY KNOW what he/she is doing , rather than just being "of age", the influence would be greater and the results better. That , my friend, is MY "humble opinion".
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stratlover wrote: |
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Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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| [_strat_] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:40:40 AM | |
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That is true, but as I said, I dont see it as a matter of knowing, rather as a matter of being entitled to something. I mean, lets face it, most people dont really take a great interest in politics. But most people are in one way or the other supporting the state apparatus. Now, if they have to, then I think its only right that they get to choose who leads it. Those things actualy are mutualy inclusive for the most part. I mean, its not like you have to understand politics very well to know which side represents what at a certain time.
Actualy George bush was elected because of your weird electing system. And thats something that I wanted to ask to. What all this stuff with electoral votes? Why not just count all the voters votes and determine the winner?
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:22:56 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I understand, DC. No worries.
Strat, as usual you make some very salient points. My problem with what you say is this;
Rights and duties are fine. Just because one comes of age does NOT mean one is capable of making decisions as an adult. Just because we "treat" eighteen year olds as adults and they can work and pay taxes and fight in a war does NOT mean they understand politics. So often, people use that silly argument, "Well, if you can fight a war, you should be able to drink, vote, own a gun..whatever..." These things are NOT mutually inclusive!! That is ridiculous. Just because I wear a swimsuit does NOT mean I can swim!!! The "right" to vote is fine. It is part of our Constitution and I accept that but that does NOT mean I AGREE with it!
George Bush was elected because he was the BETTER man. (OH boy..I can hear the haters typing on their keyboards now!!! HA!!) That does not mean it was the RIGHT choice. The "changes" in our voters to which you refer do not include intelligence. Bush was unpopular, I agree. He made mistakes, I agree. I still back him. I will back the new man WHEN he takes office.
Influencing politics would best be served by actually being a politician, as far as I can see. But, as voters, we are very limited in what we can do. And because the majority of our public ARE morons, we get what we get. They do NOT "think for themselves". They believe what "Oprah" tells them! If we were to require EVERY voter to REALLY KNOW what he/she is doing , rather than just being "of age", the influence would be greater and the results better. That , my friend, is MY "humble opinion".
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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| [DemonCat] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:33:42 AM | |
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LOL You're probably right.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:25:35 AM)| | | stratlover wrote: | | Lol, no I think that your next president should be allright... As much as a politician can ever be "allright". If it was Sarah Palin as the Vicepresident, I guess that Russian missiles would already be flying towards her belowed Alaska.
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | I'm sure it'll work out somehow. I wish you the best next year in getting into college. Sorry you didn't get in this year.
So what do you think...have we taken a closer step towards armageddon?
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, Im sorry to hear that. I hope you get through allright.
Well, Im fine. Graduated, failed to get into a college, so Im working for a year and trying again next year.
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | Nah, too much worry. I simply couldn't stop wondering how I'm going to pay my bills this month. How have you been?
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Aha, to much coffee? Well, its good to be back, and good to see you again as well.
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | I wasn't up early, but rather...I was awake late. 'Til 4 a.m. Good to see you again Strat!
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Wow! Youre up early!
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | "As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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| [DemonCat] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:32:46 AM | |
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I truelly understand what you've been saying in your posts DF, and agree with most of them. There would also be alot more people alive, if driving a vehicle wasn't determined by age as well. We could risk a revolution by changing the laws, but the risk would be too great for it to every actually happen.
My racial comment was actually spawned by every tv channel I tuned into was bringing up the racial significance of our president elect, and not neccesarily what he'll be doing for the American people, and worldly issues, and I was getting sick of hearing it.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:22:56 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I understand, DC. No worries.
Strat, as usual you make some very salient points. My problem with what you say is this;
Rights and duties are fine. Just because one comes of age does NOT mean one is capable of making decisions as an adult. Just because we "treat" eighteen year olds as adults and they can work and pay taxes and fight in a war does NOT mean they understand politics. So often, people use that silly argument, "Well, if you can fight a war, you should be able to drink, vote, own a gun..whatever..." These things are NOT mutually inclusive!! That is ridiculous. Just because I wear a swimsuit does NOT mean I can swim!!! The "right" to vote is fine. It is part of our Constitution and I accept that but that does NOT mean I AGREE with it!
George Bush was elected because he was the BETTER man. (OH boy..I can hear the haters typing on their keyboards now!!! HA!!) That does not mean it was the RIGHT choice. The "changes" in our voters to which you refer do not include intelligence. Bush was unpopular, I agree. He made mistakes, I agree. I still back him. I will back the new man WHEN he takes office.
Influencing politics would best be served by actually being a politician, as far as I can see. But, as voters, we are very limited in what we can do. And because the majority of our public ARE morons, we get what we get. They do NOT "think for themselves". They believe what "Oprah" tells them! If we were to require EVERY voter to REALLY KNOW what he/she is doing , rather than just being "of age", the influence would be greater and the results better. That , my friend, is MY "humble opinion".
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:29:04 AM | |
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BWWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:25:35 AM)| | | stratlover wrote: | | Lol, no I think that your next president should be allright... As much as a politician can ever be "allright". If it was Sarah Palin as the Vicepresident, I guess that Russian missiles would already be flying towards her belowed Alaska.
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | I'm sure it'll work out somehow. I wish you the best next year in getting into college. Sorry you didn't get in this year.
So what do you think...have we taken a closer step towards armageddon?
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, Im sorry to hear that. I hope you get through allright.
Well, Im fine. Graduated, failed to get into a college, so Im working for a year and trying again next year.
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | Nah, too much worry. I simply couldn't stop wondering how I'm going to pay my bills this month. How have you been?
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Aha, to much coffee? Well, its good to be back, and good to see you again as well.
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | I wasn't up early, but rather...I was awake late. 'Til 4 a.m. Good to see you again Strat!
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Wow! Youre up early!
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | "As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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| [_strat_] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:25:35 AM | |
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Lol, no I think that your next president should be allright... As much as a politician can ever be "allright". If it was Sarah Palin as the Vicepresident, I guess that Russian missiles would already be flying towards her belowed Alaska.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by DemonCat from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:14:56 AM)| | | DemonCat wrote: | | I'm sure it'll work out somehow. I wish you the best next year in getting into college. Sorry you didn't get in this year.
So what do you think...have we taken a closer step towards armageddon?
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, Im sorry to hear that. I hope you get through allright.
Well, Im fine. Graduated, failed to get into a college, so Im working for a year and trying again next year.
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | Nah, too much worry. I simply couldn't stop wondering how I'm going to pay my bills this month. How have you been?
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Aha, to much coffee? Well, its good to be back, and good to see you again as well.
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | I wasn't up early, but rather...I was awake late. 'Til 4 a.m. Good to see you again Strat!
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Wow! Youre up early!
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | "As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:22:56 AM | |
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I understand, DC. No worries.
Strat, as usual you make some very salient points. My problem with what you say is this;
Rights and duties are fine. Just because one comes of age does NOT mean one is capable of making decisions as an adult. Just because we "treat" eighteen year olds as adults and they can work and pay taxes and fight in a war does NOT mean they understand politics. So often, people use that silly argument, "Well, if you can fight a war, you should be able to drink, vote, own a gun..whatever..." These things are NOT mutually inclusive!! That is ridiculous. Just because I wear a swimsuit does NOT mean I can swim!!! The "right" to vote is fine. It is part of our Constitution and I accept that but that does NOT mean I AGREE with it!
George Bush was elected because he was the BETTER man. (OH boy..I can hear the haters typing on their keyboards now!!! HA!!) That does not mean it was the RIGHT choice. The "changes" in our voters to which you refer do not include intelligence. Bush was unpopular, I agree. He made mistakes, I agree. I still back him. I will back the new man WHEN he takes office.
Influencing politics would best be served by actually being a politician, as far as I can see. But, as voters, we are very limited in what we can do. And because the majority of our public ARE morons, we get what we get. They do NOT "think for themselves". They believe what "Oprah" tells them! If we were to require EVERY voter to REALLY KNOW what he/she is doing , rather than just being "of age", the influence would be greater and the results better. That , my friend, is MY "humble opinion".
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:04:00 AM)| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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| [DemonCat] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:14:56 AM | |
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I'm sure it'll work out somehow. I wish you the best next year in getting into college. Sorry you didn't get in this year.
So what do you think...have we taken a closer step towards armageddon?
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:12:13 AM)| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, Im sorry to hear that. I hope you get through allright.
Well, Im fine. Graduated, failed to get into a college, so Im working for a year and trying again next year.
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | Nah, too much worry. I simply couldn't stop wondering how I'm going to pay my bills this month. How have you been?
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Aha, to much coffee? Well, its good to be back, and good to see you again as well.
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | I wasn't up early, but rather...I was awake late. 'Til 4 a.m. Good to see you again Strat!
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Wow! Youre up early!
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | "As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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| [_strat_] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:12:13 AM | |
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Well, Im sorry to hear that. I hope you get through allright.
Well, Im fine. Graduated, failed to get into a college, so Im working for a year and trying again next year.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by DemonCat from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:08:18 AM)| | | DemonCat wrote: | | Nah, too much worry. I simply couldn't stop wondering how I'm going to pay my bills this month. How have you been?
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Aha, to much coffee? Well, its good to be back, and good to see you again as well.
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | I wasn't up early, but rather...I was awake late. 'Til 4 a.m. Good to see you again Strat!
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Wow! Youre up early!
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | "As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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| [DemonCat] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:08:18 AM | |
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Nah, too much worry. I simply couldn't stop wondering how I'm going to pay my bills this month. How have you been?
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:05:40 AM)| | | stratlover wrote: | | Aha, to much coffee? Well, its good to be back, and good to see you again as well.
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | I wasn't up early, but rather...I was awake late. 'Til 4 a.m. Good to see you again Strat!
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Wow! Youre up early!
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | "As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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| [_strat_] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:05:40 AM | |
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Aha, to much coffee? Well, its good to be back, and good to see you again as well.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by DemonCat from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:45:54 AM)| | | DemonCat wrote: | | I wasn't up early, but rather...I was awake late. 'Til 4 a.m. Good to see you again Strat!
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Wow! Youre up early!
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | "As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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| [_strat_] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:04:00 AM | |
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Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:39:58 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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| [DemonCat] Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:54:22 AM | |
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Hello DF! Hope you are feeling well. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. It's my fault for not seperating the racial post from the response to your comment on youngsters, and it hit me wrong that you called a few hundred-thousand voters "idiots"..
My Christian views really have nothing to do with the political views of any leaders. I've always believed that any Earthly government will ultimately fulfill the book of Revelations anyways, and that every step towards the day that God's Kingdom comes to Earth is a great day.
I simply voted for Obama, because I didn't want another Bush administration. It's time for a new direction. It's also good to finally take a huge step IMO in overcoming racial tensions.
To answer your latest question...I do read your posts. I simply chose one small part to respond to. [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:39:58 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:18:49 AM |
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| [DemonCat] Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:45:54 AM | |
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I wasn't up early, but rather...I was awake late. 'Til 4 a.m. Good to see you again Strat!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:49:01 AM)| | | stratlover wrote: | | Wow! Youre up early!
