Spherical shapes aside, it is clear that you still do not get it, OR you simply love to irritate me! Never suggested that I would "measure" intelligence by musical selection. I used illustrative phrasing to accentuate a point. Secondly, I said:  I readily admit that there are some incredible musicians still out there. I do not want you to "defend " anyone or anything nor do I believe that ALL Pop music is crap.
 
Next, you said : They make music by sampling, mixing, record "scratching" and all sort of different techniques.  NO. They do not "make" music, they play music someone else has "made". There is a difference. They do not write notes on paper. They do not pick up an instrument and play the notes. They push a button and play someone else's effort. Now, I also understand that there are some true musicians that are "DJs". Great. But being a DJ is NOT akin to being a musician. It is not the same. And you're right. Cavemen probably did create the first music!

As for the "buying public", I still say they are, by and large, idiots. If this was not accurate, more than half of the so-called "artists" would not exist. They offer nothing but audio-trash, a large portion of which is high jacked (recorded) from true musicians' material (songs) and "re-mixed" (stolen), then labeled a song. There ARE many very talented and relevant musicians in today's music. There. I said it again.

There are many different kinds of music and Metal is not the only one which I enjoy. (Please see the What Are You Listening To thread). I enjoy Metal the most. I love R& B. I love Motown. Not too thrilled with Country, but I digress. You are younger than I and certainly closer to the people that enjoy the things we discussed earlier. I have always found you to be engaging and opinionated. I love that. I also will not be changing my definition of musician any time soon. 

   (Quoting Message by _strat_ from Tuesday, February 10, 2009 4:23:42 PM)

		_strat_ wrote:
		Well, first of all, I join everyone else with the best wishes for Necros wife. Second of all I turn to Freeze. Is the world round? Come on, there has to be something we agree on... In any case, I bet that music in general did start with a caveman banging two bones or rocks together. Maybe they were the height of substance and musicianship in their day? IDK... Doesnt really matter anyway. But, the DJs (and youre right - I am knowledgable in this field - I went to school with plenty of people who like that kind of music) dont just "play records". They make music by sampling, mixing, record "scratching" and all sort of different techniques. Even singing and making their own beats to sample and mix. The best DJs posses a lot of skill and musicianship - or they wouldnt be the best. They have a great sense of time and rythm (because thats what their music is basicly all about). Now... I dont really like their music, and I have to congratulate you on your achievement. You actually have me defending them! Now, people who buy into their music (or any other non-metal music for that matter) are certainly not idiots that slobber all over anything that the music industry puts out. I mean, first of all, music tastes are not the way to measure someones intelligence. Second of all, music is not divided into "stupid" and "metal". Oh, and even some pop stars have good quality music... Maybe not really complicated, but good quality. SImply because they can afford to hire the best musicians out there. Oh, and hair... I think that someone called "father time" is stealing them.      Deep Freeze wrote:   Strat! You are killing me!!  HA!!!!!!!!!!!!! Look, I suppose that, if you really dig, you can find something  "special" about almost anything. In music, I suppose you could make  a case for banging two bones together. Would I start handing out awards for doing so? Doubtful. However, if there were to suddenly be a huge public following for a group called..say, "Ook and the Ug Ugs", and they had a new hit "song" called Screaming for Mammoth and became world famous for their "searing" dual-bone leads", I guess I would have to say you have something there. I am sure the public would slobber all over that CD. My point regarding "DJs" has more to do with the act of playing records becoming an "art" than it does whatever skill they may..or may NOT, possess. At the end of the day, it is still just playing records. It is not being a musician. As a younger person, perhaps you are far more knowledgable in this than me? Could be. I have seen it on TV...just like NASCAR..HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (tip of the hat to Tom and 'Days of Thunder') In any event, whether or not I appreciate it, it appears that there are those that will follow it..much like our caveman band I mentioned previously. I do not have to "appreciate" it. I stand by my previous post. The world of music is far from talented in so much as musicianship these days. Having said this, I readily admit that there are some incredible musicians still out there. It's just that the "talent pool" has been watered down courtesy of a public that likes....cave songs. Now then, who took my hair??........HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!      _strat_ wrote:   Lol, Freeze.... What would you do without me? Ok, topics aside, what of talent, writing, singing, musicianship... IDK, many people dont see anything special in the music we listen to. Many people who like those DJs cant appreciate a good guitar solo. Maybe they dont know how to appreciate it? Does that make the virtuoso guitarists that play heavy metal any less good? On the other hand, does the lack of our appreciation fot the DJs make them any less good than they are? What if we arent able to appreciate what they do? There certainly is something to that music. They are not just "putting the records on the turntable and pressing buttons". There is, as in any music a certain amount of skill involved.      Deep Freeze wrote:   Arrrggghh! OK, once again, I will explain myself. (I seem to do that a lot around here)  My comment regarding substance had nothing to do with drugs, love songs or any other particular topic!! Ye GODS!! I was referring to the lack of ability, musicianship and/or talent required to "write" and "sing" such drivel. And moreso when it comes to what passes for Pop/Hip Hop "music". As I have said countless times, the ability to rhyme a series of words in sequence and jump up and down to a "beat" (most often furnished by a recorded sound and NOT a musician)  does NOT make one an "artist", much less a "musician"!!!!!! Further more, just when did it become an "art" to play a record??? I have seen multiple "artists" that claim to be "famous" DJ's. SO FRIGGIN WHAT??!?!?!?  "Oh! Look at me!! I can put a record on a turntable and play it!! WOW!!! I am talented and a musician now!!"  HUH??????? I have complained so many times about the lack of real musical talent in the world and it seems to get worse every year. Musicianship, to me, is actually being able to write music, play an instrument or sing on key! Putting a record on a mechanical device and pushing a button is NOT musicianship!! I did as much in my room at 10 years of age!! Had I any clue then that I was a pioneering artist, I should think I would have grabbed my record player and made my first million!! Little did I know that  the NIMRODS we refer to as the "public" were going to be amazed by such a craft! I missed out on the "pet rock", too.