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | "As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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|
I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:39:58 AM | |
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Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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| [_strat_] Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM | |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:20:46 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | "As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
| |
|
I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:20:46 AM | |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by DemonCat from Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:33:52 AM)| | | DemonCat wrote: | | "As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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|
Deep Freeze wrote: |
| |
|
I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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| [_strat_] Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:49:01 AM | |
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Wow! Youre up early!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by DemonCat from Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:33:52 AM)| | | DemonCat wrote: | | "As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
| |
|
I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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| [DemonCat] Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:33:52 AM | |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
| |
|
I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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| [_strat_] Friday, November 07, 2008 9:43:44 AM | |
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Otherwise, then he or she might as well walk accorss the chamber floor and align him or herself with the opposite party.
Well, yeah, that would be the best thing to do, but try telling the politicians about it.
The problem with having a democracy with political parties is that it stereotypes people who have similar but not identical views (makes similar people look identical when it comes to political views). There are dissidents in every party, and practicly every political party in the world has its own subdivisions, as to which members are more right, left, pacifist, militant, proggressive, conservative, etc. Imo, only a party that is reasonably unanimous in the major issues can make any headroads. The answer would be just to have as many parties as possible to ensure as much plurality as possible, but that would lead to more bickering, as the power would have to be shared between more people.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by BLOOD SUCKER Esquire from Thursday, November 06, 2008 4:46:37 PM)| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | Here is my reasoning. You have a Republican that is more...Democratic than Right-Wing. And then you have a Democrat that is more Right Wing then leftist. Saying this.....how on earth can anyting be accomplished when you have such strong views as is the Red-stateb Blue-state logic....but yet you have elected individuals that neither represent a soft or hard line on either side. And similar members on this same side.....that are not quite as committed? I'm not sure if my point came accross in an understandable manner. But if you have too many points of view within a given party that are in conflict with each other, how can the party make any headroads? I'm not suggesting that the Majority or Minority whip stifles progress. Nor am I suggesting that independent votes cripple the party's stance and principle. However, what I am concluding is that within a given party, each individual must mainatain some form of allegiance with the party that he has alligned with and has achieved membership with. Otherwise, then he or she might as well walk accorss the chamber floor and align him or herself with the opposite party. I hope I got my point accross.
a. Hammerstein 
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 4:56:00 PM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Friday, November 07, 2008 7:50:14 AM | |
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HEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who you calling Rush Limbaugh?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!? HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by METAL MELTDOWN from Friday, November 07, 2008 7:44:20 AM)| | | METAL MELTDOWN wrote: | | This is why I have shut up in this thread. This is the Rush Limbaugh thread and all of those with a different opinion need to stay out...See ya
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | MM, you have spent entirely TOO MUCH time in your basement...or you just painted. In either case, you need a walk in the fresh air. OR some good drugs. HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have NOTHING to say.
BS, in general, people in the Congress and Senate do vote along party lines. There are the occasional exceptions but, by and large, it tends to work out that way. If I understand you correctly, you are basically asking "how does anything get done?" Well my friend, that is a BIG problem. Bickering and filibusters and whatnot cause a tremendous amount of trouble. Worse, there is so much 'pork' attached to otherwise good bills that they rarely get through in a timely fashion. Politicians have to answer to their constituency and so they tend to try to load up bills with pet projects. Such is the way of the "system".
I have yet to see any one particular politician vote in direct accordance with their party platform in EVERY case. Just does not ALWAYS happen.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | Here is my reasoning. You have a Republican that is more...Democratic than Right-Wing. And then you have a Democrat that is more Right Wing then leftist. Saying this.....how on earth can anyting be accomplished when you have such strong views as is the Red-stateb Blue-state logic....but yet you have elected individuals that neither represent a soft or hard line on either side. And similar members on this same side.....that are not quite as committed? I'm not sure if my point came accross in an understandable manner. But if you have too many points of view within a given party that are in conflict with each other, how can the party make any headroads? I'm not suggesting that the Majority or Minority whip stifles progress. Nor am I suggesting that independent votes cripple the party's stance and principle. However, what I am concluding is that within a given party, each individual must mainatain some form of allegiance with the party that he has alligned with and has achieved membership with. Otherwise, then he or she might as well walk accorss the chamber floor and align him or herself with the opposite party. I hope I got my point accross.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 4:56:00 PM |
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| [METAL MELTDOWN] Friday, November 07, 2008 7:44:20 AM | |
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This is why I have shut up in this thread. This is the Rush Limbaugh thread and all of those with a different opinion need to stay out...See ya
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:22:41 PM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | MM, you have spent entirely TOO MUCH time in your basement...or you just painted. In either case, you need a walk in the fresh air. OR some good drugs. HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have NOTHING to say.
BS, in general, people in the Congress and Senate do vote along party lines. There are the occasional exceptions but, by and large, it tends to work out that way. If I understand you correctly, you are basically asking "how does anything get done?" Well my friend, that is a BIG problem. Bickering and filibusters and whatnot cause a tremendous amount of trouble. Worse, there is so much 'pork' attached to otherwise good bills that they rarely get through in a timely fashion. Politicians have to answer to their constituency and so they tend to try to load up bills with pet projects. Such is the way of the "system".
I have yet to see any one particular politician vote in direct accordance with their party platform in EVERY case. Just does not ALWAYS happen.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | Here is my reasoning. You have a Republican that is more...Democratic than Right-Wing. And then you have a Democrat that is more Right Wing then leftist. Saying this.....how on earth can anyting be accomplished when you have such strong views as is the Red-stateb Blue-state logic....but yet you have elected individuals that neither represent a soft or hard line on either side. And similar members on this same side.....that are not quite as committed? I'm not sure if my point came accross in an understandable manner. But if you have too many points of view within a given party that are in conflict with each other, how can the party make any headroads? I'm not suggesting that the Majority or Minority whip stifles progress. Nor am I suggesting that independent votes cripple the party's stance and principle. However, what I am concluding is that within a given party, each individual must mainatain some form of allegiance with the party that he has alligned with and has achieved membership with. Otherwise, then he or she might as well walk accorss the chamber floor and align him or herself with the opposite party. I hope I got my point accross.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 4:56:00 PM |
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| [~ MG_Metalgoddess~] Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:00:12 PM | |
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I love that.. I laughed so hard when I read this stuff... ROFL... My sides hurt...
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:22:41 PM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | MM, you have spent entirely TOO MUCH time in your basement...or you just painted. In either case, you need a walk in the fresh air. OR some good drugs. HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have NOTHING to say.
BS, in general, people in the Congress and Senate do vote along party lines. There are the occasional exceptions but, by and large, it tends to work out that way. If I understand you correctly, you are basically asking "how does anything get done?" Well my friend, that is a BIG problem. Bickering and filibusters and whatnot cause a tremendous amount of trouble. Worse, there is so much 'pork' attached to otherwise good bills that they rarely get through in a timely fashion. Politicians have to answer to their constituency and so they tend to try to load up bills with pet projects. Such is the way of the "system".
I have yet to see any one particular politician vote in direct accordance with their party platform in EVERY case. Just does not ALWAYS happen.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | Here is my reasoning. You have a Republican that is more...Democratic than Right-Wing. And then you have a Democrat that is more Right Wing then leftist. Saying this.....how on earth can anyting be accomplished when you have such strong views as is the Red-stateb Blue-state logic....but yet you have elected individuals that neither represent a soft or hard line on either side. And similar members on this same side.....that are not quite as committed? I'm not sure if my point came accross in an understandable manner. But if you have too many points of view within a given party that are in conflict with each other, how can the party make any headroads? I'm not suggesting that the Majority or Minority whip stifles progress. Nor am I suggesting that independent votes cripple the party's stance and principle. However, what I am concluding is that within a given party, each individual must mainatain some form of allegiance with the party that he has alligned with and has achieved membership with. Otherwise, then he or she might as well walk accorss the chamber floor and align him or herself with the opposite party. I hope I got my point accross.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 4:56:00 PM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:22:41 PM | |
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MM, you have spent entirely TOO MUCH time in your basement...or you just painted. In either case, you need a walk in the fresh air. OR some good drugs. HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have NOTHING to say.
BS, in general, people in the Congress and Senate do vote along party lines. There are the occasional exceptions but, by and large, it tends to work out that way. If I understand you correctly, you are basically asking "how does anything get done?" Well my friend, that is a BIG problem. Bickering and filibusters and whatnot cause a tremendous amount of trouble. Worse, there is so much 'pork' attached to otherwise good bills that they rarely get through in a timely fashion. Politicians have to answer to their constituency and so they tend to try to load up bills with pet projects. Such is the way of the "system".
I have yet to see any one particular politician vote in direct accordance with their party platform in EVERY case. Just does not ALWAYS happen.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by BLOOD SUCKER Esquire from Thursday, November 06, 2008 4:46:37 PM)| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | Here is my reasoning. You have a Republican that is more...Democratic than Right-Wing. And then you have a Democrat that is more Right Wing then leftist. Saying this.....how on earth can anyting be accomplished when you have such strong views as is the Red-stateb Blue-state logic....but yet you have elected individuals that neither represent a soft or hard line on either side. And similar members on this same side.....that are not quite as committed? I'm not sure if my point came accross in an understandable manner. But if you have too many points of view within a given party that are in conflict with each other, how can the party make any headroads? I'm not suggesting that the Majority or Minority whip stifles progress. Nor am I suggesting that independent votes cripple the party's stance and principle. However, what I am concluding is that within a given party, each individual must mainatain some form of allegiance with the party that he has alligned with and has achieved membership with. Otherwise, then he or she might as well walk accorss the chamber floor and align him or herself with the opposite party. I hope I got my point accross.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 4:56:00 PM |
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| [BLOOD SUCKER Esquire] Thursday, November 06, 2008 4:46:37 PM | |
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Here is my reasoning. You have a Republican that is more...Democratic than Right-Wing. And then you have a Democrat that is more Right Wing then leftist. Saying this.....how on earth can anyting be accomplished when you have such strong views as is the Red-stateb Blue-state logic....but yet you have elected individuals that neither represent a soft or hard line on either side. And similar members on this same side.....that are not quite as committed? I'm not sure if my point came accross in an understandable manner. But if you have too many points of view within a given party that are in conflict with each other, how can the party make any headroads? I'm not suggesting that the Majority or Minority whip stifles progress. Nor am I suggesting that independent votes cripple the party's stance and principle. However, what I am concluding is that within a given party, each individual must mainatain some form of allegiance with the party that he has alligned with and has achieved membership with. Otherwise, then he or she might as well walk accorss the chamber floor and align him or herself with the opposite party. I hope I got my point accross.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 4:56:00 PM |
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| [METAL MELTDOWN] Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:13:22 PM | |
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YES....My insiders tell me that all of those are correct they ALL saw it coming!!!
I would like to say this and then make yet another departure from a thread that I am most certainly not welcomed in and one I really dont give a fuck about being in......
Something to think about....
Why did I vote for Obama....Hmmm, lets see......I never cared too much for either Mccain or Obama but I looked at it this way. I voted for Obama because he was black!!
How many women out there landed a job that was traditionally handed to men back when all you saw were men in CEO positions and they, women, excelled at it. Why??? Because they had something to prove to the men in the world, yet they were just as qualified and held the same credentials but because they were women werent given the oppty to do it...but when oppty presented itself they did excel and more and more women were offered those positions....
Obama has a lot to prove to everyone not only in this country but in the world. This is our nations 1st black president and I firmly believe that he will be on his toes and prove to everyone his ability to do the job because everybody is watching waiting for him to fuck up!!! give the man some time everyone before you condemn him. My feeling is that we will all be pleasantly surprised........
OK Freeze....I am outta here again.....
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:46:17 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | You TELL 'em, MM!!!! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wow!
so Bush "saw it coming",huh?? And I suppose Adams and Madison saw the British coming when they refused to fight Napoleon? And perhaps Lincoln saw the Civil War coming? And Clinton certainly saw 911 coming when he screwed up in Somolia??? You are KILLING me, dude!!!!!!! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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| [Head banger] Thursday, November 06, 2008 12:29:51 PM | |
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but first, define the center, before we go left and right. its a radicaly different place as you move about the globe/
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:04:15 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | BS, you are fairly close with your assumption. The term democratic conservative simply relates to a Democrat with conservative views (less government, less taxes, lower spending, less social programs, etc). That is a rather simplistic definition but fairly accurate.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | The terms....Conservative Democrat and Democratic Conservative. Please explain this. Is this right-of-center, or left-of-center governing? This was mentioned a few times on the BBC World yesterday in regards to Obama. Thank you.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:58:45 AM |
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| [_strat_] Thursday, November 06, 2008 12:04:55 PM | |
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Sorry, we only take cash.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:57:23 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | And so it shall be, my Lord. I shall wire the money forthwith. Please post your bank account and routing numbers.......
HHHAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Aha, so thats the way of it...
You are forgiven my son. But since you were insolent to correct me, I order you to pay a fine of 1000$. Me, your lord, comands it.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | As I most certainly do NOT want to be suspected as part of this 'conspiracy', I will accept your response as the absolute truth and ask your forgiveness for my insolence.
| | | stratlover wrote: | | I assure you, strating is quite correct, and if anyone tells you otherwise, they are obviously a part of the infamous anti-me conspiracy.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | You're right! It IS Somalia...Oh, and by the by, it is staRting.... BWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Love ya, strat!!!!
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, there you have it. Im strating to think that even the "lesser" of two evils is inaccurate.
Oh, and btw. its Somalia, not Somolia.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | BS, you are fairly close with your assumption. The term democratic conservative simply relates to a Democrat with conservative views (less government, less taxes, lower spending, less social programs, etc). That is a rather simplistic definition but fairly accurate.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | The terms....Conservative Democrat and Democratic Conservative. Please explain this. Is this right-of-center, or left-of-center governing? This was mentioned a few times on the BBC World yesterday in regards to Obama. Thank you.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:58:45 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:57:23 AM | |
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And so it shall be, my Lord. I shall wire the money forthwith. Please post your bank account and routing numbers.......
HHHAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:52:18 AM)| | | stratlover wrote: | | Aha, so thats the way of it...
You are forgiven my son. But since you were insolent to correct me, I order you to pay a fine of 1000$. Me, your lord, comands it.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | As I most certainly do NOT want to be suspected as part of this 'conspiracy', I will accept your response as the absolute truth and ask your forgiveness for my insolence.
| | | stratlover wrote: | | I assure you, strating is quite correct, and if anyone tells you otherwise, they are obviously a part of the infamous anti-me conspiracy.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | You're right! It IS Somalia...Oh, and by the by, it is staRting.... BWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Love ya, strat!!!!
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, there you have it. Im strating to think that even the "lesser" of two evils is inaccurate.
Oh, and btw. its Somalia, not Somolia.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | BS, you are fairly close with your assumption. The term democratic conservative simply relates to a Democrat with conservative views (less government, less taxes, lower spending, less social programs, etc). That is a rather simplistic definition but fairly accurate.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | The terms....Conservative Democrat and Democratic Conservative. Please explain this. Is this right-of-center, or left-of-center governing? This was mentioned a few times on the BBC World yesterday in regards to Obama. Thank you.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:58:45 AM |
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| [_strat_] Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:52:18 AM | |
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Aha, so thats the way of it...
You are forgiven my son. But since you were insolent to correct me, I order you to pay a fine of 1000$. Me, your lord, comands it.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:48:54 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | As I most certainly do NOT want to be suspected as part of this 'conspiracy', I will accept your response as the absolute truth and ask your forgiveness for my insolence.
| | | stratlover wrote: | | I assure you, strating is quite correct, and if anyone tells you otherwise, they are obviously a part of the infamous anti-me conspiracy.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | You're right! It IS Somalia...Oh, and by the by, it is staRting.... BWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Love ya, strat!!!!
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, there you have it. Im strating to think that even the "lesser" of two evils is inaccurate.
Oh, and btw. its Somalia, not Somolia.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | BS, you are fairly close with your assumption. The term democratic conservative simply relates to a Democrat with conservative views (less government, less taxes, lower spending, less social programs, etc). That is a rather simplistic definition but fairly accurate.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | The terms....Conservative Democrat and Democratic Conservative. Please explain this. Is this right-of-center, or left-of-center governing? This was mentioned a few times on the BBC World yesterday in regards to Obama. Thank you.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:58:45 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:48:54 AM | |
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As I most certainly do NOT want to be suspected as part of this 'conspiracy', I will accept your response as the absolute truth and ask your forgiveness for my insolence.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:46:01 AM)| | | stratlover wrote: | | I assure you, strating is quite correct, and if anyone tells you otherwise, they are obviously a part of the infamous anti-me conspiracy.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | You're right! It IS Somalia...Oh, and by the by, it is staRting.... BWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Love ya, strat!!!!
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, there you have it. Im strating to think that even the "lesser" of two evils is inaccurate.
Oh, and btw. its Somalia, not Somolia.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | BS, you are fairly close with your assumption. The term democratic conservative simply relates to a Democrat with conservative views (less government, less taxes, lower spending, less social programs, etc). That is a rather simplistic definition but fairly accurate.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | The terms....Conservative Democrat and Democratic Conservative. Please explain this. Is this right-of-center, or left-of-center governing? This was mentioned a few times on the BBC World yesterday in regards to Obama. Thank you.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:58:45 AM |
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| [_strat_] Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:46:01 AM | |
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I assure you, strating is quite correct, and if anyone tells you otherwise, they are obviously a part of the infamous anti-me conspiracy.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:21:28 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | You're right! It IS Somalia...Oh, and by the by, it is staRting.... BWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Love ya, strat!!!!
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, there you have it. Im strating to think that even the "lesser" of two evils is inaccurate.
Oh, and btw. its Somalia, not Somolia.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | BS, you are fairly close with your assumption. The term democratic conservative simply relates to a Democrat with conservative views (less government, less taxes, lower spending, less social programs, etc). That is a rather simplistic definition but fairly accurate.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | The terms....Conservative Democrat and Democratic Conservative. Please explain this. Is this right-of-center, or left-of-center governing? This was mentioned a few times on the BBC World yesterday in regards to Obama. Thank you.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:58:45 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:21:28 AM | |
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You're right! It IS Somalia...Oh, and by the by, it is staRting.... BWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Love ya, strat!!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:18:06 AM)| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, there you have it. Im strating to think that even the "lesser" of two evils is inaccurate.
Oh, and btw. its Somalia, not Somolia.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | BS, you are fairly close with your assumption. The term democratic conservative simply relates to a Democrat with conservative views (less government, less taxes, lower spending, less social programs, etc). That is a rather simplistic definition but fairly accurate.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | The terms....Conservative Democrat and Democratic Conservative. Please explain this. Is this right-of-center, or left-of-center governing? This was mentioned a few times on the BBC World yesterday in regards to Obama. Thank you.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:58:45 AM |
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| [_strat_] Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:18:06 AM | |
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Well, there you have it. Im strating to think that even the "lesser" of two evils is inaccurate.
Oh, and btw. its Somalia, not Somolia.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:04:15 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | BS, you are fairly close with your assumption. The term democratic conservative simply relates to a Democrat with conservative views (less government, less taxes, lower spending, less social programs, etc). That is a rather simplistic definition but fairly accurate.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | The terms....Conservative Democrat and Democratic Conservative. Please explain this. Is this right-of-center, or left-of-center governing? This was mentioned a few times on the BBC World yesterday in regards to Obama. Thank you.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:58:45 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:04:15 AM | |
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BS, you are fairly close with your assumption. The term democratic conservative simply relates to a Democrat with conservative views (less government, less taxes, lower spending, less social programs, etc). That is a rather simplistic definition but fairly accurate.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by BLOOD SUCKER Esquire from Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:58:00 AM)| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | The terms....Conservative Democrat and Democratic Conservative. Please explain this. Is this right-of-center, or left-of-center governing? This was mentioned a few times on the BBC World yesterday in regards to Obama. Thank you.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:58:45 AM |
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| [BLOOD SUCKER Esquire] Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:58:00 AM | |
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The terms....Conservative Democrat and Democratic Conservative. Please explain this. Is this right-of-center, or left-of-center governing? This was mentioned a few times on the BBC World yesterday in regards to Obama. Thank you.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:58:45 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:46:17 AM | |
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You TELL 'em, MM!!!! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wow!
so Bush "saw it coming",huh?? And I suppose Adams and Madison saw the British coming when they refused to fight Napoleon? And perhaps Lincoln saw the Civil War coming? And Clinton certainly saw 911 coming when he screwed up in Somolia??? You are KILLING me, dude!!!!!!! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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| [METAL MELTDOWN] Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:42:15 AM | |
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Read a little closer DUDE.. my post was intended to be sacarsm. Do you think I believe he started WWII??? Hmm
No I do not think the credit problem was Bush's... BUT his admin saw it coming.....
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Darth_Painkiller_0870 from Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:36:23 AM)| | | Darth_Painkiller_0870 wrote: | | The credit problem was Bush's fault???? HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh please, enlighten us MM! I have to read that!
| | | METAL MELTDOWN wrote: | | On the contrary...I quite like bush.........
OH...... you mean THAT Bush!!!
YES the credit problem was Bush's fault as was WWII, the Spanish Inquisition and that case of genital warts that Bob gave to Alice back in 1967.....
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wondered if you were ever going to show up and actually say something. WOW.
Look man, I know you are a Bush Hater. You never tried to hide it. Unfortunately, it is NOT Bush's fault. At least not all of it. Like I have been saying for a LONG time, the blame for the crap we are in lies firmly on the heads of the "buying public".
It is SO easy to blame the president. He is "in charge". He is 'responsible". Well, OK. Maybe so but he certainly did not take a gun and hold it to the heads of the MILLIONS of MORONS that signed crappy mortgages for homes the KNEW they could NOT afford!!! Bush NEVER told ANYONE to buy crap on credit that they could NOT afford to pay for with CASH. It all comes down to being financially responsible for YOURSELF. It really amazes me how many Americans did NOT give back that "lousy" stimulus check you mentioned! Hmm.. interesting indeed.