Well, first of all, I join everyone else with the best wishes for Necros wife.

Second of all I turn to Freeze. Is the world round? Come on, there has to be something we agree on... In any case, I bet that music in general did start with a caveman banging two bones or rocks together. Maybe they were the height of substance and musicianship in their day? IDK... Doesnt really matter anyway. But, the DJs (and youre right - I am knowledgable in this field - I went to school with plenty of people who like that kind of music) dont just "play records". They make music by sampling, mixing, record "scratching" and all sort of different techniques. Even singing and making their own beats to sample and mix. The best DJs posses a lot of skill and musicianship - or they wouldnt be the best. They have a great sense of time and rythm (because thats what their music is basicly all about).

Now... I dont really like their music, and I have to congratulate you on your achievement. You actually have me defending them! Now, people who buy into their music (or any other non-metal music for that matter) are certainly not idiots that slobber all over anything that the music industry puts out. I mean, first of all, music tastes are not the way to measure someones intelligence. Second of all, music is not divided into "stupid" and "metal".

Oh, and even some pop stars have good quality music... Maybe not really complicated, but good quality. SImply because they can afford to hire the best musicians out there.

Oh, and hair... I think that someone called "father time" is stealing them.

		Deep Freeze wrote:
		Strat! You are killing me!!  HA!!!!!!!!!!!!! Look, I suppose that, if you really dig, you can find something  "special" about almost anything. In music, I suppose you could make  a case for banging two bones together. Would I start handing out awards for doing so? Doubtful. However, if there were to suddenly be a huge public following for a group called..say, "Ook and the Ug Ugs", and they had a new hit "song" called Screaming for Mammoth and became world famous for their "searing" dual-bone leads", I guess I would have to say you have something there. I am sure the public would slobber all over that CD. My point regarding "DJs" has more to do with the act of playing records becoming an "art" than it does whatever skill they may..or may NOT, possess. At the end of the day, it is still just playing records. It is not being a musician. As a younger person, perhaps you are far more knowledgable in this than me? Could be. I have seen it on TV...just like NASCAR..HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (tip of the hat to Tom and 'Days of Thunder') In any event, whether or not I appreciate it, it appears that there are those that will follow it..much like our caveman band I mentioned previously. I do not have to "appreciate" it. I stand by my previous post. The world of music is far from talented in so much as musicianship these days. Having said this, I readily admit that there are some incredible musicians still out there. It's just that the "talent pool" has been watered down courtesy of a public that likes....cave songs. Now then, who took my hair??........HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!      _strat_ wrote:   Lol, Freeze.... What would you do without me? Ok, topics aside, what of talent, writing, singing, musicianship... IDK, many people dont see anything special in the music we listen to. Many people who like those DJs cant appreciate a good guitar solo. Maybe they dont know how to appreciate it? Does that make the virtuoso guitarists that play heavy metal any less good? On the other hand, does the lack of our appreciation fot the DJs make them any less good than they are? What if we arent able to appreciate what they do? There certainly is something to that music. They are not just "putting the records on the turntable and pressing buttons". There is, as in any music a certain amount of skill involved.      Deep Freeze wrote:   Arrrggghh! OK, once again, I will explain myself. (I seem to do that a lot around here)  My comment regarding substance had nothing to do with drugs, love songs or any other particular topic!! Ye GODS!! I was referring to the lack of ability, musicianship and/or talent required to "write" and "sing" such drivel. And moreso when it comes to what passes for Pop/Hip Hop "music". As I have said countless times, the ability to rhyme a series of words in sequence and jump up and down to a "beat" (most often furnished by a recorded sound and NOT a musician)  does NOT make one an "artist", much less a "musician"!!!!!! Further more, just when did it become an "art" to play a record??? I have seen multiple "artists" that claim to be "famous" DJ's. SO FRIGGIN WHAT??!?!?!?  "Oh! Look at me!! I can put a record on a turntable and play it!! WOW!!! I am talented and a musician now!!"  HUH??????? I have complained so many times about the lack of real musical talent in the world and it seems to get worse every year. Musicianship, to me, is actually being able to write music, play an instrument or sing on key! Putting a record on a mechanical device and pushing a button is NOT musicianship!! I did as much in my room at 10 years of age!! Had I any clue then that I was a pioneering artist, I should think I would have grabbed my record player and made my first million!! Little did I know that  the NIMRODS we refer to as the "public" were going to be amazed by such a craft! I missed out on the "pet rock", too.