I do not need to defend Bush any longer, as I do not believe he did a great job. But he did not destroy this country as so many "haters" would have us believe. WE did it to OURSELVES. Take a look at the amount of CREDIT BURDEN the average American has, man! Is THAT Bush's fault too????? Please!
| | | METAL MELTDOWN wrote: | | I should have stayed out of this thread.....
WTF is all of you worried about? Take a look at the last 4 or 8 years in this country and tell me, seriously, how any of you can think that more of the same would be better. Give Obama a fucking break and some time, then open your mouths and bitch if he makes it worse and I really dont think that is possible.
Everyone was beating off over bush winning the last time and look at the state we are in today. If he were the CEO of some fortune 500 company, he would have been drummed out years ago and please spare me the "he inherited this mess" B.S.. Even if he did, not much was done about it....OH.....I am sorry, I forgot about my 300 economic stimulus check. Boy that sure saved my ass!!!!!
| | | Darth_Painkiller_0870 wrote: | | | Okay...the socialist won. We're doomed. Check back with me in about 3 years if you think I'm kidding. |
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| [Deep Freeze] Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:34:39 AM | |
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Yes.
Yes.
HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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| [Head banger] Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:29:48 AM | |
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heck, as I recall there is nothing he can do untill Jan, no?
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:22:38 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Quite correct, strat. Obama is a liberal. I do not believe he is a "socialist". He made a few comments during the campaign that sounded socialist, but he clearly is not. Not in the truest sense of the word. As for being the "lesser" of two "evils", that is strictly a matter of perspective.
As I said yesterday, he has not done anything, yet. We are a LONG way from having anything with which to discuss. |
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| [Head banger] Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:29:13 AM | |
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heck, as I recall there is nothing he can do untill Jan, no?
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:22:38 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Quite correct, strat. Obama is a liberal. I do not believe he is a "socialist". He made a few comments during the campaign that sounded socialist, but he clearly is not. Not in the truest sense of the word. As for being the "lesser" of two "evils", that is strictly a matter of perspective.
As I said yesterday, he has not done anything, yet. We are a LONG way from having anything with which to discuss. |
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| [Deep Freeze] Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:22:38 AM | |
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Quite correct, strat. Obama is a liberal. I do not believe he is a "socialist". He made a few comments during the campaign that sounded socialist, but he clearly is not. Not in the truest sense of the word. As for being the "lesser" of two "evils", that is strictly a matter of perspective.
As I said yesterday, he has not done anything, yet. We are a LONG way from having anything with which to discuss. |
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| [_strat_] Thursday, November 06, 2008 9:32:57 AM | |
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Obama is a liberal if anything. Calling him a socialist is as ignorant as rightists can get. If a socialist would win the US elections, well then I might even congratulate them. But they did pick the lesser of two evils, thats a start, if nothing else.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by BLOOD SUCKER Esquire from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 4:30:22 PM)| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | Socialist? I thought this was a positive step forward for your country? A man with principle, that could see past the color barriers. And someone that, as he put it, was willing to overlook the Red-state Blue-state logic. Why is this a bad thing?
a. Hammerstein
| | | Darth_Painkiller_0870 wrote: | | | Okay...the socialist won. We're doomed. Check back with me in about 3 years if you think I'm kidding. |
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| [Return_of_Darth_Painkiller_0870] Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:39:28 AM | |
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I haven't seen a positive step forward yet BSE. The man just got elected. I decided to take a 'wait and see' approach to him before I make any further judgement about the man. And as far as being "bi-partisian"? He's the most liberal member of Congress with the exception of Harry Reid, D-Nevada. Bi-partisian? I think not.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by BLOOD SUCKER Esquire from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 4:30:22 PM)| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | Socialist? I thought this was a positive step forward for your country? A man with principle, that could see past the color barriers. And someone that, as he put it, was willing to overlook the Red-state Blue-state logic. Why is this a bad thing?
a. Hammerstein
| | | Darth_Painkiller_0870 wrote: | | | Okay...the socialist won. We're doomed. Check back with me in about 3 years if you think I'm kidding. |
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| [Return_of_Darth_Painkiller_0870] Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:36:23 AM | |
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The credit problem was Bush's fault???? HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh please, enlighten us MM! I have to read that!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by METAL MELTDOWN from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 3:07:04 PM)| | | METAL MELTDOWN wrote: | | On the contrary...I quite like bush.........
OH...... you mean THAT Bush!!!
YES the credit problem was Bush's fault as was WWII, the Spanish Inquisition and that case of genital warts that Bob gave to Alice back in 1967.....
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wondered if you were ever going to show up and actually say something. WOW.
Look man, I know you are a Bush Hater. You never tried to hide it. Unfortunately, it is NOT Bush's fault. At least not all of it. Like I have been saying for a LONG time, the blame for the crap we are in lies firmly on the heads of the "buying public".
It is SO easy to blame the president. He is "in charge". He is 'responsible". Well, OK. Maybe so but he certainly did not take a gun and hold it to the heads of the MILLIONS of MORONS that signed crappy mortgages for homes the KNEW they could NOT afford!!! Bush NEVER told ANYONE to buy crap on credit that they could NOT afford to pay for with CASH. It all comes down to being financially responsible for YOURSELF. It really amazes me how many Americans did NOT give back that "lousy" stimulus check you mentioned! Hmm.. interesting indeed.
I do not need to defend Bush any longer, as I do not believe he did a great job. But he did not destroy this country as so many "haters" would have us believe. WE did it to OURSELVES. Take a look at the amount of CREDIT BURDEN the average American has, man! Is THAT Bush's fault too????? Please!
| | | METAL MELTDOWN wrote: | | I should have stayed out of this thread.....
WTF is all of you worried about? Take a look at the last 4 or 8 years in this country and tell me, seriously, how any of you can think that more of the same would be better. Give Obama a fucking break and some time, then open your mouths and bitch if he makes it worse and I really dont think that is possible.
Everyone was beating off over bush winning the last time and look at the state we are in today. If he were the CEO of some fortune 500 company, he would have been drummed out years ago and please spare me the "he inherited this mess" B.S.. Even if he did, not much was done about it....OH.....I am sorry, I forgot about my 300 economic stimulus check. Boy that sure saved my ass!!!!!
| | | Darth_Painkiller_0870 wrote: | | | Okay...the socialist won. We're doomed. Check back with me in about 3 years if you think I'm kidding. |
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| [BLOOD SUCKER Esquire] Wednesday, November 05, 2008 4:30:22 PM | |
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Socialist? I thought this was a positive step forward for your country? A man with principle, that could see past the color barriers. And someone that, as he put it, was willing to overlook the Red-state Blue-state logic. Why is this a bad thing?
a. Hammerstein
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Darth_Painkiller_0870 from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 4:58:45 AM)| | | Darth_Painkiller_0870 wrote: | | | Okay...the socialist won. We're doomed. Check back with me in about 3 years if you think I'm kidding. |
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| [METAL MELTDOWN] Wednesday, November 05, 2008 3:07:04 PM | |
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On the contrary...I quite like bush.........
OH...... you mean THAT Bush!!!
YES the credit problem was Bush's fault as was WWII, the Spanish Inquisition and that case of genital warts that Bob gave to Alice back in 1967.....
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:52:42 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wondered if you were ever going to show up and actually say something. WOW.
Look man, I know you are a Bush Hater. You never tried to hide it. Unfortunately, it is NOT Bush's fault. At least not all of it. Like I have been saying for a LONG time, the blame for the crap we are in lies firmly on the heads of the "buying public".
It is SO easy to blame the president. He is "in charge". He is 'responsible". Well, OK. Maybe so but he certainly did not take a gun and hold it to the heads of the MILLIONS of MORONS that signed crappy mortgages for homes the KNEW they could NOT afford!!! Bush NEVER told ANYONE to buy crap on credit that they could NOT afford to pay for with CASH. It all comes down to being financially responsible for YOURSELF. It really amazes me how many Americans did NOT give back that "lousy" stimulus check you mentioned! Hmm.. interesting indeed.
I do not need to defend Bush any longer, as I do not believe he did a great job. But he did not destroy this country as so many "haters" would have us believe. WE did it to OURSELVES. Take a look at the amount of CREDIT BURDEN the average American has, man! Is THAT Bush's fault too????? Please!
| | | METAL MELTDOWN wrote: | | I should have stayed out of this thread.....
WTF is all of you worried about? Take a look at the last 4 or 8 years in this country and tell me, seriously, how any of you can think that more of the same would be better. Give Obama a fucking break and some time, then open your mouths and bitch if he makes it worse and I really dont think that is possible.
Everyone was beating off over bush winning the last time and look at the state we are in today. If he were the CEO of some fortune 500 company, he would have been drummed out years ago and please spare me the "he inherited this mess" B.S.. Even if he did, not much was done about it....OH.....I am sorry, I forgot about my 300 economic stimulus check. Boy that sure saved my ass!!!!!
| | | Darth_Painkiller_0870 wrote: | | | Okay...the socialist won. We're doomed. Check back with me in about 3 years if you think I'm kidding. |
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| [LORD of TEXAS] Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:42:25 PM | |
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Obama will help people with disabilities....i need all the help i can get.....
Edited at: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:47:37 PM |
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| [Redman] Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:31:24 PM | |
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Hah, just popped in to say hello  I heard that there is some country on the other side of the lake and that they just selected a new president... and then I just logged in and just knew that you guys would be talking about it *nod nod*.
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| [Deep Freeze] Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:15:07 PM | |
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HA!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm afraid a "clue" is all we really have right now, Lord. No way to tell if the "right" man got the job or not, as he has not done anything yet! Time will tell. I am glad you are back and so very vocal!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by LORD of TEXAS from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 1:54:00 PM)| | | LORD of TEXAS wrote: | | Damn...guys get a clue................I very happy for one.........The right man got the job.....
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| [LORD of TEXAS] Wednesday, November 05, 2008 1:54:00 PM | |
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Damn...guys get a clue................I very happy for one.........The right man got the job.....
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| [Head banger] Wednesday, November 05, 2008 1:34:27 PM | |
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come on, mcain is responsible for crucifixion. he is old!!! bush is responsible for the clone wars. oops wrong book, the crusades.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 12:32:23 PM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Exactly! Jeez, you would think that they would start blaming Bush for the friggin Crucifixion!!!!!!!!!!!
Look, I understand that he has a responsibility. Such is the burden of office. I just take offense when Bush is blamed for things that are clearly NOT his doing. I would take the same offense if it were Obama or anyone else! (Except maybe Hillary. I do believe she did cause the Great Plague) It astonishes me how people in this country refuse to accept responsibility for the STUPID things they do. It is because they DO expect the government to bail them out.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | HA. come on. he created huricane katrina too. funny, our PM was blamed here for the "global economic crisis" I wonder how he forced americans to sign bad loans?
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wondered if you were ever going to show up and actually say something. WOW.
Look man, I know you are a Bush Hater. You never tried to hide it. Unfortunately, it is NOT Bush's fault. At least not all of it. Like I have been saying for a LONG time, the blame for the crap we are in lies firmly on the heads of the "buying public".
It is SO easy to blame the president. He is "in charge". He is 'responsible". Well, OK. Maybe so but he certainly did not take a gun and hold it to the heads of the MILLIONS of MORONS that signed crappy mortgages for homes the KNEW they could NOT afford!!! Bush NEVER told ANYONE to buy crap on credit that they could NOT afford to pay for with CASH. It all comes down to being financially responsible for YOURSELF. It really amazes me how many Americans did NOT give back that "lousy" stimulus check you mentioned! Hmm.. interesting indeed.
I do not need to defend Bush any longer, as I do not believe he did a great job. But he did not destroy this country as so many "haters" would have us believe. WE did it to OURSELVES. Take a look at the amount of CREDIT BURDEN the average American has, man! Is THAT Bush's fault too????? Please!
| | | METAL MELTDOWN wrote: | | I should have stayed out of this thread.....
WTF is all of you worried about? Take a look at the last 4 or 8 years in this country and tell me, seriously, how any of you can think that more of the same would be better. Give Obama a fucking break and some time, then open your mouths and bitch if he makes it worse and I really dont think that is possible.
Everyone was beating off over bush winning the last time and look at the state we are in today. If he were the CEO of some fortune 500 company, he would have been drummed out years ago and please spare me the "he inherited this mess" B.S.. Even if he did, not much was done about it....OH.....I am sorry, I forgot about my 300 economic stimulus check. Boy that sure saved my ass!!!!!
| | | Darth_Painkiller_0870 wrote: | | | Okay...the socialist won. We're doomed. Check back with me in about 3 years if you think I'm kidding. |
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| [Deep Freeze] Wednesday, November 05, 2008 12:32:23 PM | |
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HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Exactly! Jeez, you would think that they would start blaming Bush for the friggin Crucifixion!!!!!!!!!!!
Look, I understand that he has a responsibility. Such is the burden of office. I just take offense when Bush is blamed for things that are clearly NOT his doing. I would take the same offense if it were Obama or anyone else! (Except maybe Hillary. I do believe she did cause the Great Plague) It astonishes me how people in this country refuse to accept responsibility for the STUPID things they do. It is because they DO expect the government to bail them out.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 12:25:29 PM)| | | Head banger wrote: | | HA. come on. he created huricane katrina too. funny, our PM was blamed here for the "global economic crisis" I wonder how he forced americans to sign bad loans?
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wondered if you were ever going to show up and actually say something. WOW.
Look man, I know you are a Bush Hater. You never tried to hide it. Unfortunately, it is NOT Bush's fault. At least not all of it. Like I have been saying for a LONG time, the blame for the crap we are in lies firmly on the heads of the "buying public".
It is SO easy to blame the president. He is "in charge". He is 'responsible". Well, OK. Maybe so but he certainly did not take a gun and hold it to the heads of the MILLIONS of MORONS that signed crappy mortgages for homes the KNEW they could NOT afford!!! Bush NEVER told ANYONE to buy crap on credit that they could NOT afford to pay for with CASH. It all comes down to being financially responsible for YOURSELF. It really amazes me how many Americans did NOT give back that "lousy" stimulus check you mentioned! Hmm.. interesting indeed.
I do not need to defend Bush any longer, as I do not believe he did a great job. But he did not destroy this country as so many "haters" would have us believe. WE did it to OURSELVES. Take a look at the amount of CREDIT BURDEN the average American has, man! Is THAT Bush's fault too????? Please!
| | | METAL MELTDOWN wrote: | | I should have stayed out of this thread.....
WTF is all of you worried about? Take a look at the last 4 or 8 years in this country and tell me, seriously, how any of you can think that more of the same would be better. Give Obama a fucking break and some time, then open your mouths and bitch if he makes it worse and I really dont think that is possible.
Everyone was beating off over bush winning the last time and look at the state we are in today. If he were the CEO of some fortune 500 company, he would have been drummed out years ago and please spare me the "he inherited this mess" B.S.. Even if he did, not much was done about it....OH.....I am sorry, I forgot about my 300 economic stimulus check. Boy that sure saved my ass!!!!!
| | | Darth_Painkiller_0870 wrote: | | | Okay...the socialist won. We're doomed. Check back with me in about 3 years if you think I'm kidding. |
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| [Head banger] Wednesday, November 05, 2008 12:25:29 PM | |
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HA. come on. he created huricane katrina too. funny, our PM was blamed here for the "global economic crisis" I wonder how he forced americans to sign bad loans?
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:52:42 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wondered if you were ever going to show up and actually say something. WOW.
Look man, I know you are a Bush Hater. You never tried to hide it. Unfortunately, it is NOT Bush's fault. At least not all of it. Like I have been saying for a LONG time, the blame for the crap we are in lies firmly on the heads of the "buying public".
It is SO easy to blame the president. He is "in charge". He is 'responsible". Well, OK. Maybe so but he certainly did not take a gun and hold it to the heads of the MILLIONS of MORONS that signed crappy mortgages for homes the KNEW they could NOT afford!!! Bush NEVER told ANYONE to buy crap on credit that they could NOT afford to pay for with CASH. It all comes down to being financially responsible for YOURSELF. It really amazes me how many Americans did NOT give back that "lousy" stimulus check you mentioned! Hmm.. interesting indeed.
I do not need to defend Bush any longer, as I do not believe he did a great job. But he did not destroy this country as so many "haters" would have us believe. WE did it to OURSELVES. Take a look at the amount of CREDIT BURDEN the average American has, man! Is THAT Bush's fault too????? Please!
| | | METAL MELTDOWN wrote: | | I should have stayed out of this thread.....
WTF is all of you worried about? Take a look at the last 4 or 8 years in this country and tell me, seriously, how any of you can think that more of the same would be better. Give Obama a fucking break and some time, then open your mouths and bitch if he makes it worse and I really dont think that is possible.
Everyone was beating off over bush winning the last time and look at the state we are in today. If he were the CEO of some fortune 500 company, he would have been drummed out years ago and please spare me the "he inherited this mess" B.S.. Even if he did, not much was done about it....OH.....I am sorry, I forgot about my 300 economic stimulus check. Boy that sure saved my ass!!!!!
| | | Darth_Painkiller_0870 wrote: | | | Okay...the socialist won. We're doomed. Check back with me in about 3 years if you think I'm kidding. |
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| [Deep Freeze] Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:52:42 AM | |
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HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wondered if you were ever going to show up and actually say something. WOW.
Look man, I know you are a Bush Hater. You never tried to hide it. Unfortunately, it is NOT Bush's fault. At least not all of it. Like I have been saying for a LONG time, the blame for the crap we are in lies firmly on the heads of the "buying public".
It is SO easy to blame the president. He is "in charge". He is 'responsible". Well, OK. Maybe so but he certainly did not take a gun and hold it to the heads of the MILLIONS of MORONS that signed crappy mortgages for homes the KNEW they could NOT afford!!! Bush NEVER told ANYONE to buy crap on credit that they could NOT afford to pay for with CASH. It all comes down to being financially responsible for YOURSELF. It really amazes me how many Americans did NOT give back that "lousy" stimulus check you mentioned! Hmm.. interesting indeed.
I do not need to defend Bush any longer, as I do not believe he did a great job. But he did not destroy this country as so many "haters" would have us believe. WE did it to OURSELVES. Take a look at the amount of CREDIT BURDEN the average American has, man! Is THAT Bush's fault too????? Please!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by METAL MELTDOWN from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:42:13 AM)| | | METAL MELTDOWN wrote: | | I should have stayed out of this thread.....
WTF is all of you worried about? Take a look at the last 4 or 8 years in this country and tell me, seriously, how any of you can think that more of the same would be better. Give Obama a fucking break and some time, then open your mouths and bitch if he makes it worse and I really dont think that is possible.
Everyone was beating off over bush winning the last time and look at the state we are in today. If he were the CEO of some fortune 500 company, he would have been drummed out years ago and please spare me the "he inherited this mess" B.S.. Even if he did, not much was done about it....OH.....I am sorry, I forgot about my 300 economic stimulus check. Boy that sure saved my ass!!!!!
| | | Darth_Painkiller_0870 wrote: | | | Okay...the socialist won. We're doomed. Check back with me in about 3 years if you think I'm kidding. |
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| [Head banger] Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:45:24 AM | |
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right, I just meant that what they say and do are often different things. our govt (at the time) signed Kyoto. did nothing to reduce GHG, infact let them go up. all talk, no action is usualy the way. the ocasional war or crisis is about all they seem to do.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:40:49 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | That is true enough HB, but if you know anything about American History, you will note that the job of president does require action from time to time. I mean, if we take a lesson from John Adams we can see that "non interference" is not always the best idea.
If you recall, Adams did not want to get into the middle of the British/French war. Of course, our trading partners went NUTS!!!! And here in the US, half the country wanted to fight the French and the other half the British! Non interference did not work! Then later, when Britain started grabbing our ships, James Madison decides to declare war on Britain and what happened? ... we got our behinds kicked in the War of 1812!!! Had it not been for Jefferson at New Orleans, we might very well have been burned to the friggin ground by the British!!! Seriously! Madison got his butt run out of the White House by the British and they burned it down!!
My point in all of this is, we cannot just decide to sit back and do nothing. Just as I said yesterday! What would happen if we did nothing? If we kept to ourselves and sealed up the country?? I'm afraid Monroe is not available to sail across the ocean amd make peace for us any longer!
Edited at: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:42:43 AM |
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| [METAL MELTDOWN] Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:42:13 AM | |
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I should have stayed out of this thread.....
WTF is all of you worried about? Take a look at the last 4 or 8 years in this country and tell me, seriously, how any of you can think that more of the same would be better. Give Obama a fucking break and some time, then open your mouths and bitch if he makes it worse and I really dont think that is possible.
Everyone was beating off over bush winning the last time and look at the state we are in today. If he were the CEO of some fortune 500 company, he would have been drummed out years ago and please spare me the "he inherited this mess" B.S.. Even if he did, not much was done about it....OH.....I am sorry, I forgot about my 300 economic stimulus check. Boy that sure saved my ass!!!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Darth_Painkiller_0870 from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 4:58:45 AM)| | | Darth_Painkiller_0870 wrote: | | | Okay...the socialist won. We're doomed. Check back with me in about 3 years if you think I'm kidding. |
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| [Deep Freeze] Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:40:49 AM | |
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That is true enough HB, but if you know anything about American History, you will note that the job of president does require action from time to time. I mean, if we take a lesson from John Adams we can see that "non interference" is not always the best idea.
If you recall, Adams did not want to get into the middle of the British/French war. Of course, our trading partners went NUTS!!!! And here in the US, half the country wanted to fight the French and the other half the British! Non interference did not work! Then later, when Britain started grabbing our ships, James Madison decides to declare war on Britain and what happened? ... we got our behinds kicked in the War of 1812!!! Had it not been for Jefferson at New Orleans, we might very well have been burned to the friggin ground by the British!!! Seriously! Madison got his butt run out of the White House by the British and they burned it down!!
My point in all of this is, we cannot just decide to sit back and do nothing. Just as I said yesterday! What would happen if we did nothing? If we kept to ourselves and sealed up the country?? I'm afraid Monroe is not available to sail across the ocean amd make peace for us any longer!
Edited at: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:42:43 AM |
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| [Head banger] Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:10:52 AM | |
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they all talk, its rare that anything more happens!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Nicholas Fivepennies from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:55:23 AM)| | | Nicholas Fivepennies wrote: | | | I don't think Barack Obama will bring a lot of change at all. It's all pointless pop culture blabber. |
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| [Deep Freeze] Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:49:00 AM | |
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Very well said, Nick. It really is pop culture, is it not? There is NO ONE on earth that could live up to the hype we saw. No one!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Nicholas Fivepennies from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:55:23 AM)| | | Nicholas Fivepennies wrote: | | | I don't think Barack Obama will bring a lot of change at all. It's all pointless pop culture blabber. |
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| [Nicholas Fivepennies] Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:55:23 AM | |
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| I don't think Barack Obama will bring a lot of change at all. It's all pointless pop culture blabber. |
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| [Return_of_Darth_Painkiller_0870] Wednesday, November 05, 2008 7:59:25 AM | |
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I personally think "the machine" has farrrrrrrrrrr too many parts and needs to be scaled down some.
However, your comments on Obama are right on the money.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 7:33:46 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Certainly there are "high hopes". There always are when a new man takes over the White House. Bush made promises, too. They all do. That is part of what they do. I do not believe the country is going to crumble or anything like that. We go on. We managed to get through Clinton so I see no reason to fear. I will say this, if Obama being president can make things better socially (race relations) then I am for that. There is still far too much hate in this country and I would like to see it dissolve.
As for the economy, I really doubt that he is able to do much about that. I mean, he does not have the experience to make those decisions.They will be made for him. Of course, he will take credit (as did Clinton and his supporters) but it will NOT be because Obama is some kind of great leader. The financial situation is being addressed and will right itself through the work of those that actually know what they are doing. The bailout money will not hurt! HA!!!!!!! I can assure you the machine has many wonderful parts and it will be fixed.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | | well, I for one cant wait to see how it goes. Obama promised to reopen the free trade agreements with Canada and mexico, to ensure that they meet enviro and labour standards. most canadians think that we have higher enviro and labour standards. I dunno, never read the american ones. I do know that were I in charge f canada, I would bring the treaty that says we must supply the USA with oil along, and renegotiate both at the same time. |
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| [Deep Freeze] Wednesday, November 05, 2008 7:33:46 AM | |
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Certainly there are "high hopes". There always are when a new man takes over the White House. Bush made promises, too. They all do. That is part of what they do. I do not believe the country is going to crumble or anything like that. We go on. We managed to get through Clinton so I see no reason to fear. I will say this, if Obama being president can make things better socially (race relations) then I am for that. There is still far too much hate in this country and I would like to see it dissolve.
As for the economy, I really doubt that he is able to do much about that. I mean, he does not have the experience to make those decisions.They will be made for him. Of course, he will take credit (as did Clinton and his supporters) but it will NOT be because Obama is some kind of great leader. The financial situation is being addressed and will right itself through the work of those that actually know what they are doing. The bailout money will not hurt! HA!!!!!!! I can assure you the machine has many wonderful parts and it will be fixed.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 7:21:46 AM)| | | Head banger wrote: | | | well, I for one cant wait to see how it goes. Obama promised to reopen the free trade agreements with Canada and mexico, to ensure that they meet enviro and labour standards. most canadians think that we have higher enviro and labour standards. I dunno, never read the american ones. I do know that were I in charge f canada, I would bring the treaty that says we must supply the USA with oil along, and renegotiate both at the same time. |
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| [Head banger] Wednesday, November 05, 2008 7:21:46 AM | |
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| well, I for one cant wait to see how it goes. Obama promised to reopen the free trade agreements with Canada and mexico, to ensure that they meet enviro and labour standards. most canadians think that we have higher enviro and labour standards. I dunno, never read the american ones. I do know that were I in charge f canada, I would bring the treaty that says we must supply the USA with oil along, and renegotiate both at the same time. |
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| [Deep Freeze] Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM | |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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| [DelivererofEvil] Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:34:24 AM | |
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| Congratulations on choosing reason above blind, expired policies. Now you americans and we the world will see what Obama will do of his term at the White House. Quite honestly, I am optimistic about the next 4 years. |
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| [Return_of_Darth_Painkiller_0870] Wednesday, November 05, 2008 4:58:45 AM | |
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| Okay...the socialist won. We're doomed. Check back with me in about 3 years if you think I'm kidding. |
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| [ron h] Wednesday, November 05, 2008 4:45:45 AM | |
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I stand corrected...somewhere between 135-136,000,000 votes...
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by ronhartsell from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 4:11:30 AM)| | | ronhartsell wrote: | | | No one man or woman is going to change anything...but 117,000,000 voters can...now we wait for 2 months for him to take the helm...let's see what GW does with his remaing time... |
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| [ron h] Wednesday, November 05, 2008 4:11:30 AM | |
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| No one man or woman is going to change anything...but 117,000,000 voters can...now we wait for 2 months for him to take the helm...let's see what GW does with his remaing time... |
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| [Udo Sapper] Wednesday, November 05, 2008 3:56:10 AM | |
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Wish you guys good luck with Obama!
Changes are good and let's face it - nothing can be worse than George W. Bush Jr. 
Gruesse
Udo |
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| [BLOOD SUCKER Esquire] Wednesday, November 05, 2008 12:20:45 AM | |
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Good luck with your new President.
a. Hammerstein |
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| [ron h] Tuesday, November 04, 2008 10:18:34 AM | |
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| [Deep Freeze] Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:08:59 AM | |
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If only Clinton would have heeded that advice. Ah well......
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by ronhartsell from Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:04:54 AM)| | | ronhartsell wrote: | | I remember when Clinton won, and everyone's waiting for him to act on all his 'promises'...
In his first class...'Being the President 101'...(orientation)...he's standing there in front of Congress and receives proper applause, then is told to sit down and keep his mouth shut and watch how America is ran!!! If anything, that is a situation I doubt McCain will have to endure, but if Obama wins...
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | | HA!!! I suppose so. They always grant that immunity, don't they? Oh well, not the worst thing that could happen. |
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| [ron h] Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:04:54 AM | |
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I remember when Clinton won, and everyone's waiting for him to act on all his 'promises'...
In his first class...'Being the President 101'...(orientation)...he's standing there in front of Congress and receives proper applause, then is told to sit down and keep his mouth shut and watch how America is ran!!! If anything, that is a situation I doubt McCain will have to endure, but if Obama wins...
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Tuesday, November 04, 2008 7:53:40 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | | HA!!! I suppose so. They always grant that immunity, don't they? Oh well, not the worst thing that could happen. |
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| [Deep Freeze] Tuesday, November 04, 2008 7:53:40 AM | |
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| HA!!! I suppose so. They always grant that immunity, don't they? Oh well, not the worst thing that could happen. |
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| [ron h] Tuesday, November 04, 2008 7:42:35 AM | |
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Just a little teasing on this most beautiful of Fall mornings.
In all honesty, but from the time the 'old' Prez leaves and grants ALL his friends immunty and clemency to sveral hundred criminals and the'new' Prez takes over is probably the most action you'll see out of Washington for quite awhile. Isn't the first order of business for the 'new' is to take a "well deserved" vacation to Camp David??
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Tuesday, November 04, 2008 7:33:46 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | | Sinister?? Me? Oh come now, my friend. I am no seer! I am merely evaluating the situation and giving an opinion! Nothing more.............. |
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| [Deep Freeze] Tuesday, November 04, 2008 7:33:46 AM | |
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| Sinister?? Me? Oh come now, my friend. I am no seer! I am merely evaluating the situation and giving an opinion! Nothing more.............. |
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| [ron h] Tuesday, November 04, 2008 7:31:42 AM | |
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Jeez DF, you sound a bit sinister in your post...you know something I don't??
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Tuesday, November 04, 2008 6:32:00 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | A fine Tuesday to you all. A very, very big day in America! Today, we Americans will make political history in our beloved country. I truly believe that there is not a one of you that does not know what this day is all about.
Rather than go on about my choice versus the other candidate/party, I thought I would comment on the state in which we find ourselves on this most important day. Not since the early 1940's has the US been in such a condition. The world is a far different place and, for old men like me, this day will quite likely be the day that changes our lives forever. It is a new time. A time when the values and issues of great importance are no longer what they were. A time when this entire country has morphed into something nearly unrecognizable to those of us that can recall those days gone by.
To try to compare what we are now and what we were is completely unfair, since it is such a subjective opinion. There are so many that feel we are in need of "change", That we are no longer "the strongest nation on earth". That we shouldn't be. That we should be more like the other countries in the world and try to blend into what they believe is the "right" course.
This world has indeed changed. In 1942, we came to save the "oppressed". To rescue the world from tyranny. Now, many say we are the tyrants. America has a "bad name" in the world's eye and we are too arrogant. Or so I am told.
I wonder how this world would be without the United States? I know that sounds like a petty argument but if you can, just for a moment, imagine what this world would be like if America sealed her borders, cut off ALL aid to any and all foreign nations and decided to stay out of the affairs of everyone else? Can you even picture it? I just wonder what would happen?
I suppose I could speculate. Use conjecture and draw for all of you an image that I see in my mind. I will not bore you with such nonsense.
In a few short hours, this country will change. This country will take a new course. History will be made, one way or another. I can assure you all, even those of you in other countries, that YOUR lives will change too. Remember that. For today, you will witness history and you will soon know what that really means.
Edited at: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 6:38:55 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Tuesday, November 04, 2008 6:32:00 AM | |
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A fine Tuesday to you all. A very, very big day in America! Today, we Americans will make political history in our beloved country. I truly believe that there is not a one of you that does not know what this day is all about.
Rather than go on about my choice versus the other candidate/party, I thought I would comment on the state in which we find ourselves on this most important day. Not since the early 1940's has the US been in such a condition. The world is a far different place and, for old men like me, this day will quite likely be the day that changes our lives forever. It is a new time. A time when the values and issues of great importance are no longer what they were. A time when this entire country has morphed into something nearly unrecognizable to those of us that can recall those days gone by.
To try to compare what we are now and what we were is completely unfair, since it is such a subjective opinion. There are so many that feel we are in need of "change", That we are no longer "the strongest nation on earth". That we shouldn't be. That we should be more like the other countries in the world and try to blend into what they believe is the "right" course.
This world has indeed changed. In 1942, we came to save the "oppressed". To rescue the world from tyranny. Now, many say we are the tyrants. America has a "bad name" in the world's eye and we are too arrogant. Or so I am told.
I wonder how this world would be without the United States? I know that sounds like a petty argument but if you can, just for a moment, imagine what this world would be like if America sealed her borders, cut off ALL aid to any and all foreign nations and decided to stay out of the affairs of everyone else? Can you even picture it? I just wonder what would happen?
I suppose I could speculate. Use conjecture and draw for all of you an image that I see in my mind. I will not bore you with such nonsense.
In a few short hours, this country will change. This country will take a new course. History will be made, one way or another. I can assure you all, even those of you in other countries, that YOUR lives will change too. Remember that. For today, you will witness history and you will soon know what that really means.
Edited at: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 6:38:55 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Thursday, October 23, 2008 12:27:43 PM | |
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HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Kendall, my friend! It appears we keep missing one another! I am doing a bit better. That evil, demonic doctor of mine has me in the gym every morning on a diabolical device called a treadmill. I believe it is something originally used during the Spanish Inquisition. HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am in pain all the time but I do FEEL stronger, you know? It's hard to explain.
In any event, it is GREAT to see you! Please come back more often.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Kendall aka JudasRyche from Thursday, October 23, 2008 10:58:53 AM)| | | Kendall aka JudasRyche wrote: | | FREEZE---Thanks! I haven't been around at all. maybe twice in 5 months. But I'll be around...feeling better ? (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Friday, October 17, 2008 3:28:52 PM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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| KENDALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was wondering what was taking you so long!!?!?!?!! So good to see you and I am glad you are still carrying the banner! Well done, my friend! |
Edited at: Thursday, October 23, 2008 10:59:19 AM |
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| [Kendall aka JudasRyche] Thursday, October 23, 2008 10:58:53 AM | |
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FREEZE---Thanks! I haven't been around at all. maybe twice in 5 months. But I'll be around...feeling better ? [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Friday, October 17, 2008 3:28:52 PM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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| KENDALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was wondering what was taking you so long!!?!?!?!! So good to see you and I am glad you are still carrying the banner! Well done, my friend! |
Edited at: Thursday, October 23, 2008 10:59:19 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Friday, October 17, 2008 3:28:52 PM | |
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| KENDALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was wondering what was taking you so long!!?!?!?!! So good to see you and I am glad you are still carrying the banner! Well done, my friend! |
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| [Kendall aka JudasRyche] Friday, October 17, 2008 2:57:23 PM | |
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Blood..Well said!!! The great pity is that everyone is NOT-informed and/or cares to look at WHO has made up and has been steering this great "business plan" of the "Brave New World".
It's just astounding to realize that something that I always knew really that the countries that went into fight supposedly national socialism and won, supposedly, came out of it as national socialist countries because the governments had taken over massive rights to rule farmers and all the infrastructure of the nation. Britain was the same. I used to laugh at Winston Churchill's replays of his old speeches when he told the British public to go off and fight to retain their way of life and their system, their ancient cherished system – while his own secretary released a book called "The Fringes of Power" and admitted that in his own particular peer class he was celebrating the fact that out of this war in Europe would come a united Europe, the dream that they'd had for ages. So we're all conned down the river, all of us and all those poor guys that go off to all these wars to fight for this socialist order never really figure it out afterwards. They're too proud of having done their bit. They can't see the big picture and they don't see where it's all going.
There's no doubt about it, even with Cecil Rhodes who started up the Cecil Rhodes Society that was meant to take over all the corporate interests and minerals rights of the world, coupled with Lord Alfred Milner's group, The Round Table Society, eventually merged together with Cecil Rhodes and became the League of Nations and then it became the United Nations/Royal Institute of Foreign affairs. They had it all planned then, to bring in this world socialist state, a state run by the fascists at the top, those who deemed themselves worthy of ruling the lessers and also the commoners would be run with masses of bureaucracies in a communistic fashion: The marriage of fascism and communism. That's what it's all about. The right and the left come together, planned 100-odd years ago, probably longer actually. At least the records that we now get access to are 100 years old.
That's what Alvin Toffler's book "The Third Wave"(the hero of Newt Gingrech) is all about, the coming together of the two systems. If you want to read Gorbachev's speech to the politburo, look up the Toronto Sun. Go back in its records and check Eric Margolis' write up on Gorbachev's last speech to them because he says to them "you'll hear that communism is dead. Don't believe it. We're simply moving into the next phase."
What does he mean by that? Go back in the writings of Lenin. Lenin said the dictatorship will last about 70 years and then we shall merge into the West. The system that will come out of it will be not quite capitalist and quite socialist. What he's talking about is this new – it's actually global socialism, a globalist fascist system at the top running the whole kit-and-caboodle. That's what it's all about and they have written about it, the big players wrote about it. They just haven't taught it in school. They've kept us all in the dark. They've taught everyone to be nice little social citizens, have a group-think, talk about what's on television and just play ourselves forever and purr like cats that have been fed and well stroked. That's how we've been trained.
This is what Aldous Huxley (the great eliteist psychopath)talked about, the methods into the Brave New World with his book that came out after it, which was "Brave New World Revisited". He was quite confident that through a scientific means and scientific education all of their plans could be brought about, they could literally scientifically train billions of people across the planet not to notice the direction in which they were going. We could be trained to believe that everything that happens scientifically and where science would take us was all quite natural, by simply putting it out in front of us. Putting it into movies to make it exciting and we'd all go along with it and unfortunately, so far it's worked. He also talked about the ultimate destruction of the last vestige of the family unit, especially between male and female.
Now you have new redefined families of all kinds. They've been very successful with that too. Men really have been neutered and they're not men anymore. They sit and adopt the image that's given to them by television and pushed by the culture at the top. They pretend they just love sports and think about nothing else, swig beer and keep their mouths shut, because, after all, all the comedies say that they're dumb stupid creatures that are kept around as pets by the women who actually stay with them. That's what they've adopted. They've adopted a role projected by the media and the entertainment business and unfortunately, the marriage system is almost kaput.
You destroy the family unit. You then separate the child from the family and as Lord Bertrand Russell (another elitist "liberal" leader) said that we always believed we've have to eventually take away the children all together at birth from their mothers and never allow them to know who their parents were, in order to recondition them into a brand new system. But by using experimental schools, he said, we found that through scientific indoctrination at kindergarten the parental influence won't work on the child. It will just bounce off the child. The scientific indoctrination will be stronger. Well, lo and behold, that's happened too. A couple of years ago when there was a strike of daycare workers in Ontario, maybe other parts of Canada, the women were in the streets with plaquards demanding that big brother, you know the big daddy there, the government, takes care of this for them. So here you have them demanding the very thing that the elitists wanted a long time ago. The mothers are demanding that the state take care of their children for them to get all this going because they had to get to work. When they split up the family unit, it was not because they liked women. They don't like women at all. It was to double the tax base, for one, and to destroy the family unit, number two, and so there was no one at home to have parental influence over the child. They might give them “contaminated ideas,” and that's the terms they use at the top. Contamination of ideas must not be passed on, meaning old fashioned values.
We are run, not by "parties" but by huge Foundations with major think tanks, ie the Royal Institute for Foriegn Affairs/Council for Foreign Relations with think tanks like the Club of Rome and Earth Council Alliance. Remember the "1,000 points of light" Bush 1 was talking about. It's time for folks to start doing their own research and look into all the published books by these masters of "our" given reality. It's quite simple to do.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by BLOOD SUCKER Esquire from Wednesday, October 15, 2008 3:56:28 PM)
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BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: |
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The great struggle in any democracy is to know when to open and close the public purse. Blair was of the mind to hold the Kingdom hostage at the expense of the unions. Saying that, I assume that moral decay sets in after a certain point, and this may also happen in America. It takes many years to crawl out of the cesspool that a governemnt of this style leaves for it's citizens when they are voted out of power. And it takes many years to recover from the damage that they leave behind. Pity the misinformed electorate.
a. Hammerstein |
Edited at: Friday, October 17, 2008 3:04:10 PM
Edited at: Friday, October 17, 2008 3:09:33 PM |
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| [BLOOD SUCKER Esquire] Wednesday, October 15, 2008 3:56:28 PM | |
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The great struggle in any democracy is to know when to open and close the public purse. Blair was of the mind to hold the Kingdom hostage at the expense of the unions. Saying that, I assume that moral decay sets in after a certain point, and this may also happen in America. It takes many years to crawl out of the cesspool that a governemnt of this style leaves for it's citizens when they are voted out of power. And it takes many years to recover from the damage that they leave behind. Pity the misinformed electorate.
a. Hammerstein |
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| [~ MG_Metalgoddess~] Wednesday, October 15, 2008 6:45:57 AM | |
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Oh Freeze And Pain Kllr... I thank you for your fairness.. I only hope for the USA that things change.. It so disheartens me to see so many hard working americans, losing jobs, and homes, that some of you have worked so hard for.
I only wish the best for everyone.. Its to bad that there isnt someone out there, that could seriousley come forward, and give the public a non-bias opinion.. and actually try and come up with a solution to the problems facing the future of the USA.. HEALER is right .... Neither candate has really mapped out thier plan.. At least it would give the general public, a fair chance.. ( not that they follow through with these plans ever.) but then more people could beheld accountable. For future elections.. Its the same here in Canada, as far as politics go.. Harper wanted Conserv. run goverment. so he called a election.. but he didnt get it..
I have family and friends that still live in the USA.. And I worry so much about them.. healthcare, retirement.. ect..
Thank you for beign so -open-minded.. I love you guys.. And Iam sorry If I got upset.. but my family is still in the USA.. and I worry..
It is a scary time for everyone.. And I hope for the best.. To all
And Painkiller... you can PM Me I dont mind...LOL Sean Hannity gets on my nerves.. He is rude to people. from both parties..
Hugs to you all and have a great day...
MG~ |
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| [Healer] Tuesday, October 14, 2008 9:23:24 PM | |
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I think the point of this report was to drive the point that people really don't know who Obama is. Like Freeze has said, most of the general public would not know and issue from a tisuue (love that Freeze) and because the economy has tanked and everyone is scared they are blaming the current administration. For some reason they believe getting any Democrat in office is going to "fix" everything. They are blindly voting for a man who grew up and was very close to a racist preacher and then knowingly associated with a demostic terrorist for years and only when called on it did he distance himself from these men. Many people don't realize where most of his online contributions came from. About half of the 8 million he raised has been traced to middle eastern countries. Do you know how most of his college was paid for? Why are most of the middle eastern countries so interested in Obama becoming president? These are serious questions and people should be worried. Another point is that Democrats already have the majority in Congress and it's looking like they may get the Senate too and now add a Democatic President in the mix and the Democrats have total power over our government. This is never a good thing. There needs to be some balance. It's basicly giving Obama an open checkbook! The American people, especially the young voters, should really take a close look at who they are voting for. I didn't vote for either canidate during the primary and am now stuck with 2 disappointing choices but I know who I definitely don't want in office!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Soylentgreen4u from Sunday, October 12, 2008 6:39:56 PM)| | | Soylentgreen4u wrote: | | CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG,BUT ISN'T "FOX" A REPUBLICAN NETWORK ANYWAY?...SO THIS KIND OF "STUFF" IS TO BE EXPECTED...THIS TUESDAY WE MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE A NEW PRIME MINISTER,BUT I'LL TELL YA',OUR POLITICS MAY BE BORING TO MOST OUTSIDE OBSERVERS,BUT I'M SOOOOOOOO GLAD WE DON'T GET THE CRAP AND THEATRICS OUR NEIGHBORS TO THE SOUTH GET...IT'S 2008 AND WE STILL HAVE ABSOLUTE MORONS WHO WOULD NEVER VOTE FOR SOMEONE DUE TO THE COLOUR OF HIS/HER SKIN!  ...USUALLY THE WORST WE GET UP HERE IS THE CANDIDATES INSINUATING OR CALLING EACH OTHER LIARS...WHAT A RELIEF.
BILL O'REILLY....THERE'S A FINE EXAMPLE OF A NEWS PERSON,IF THERE EVER WAS ONE...
| | | Healer wrote: | | |
Mark your calendars. This will probably stir the pot….
SEAN HANNITY, OF HANNITY & COLMES ~ FOX NEWS,
IS GOING TO AIR A VERY IMPORTANT DOCUMENTARY ABOUT BARACK OBAMA,
HE STATED ON THE AIR THIS EVENING THAT NO ONE IN THE NEWS MEDIA WAS WILLING TO DO THIS.
HANNITY IS GOING BACK TO OBAMA'S EARLIER DAYS, SHOWING EVEN THEN HIS TIES TO RADICAL PROFESSORS, FRIENDS, SPIRITUAL ADVISERS, Etc.,
HE STATED THIS EVENING THAT HE WILL SHOW IN DETAIL HIS TIES TO REV. WRIGHT FOR 20+ YRS (which we all know) HOW HE WAS PARTICIPATING WITH THIS MAN, AND NOT FOR THE REASONS HE STATES!
HE HAS UNCOVERED MORE OF OBAMA'S RADICAL LEADERS AND WE WILL SEE THINGS THAT NO ONE IN THE MEDIA IS WILLING TO PUT OUT THERE.
THIS WILL BE A NIGHT THAT YOU WILL KNOW MORE ABOUT OBAMA THAN EVER BEFORE.
HANNITY IS VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS PROGRAM AND ASKED THAT EVERYONE PLEASE, PLEASE WATCH~~
HANNITY IS DETERMINED THIS INFORMATION BE PUT OUT THERE BECAUSE AS AMERICAN'S,
WE STILL DO NOT KNOW ABOUT OBAMA!!
EVERYONE. I KNOW MOST OF YOU WATCH FOX NEWS, AND YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE VOTING FOR,
PLEASE PASS THIS ON TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW.
THIS IS CRITICAL FOR OUR COUNTRY.
MY PRAYER IS THAT WE, ALONG WITH SEAN HANNITY, WILL REACH SOMEONE/ANYONE BEFORE NOV. 4th.
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| [Deep Freeze] Tuesday, October 14, 2008 8:43:45 PM | |
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My dear lady, regardless of how you feel about American politics, I would never resort to calling you a traitor or any other name. That would be rude and completely pointless. You are welcome to your opinion and I respect that. (By the way, it would be peace of mind...) HAHAHAHAHAA!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by MG_Metalgoddess from Tuesday, October 14, 2008 4:26:25 PM)| | | MG_Metalgoddess wrote: | | Well however you americans now like to look at things is your choice.. I was a reg Independent,,, And That graph is not from a spun democratic site.. it from a USA Goverment site.. so its coming from your goverment.. LOL
They graph doesnt show a surplus.. it shows a debt.. and as you can see reagan ran up a large one.. So for who-ever would have gotten in after Bush sr or Reagan..
Anywased I have nothing against any of you all personaly .. but Like the saying goes .. you reap what you sew..
And I have noticed that no-matter what party gets in they lay blame to the other one.. which is why things will never work out there in america.. The mentality to try and problem solve the econimcal and financial problems.. will never be solved because of all the closed mindedness.. sad but true..
And unfortunatley the media doesnt help people make rational desicions.
Anywase.. Like I said I am glad I dont live there anymore.. Call me a traitor call me what you want.. At least I know I will be able to retire with piece of mind..
Done with this subject..
MG~
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Oh my dear MG! I'm afraid I simply cannot sit quietly while your Clinton reference goes unchallenged. Please forgive me!
Bill Clinton presided over the largest financial surplus this country has ever seen and ran it into the ground. He was a bumbling fool that was completely inept in matters of security and thought only of himself. He was what we refer to as a "limp noodle" with regard to anything other than his extra-marital exploits.
Any financial positives Clinton may have enjoyed were a direct result of the work Ronald Reagan did for this country, NOT Clinton's efforts. Not Bush's. He put this country in a position to be attacked on our own soil by his weaknesses. Do not be fooled by silly graphs and liberal spin! Billl Clinton was a cancer to this great nation, just as his wife is currently. They are a self-serving, power hungry lot that will do and say anything to get what they want.
George W may be unpopular and not very bright, but I would take TEN of him over ONE Clinton. Period. |
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| [Painkiller1990] Tuesday, October 14, 2008 7:53:24 PM | |
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First, I apologize for sending you the IM. I wasn't intending to do that.
Now, your point is really weak because in terms of what the US brings in every year, the deficit is always measured in percentage of the GDP. So while it has gone up purely in numbers, in terms of percentage of the GDP, it's not a big deal.
Let's not forget, Clinton gutted the Military which is how he got a lot of money to pay for his social programs. And, let me remind you, it was the Republican Congress that brought him to the table kicking and screaming, forcing him to balance the budget.
Bush inherited a recession in 2000, and the "surplus" was never an actual surplus, it was a projected surplus... big difference.
Clinton was a doofiss, so is his Wife. But hey, enjoy your new life in Canada, seriously. I give you major props, I really do, atleast you actually changed your citizenship because of your dislike for the US. You walk the walk...
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by MG_Metalgoddess from Tuesday, October 14, 2008 4:26:25 PM)| | | MG_Metalgoddess wrote: | | Well however you americans now like to look at things is your choice.. I was a reg Independent,,, And That graph is not from a spun democratic site.. it from a USA Goverment site.. so its coming from your goverment.. LOL
They graph doesnt show a surplus.. it shows a debt.. and as you can see reagan ran up a large one.. So for who-ever would have gotten in after Bush sr or Reagan..
Anywased I have nothing against any of you all personaly .. but Like the saying goes .. you reap what you sew..
And I have noticed that no-matter what party gets in they lay blame to the other one.. which is why things will never work out there in america.. The mentality to try and problem solve the econimcal and financial problems.. will never be solved because of all the closed mindedness.. sad but true..
And unfortunatley the media doesnt help people make rational desicions.
Anywase.. Like I said I am glad I dont live there anymore.. Call me a traitor call me what you want.. At least I know I will be able to retire with piece of mind..
Done with this subject..
MG~
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Oh my dear MG! I'm afraid I simply cannot sit quietly while your Clinton reference goes unchallenged. Please forgive me!
Bill Clinton presided over the largest financial surplus this country has ever seen and ran it into the ground. He was a bumbling fool that was completely inept in matters of security and thought only of himself. He was what we refer to as a "limp noodle" with regard to anything other than his extra-marital exploits.
Any financial positives Clinton may have enjoyed were a direct result of the work Ronald Reagan did for this country, NOT Clinton's efforts. Not Bush's. He put this country in a position to be attacked on our own soil by his weaknesses. Do not be fooled by silly graphs and liberal spin! Billl Clinton was a cancer to this great nation, just as his wife is currently. They are a self-serving, power hungry lot that will do and say anything to get what they want.
George W may be unpopular and not very bright, but I would take TEN of him over ONE Clinton. Period. |
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| [Head banger] Tuesday, October 14, 2008 4:44:26 PM | |
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I think you might be confusing Debt and deficit. a surplus is oposed by deficit. debt is nearly always a constant in governments, like individuals with a mortgage. in fact, most debts are mortgage type things. its also hard to pin a specific president to any given state. Looking at the graph, the day W took office the Debt took off. he didnt have time to incure any costs, the first few years are inherited. then you consider the world economy...
I dont want to debate US politics, not being there, I just hope its not someone who is blatently oposed to free trade, as that has helped both the USA and Canada.
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| [~ MG_Metalgoddess~] Tuesday, October 14, 2008 4:26:25 PM | |
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Well however you americans now like to look at things is your choice.. I was a reg Independent,,, And That graph is not from a spun democratic site.. it from a USA Goverment site.. so its coming from your goverment.. LOL
They graph doesnt show a surplus.. it shows a debt.. and as you can see reagan ran up a large one.. So for who-ever would have gotten in after Bush sr or Reagan..
Anywased I have nothing against any of you all personaly .. but Like the saying goes .. you reap what you sew..
And I have noticed that no-matter what party gets in they lay blame to the other one.. which is why things will never work out there in america.. The mentality to try and problem solve the econimcal and financial problems.. will never be solved because of all the closed mindedness.. sad but true..
And unfortunatley the media doesnt help people make rational desicions.
Anywase.. Like I said I am glad I dont live there anymore.. Call me a traitor call me what you want.. At least I know I will be able to retire with piece of mind..
Done with this subject..
MG~
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Tuesday, October 14, 2008 3:22:29 PM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Oh my dear MG! I'm afraid I simply cannot sit quietly while your Clinton reference goes unchallenged. Please forgive me!
Bill Clinton presided over the largest financial surplus this country has ever seen and ran it into the ground. He was a bumbling fool that was completely inept in matters of security and thought only of himself. He was what we refer to as a "limp noodle" with regard to anything other than his extra-marital exploits.
Any financial positives Clinton may have enjoyed were a direct result of the work Ronald Reagan did for this country, NOT Clinton's efforts. Not Bush's. He put this country in a position to be attacked on our own soil by his weaknesses. Do not be fooled by silly graphs and liberal spin! Billl Clinton was a cancer to this great nation, just as his wife is currently. They are a self-serving, power hungry lot that will do and say anything to get what they want.
George W may be unpopular and not very bright, but I would take TEN of him over ONE Clinton. Period. |
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| [Deep Freeze] Tuesday, October 14, 2008 3:22:29 PM | |
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Oh my dear MG! I'm afraid I simply cannot sit quietly while your Clinton reference goes unchallenged. Please forgive me!
Bill Clinton presided over the largest financial surplus this country has ever seen and ran it into the ground. He was a bumbling fool that was completely inept in matters of security and thought only of himself. He was what we refer to as a "limp noodle" with regard to anything other than his extra-marital exploits.
Any financial positives Clinton may have enjoyed were a direct result of the work Ronald Reagan did for this country, NOT Clinton's efforts. Not Bush's. He put this country in a position to be attacked on our own soil by his weaknesses. Do not be fooled by silly graphs and liberal spin! Billl Clinton was a cancer to this great nation, just as his wife is currently. They are a self-serving, power hungry lot that will do and say anything to get what they want.
George W may be unpopular and not very bright, but I would take TEN of him over ONE Clinton. Period. |
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